Posted on 10/03/2011 9:24:36 AM PDT by jesus4life
Amen
Grace and peace to all of you. I am very new to this site. The holy spirit brought me hear tonight to look over many answers here. To learn and to share.
I have questions here if anyone would be kind to take the time out to answer:
1. If we want evil to stop, why do speak of where it is, how to see it, where to see it, and when it may happen?
2. Do we really believe GOD sees all things and will handle all things?
3. If we revere Mary as the mother of GOD, why do we not copy her obedience??
4. If we believe in CHRIST as the son of GOD, who killed no one, loved everyone, and died for all. Why do we worry about dying?? Why do we want to kill others?? Why do we hate others? Why do we want to own land, take over other countries? Why do we want to judge others faith, walk, and lives before they die, knowing that GOD has power to save and can save anyone?
5. Do we believe heaven exists?? If so, where is it for all of you??
The holy spirit brought me to some passages for all of us to think about:
The love of Christ that we should live and show the world LUKE 6:27-36
27 'But I say this to you who are listening: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who treat you badly. 29 To anyone who slaps you on one cheek, present the other cheek as well; to anyone who takes your cloak from you, do not refuse your tunic. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and do not ask for your property back from someone who takes it. 31 Treat others as you would like people to treat you. 32 If you love those who love you, what credit can you expect? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit can you expect? For even sinners do that much. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to get money back, what credit can you expect? Even sinners lend to sinners to get back the same amount. 35 Instead, love your enemies and do good to them, and lend without any hope of return. You will have a great reward, and you will be children of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. 36 'Be compassionate just as your Father is compassionate.
Mary's love, obedience, and acceptance that we should all follow in situations that GOD can handle that we cant
Luke 1:29-39
29 She was deeply disturbed by these words and asked herself what this greeting could mean, 30 but the angel said to her, 'Mary, do not be afraid; you have won God's favour. 31 Look! You are to conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you must name him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David; 33 he will rule over the House of Jacob for ever and his reign will have no end.' 34 Mary said to the angel, 'But how can this come about, since I have no knowledge of man?' 35 The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will cover you with its shadow. And so the child will be holy and will be called Son of God. 36 And I tell you this too: your cousin Elizabeth also, in her old age, has conceived a son, and she whom people called barren is now in her sixth month, 37 for nothing is impossible to God.' 38 Mary said, 'You see before you the Lord's servant, let it happen to me as you have said.' And the angel left her. 39 Mary set out at that time and went as quickly as she could into the hill country to a town in Judah.
OUR LIVES HERE MARK 8:29-38
27 Jesus and his disciples left for the villages round Caesarea Philippi. On the way he put this question to his disciples, 'Who do people say I am?' 28 And they told him, 'John the Baptist, others Elijah, others again, one of the prophets.' 29 'But you,' he asked them, 'who do you say I am?' Peter spoke up and said to him, 'You are the Christ.' 30 And he gave them strict orders not to tell anyone about him. 31 Then he began to teach them that the Son of man was destined to suffer grievously, and to be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and to be put to death, and after three days to rise again; 32 and he said all this quite openly. Then, taking him aside, Peter tried to rebuke him. 33 But, turning and seeing his disciples, he rebuked Peter and said to him, 'Get behind me, Satan! You are thinking not as God thinks, but as human beings do.' 34 He called the people and his disciples to him and said, 'If anyone wants to be a follower of mine, let him renounce himself and take up his cross and follow me. 35 Anyone who wants to save his life will lose it; but anyone who loses his life for my sake, and for the sake of the gospel, will save it. 36 What gain, then, is it for anyone to win the whole world and forfeit his life? 37 And indeed what can anyone offer in exchange for his life? 38 For if anyone in this sinful and adulterous generation is ashamed of me and of my words, the Son of man will also be ashamed of him when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.'
OUR REAL HOME Revelations 21:1-8 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; the first heaven and the first earth had disappeared now, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride dressed for her husband. 3 Then I heard a loud voice call from the throne, 'Look, here God lives among human beings. He will make his home among them; they will be his people, and he will be their God, God-with-them. 4 He will wipe away all tears from their eyes; there will be no more death, and no more mourning or sadness or pain. The world of the past has gone.' 5 Then the One sitting on the throne spoke. 'Look, I am making the whole of creation new. Write this, "What I am saying is trustworthy and will come true." 6 Then he said to me, 'It has already happened. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give water from the well of life free to anybody who is thirsty; 7 anyone who proves victorious will inherit these things; and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But the legacy for cowards, for those who break their word, or worship obscenities, for murderers and the sexually immoral, and for sorcerers, worshippers of false gods or any other sort of liars, is the second death in the burning lake of sulphur.'
“Authority comes from Jesus Christ, thru the Apostles.... and all their successors”....
It’s the “and” that is troublesome...’who’ determines the successors and what authority was given to them to make those distinctions and by what standard????????
you would do well to educate yourself about what Christians believed in 170ad about “Rome” as you call it, by reading what Irenaeus wrote in a quite appropriate title for you “Against Heresies”.
the memory of St John to Polycarp to Irenaeus was quite fresh and bad old Constantine was another 150 years from coming on the world scene and Protestants were a mere 1,349 years away.
remember my friend, God is not the author of confusion and the devil is the accuser of the brethern.
good night.
sorry, i forgot to mention post #2541.
not according to the Scriptures i read.
but this is what happens when you reject the Apostolic Faith and hold to one’s own personal interpretation. one becomes their own pope and we see the confusion and heresy that follows.
there is a reason Jesus gave us the “pillar of truth”
Your comprehension or misconstruance, is perverse, and betrays a lack of argument, as is your resorting to mere assertions, while the church that supports the truth, which is all the words in 1Tim. 3:15 can be said to mean, is the church of the living God, not the mostly dead church of Rome, and in which division and liberal moral views abound, along with unity in error.
Not.
Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
1 Timothy 2 5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle ( I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
laying on of hands as the Apostles showed them to impart the Holy Spirit.
the Church has been here 2,000 years, sorry to give you the news. rumors that it started in the 16th century are false, just like Joseph Smith saying it was started in the 19th century are false.
“and the gates of hell will not prevail against it”
“ lo I am with you always, even to the end of the world”
if you can’t find people that believe what you do every year from 33ad to the present, you are not a Christian.
Every one of those points can be refuted by Scripture.
And they believe this stuff....
I’m at a loss for words.
hmmm, So the Church was visible in St Paul’s day as he wrote to Timothy, when did it become “invisible”?
But as all good fairy tales go, as the years went on, and pope lists were updated and changed, the "unbroken line of apostolic succession" remained unquestioned. No matter how many times it was tweeked for truth, it managed to remain unquestioned and unexamined by the happy villagers. Tra-la-la. And they all lived happily ever after. Eucharist in one hand and the CCC in the other." The End.
LOL!!!
3. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate.
I'm thinking the last laugh may be on you...According to Irenaeus, which you posted, both Paul and Peter founded the church at Rome and they both handed it over to Linus...
Paul as well as Peter was the 1st pope...According to Irenaeus...
Amen to that...
I need to repeat myself in so short a time, and when you show read response thru, and can actually make an argument in response, then i will reply, by God’s grace.
There is no record in the Bible or elsewhere, of Peter issuing instructions to the diocese of Rome. What an amazing oversight by a supposedly infallible commander-in-chief! In addition to that, Paul wrote to Timothy from Rome.
2 Timothy 4:9-12 - "Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me: For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia. Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry. And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus."
Where was Peter the supposed Bishop of Rome? Again in 2 Timothy Paul is giving instructions to Timothy. If Peter was the Supreme Pontiff of Rome why is Paul writing from Rome with no mention of Peter?
Then there is Irenaeus.
Irenaeus: "The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. . . . . To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus, was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Sorer having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth (SOURCE: Iraeneus Against Heresies, Volume I, Book III, Para 3)
Did you notice that it was Paul who made mention of Linus, not Peter? With no indication of Peter ever being in Rome, nor any indication that Peter in fact was the head of the Apostles there can be no legitimate claim that Peter was the first Pope or that the RC was built on Peter.
And then one more embarrassment for the RCC. In the 1950s Roman Catholic archaeologists discovered a tomb in Jerusalem containing an ossuary—a bone box used in first-century Jewish burials—that bore the engraved name “Simon Bar Jona” (a name by which the apostle Peter is known in the Gospels).
Peter was killed before Paul and he entrusted the episcopate to Linus. Paul was traveling around the Roman Empire and was taken to Rome to be tried as a Roman citizen and he was also killed.
don’t you love the title of the book “Against Heresies”?
shows you people have been attacking the Church since Jesus established it, nothing new under the sun.
it is amazing the depths some go to avoid the facts of history. Irenaeus was writing in the mid second century when it was well known in the Catholic world that Peter founded the church in Rome and was martyred there. what a field day the heretics of the world would have had against Irenaeus if he was putting out RCC propaganda.
Irenaeus was writing against the heretics of his day, he had no way of knowing the various Protestant heretics that would be coming along 1,350 years or so later. and no one can even blame Constatine for all this, it would be another 150 years til he comes on the world scene.
i know it must be hard to read Church history and not find anyone who shares these heresies some follow today until the 16th century.
Thank you. I agree - to God be the glory!
think of it this way, the Catholics of the mid 2nd century were as aware of where St Peter died just as Americans are aware of where Abraham Lincoln died. this was written around 100 years after Peter was martyred, where we are 146 years from Lincoln’s death.
1. James the Lord's brother, bishop of Jerusalem.
2. Cleopas, bishop of Jerusalem.
3. Matthias, who supplied the vacant place in the number of the twelve apostles.
4. Thaddeus, who conveyed the epistle to Augarus.
5. Ananias, who baptized Paul, and was bishop of Damascus.
6. Stephen, the first martyr.
7. Philip, who baptized the eunuch.
8. Prochorus, bishop of Nicomedia, who also was the first that departed, believing together with his daughters.
9. Nicanor died when Stephen was martyred.
10. Timon, bishop of Bostra.
11. Parmenas, bishop of Soli.
12. Nicolaus, bishop of Samaria.
13. Barnabas, bishop of Milan.
14. Mark the evangelist, bishop of Alexandria.
15. Luke the evangelist.
These two belonged to the seventy disciples who were scattered by the offence of the word which Christ spoke, "Except a man eat my flesh, and drink my blood, he is not worthy of me." But the one being induced to return to the Lord by Peter's instrumentality, and the other by Paul's, they were honoured to preach that Gospel on account of which they also suffered martyrdom, the one being burned, and the other being crucified on an olive tree.
16. Silas, bishop of Corinth.
17. Silvanus, bishop of Thessalonica.
18. Crisces (Crescens), bishop of Carchedon in Gaul.
19. Epaenetus, bishop of Carthage.
20. Andronicus, bishop of Pannonia.
21. Amplias, bishop of Odyssus.
22. Urban, bishop of Macedonia.
23. Stachys, bishop of Byzantium.
24. Barnabas, bishop of Heraclea.
25. Phygellus, bishop of Ephesus. He was of the party also of Simon.
26. Hermogenes. He, too, was of the same mind with the former.
27. Demas, who also became a priest of idols.
28. Apelles, bishop of Smyrna.
29. Aristobulus, bishop of Britain.
30. Narcissus, bishop of Athens.
31. Herodion, bishop of Tarsus.
32. Agabus the prophet.
33. Rufus, bishop of Thebes.
34. Asyncritus, bishop of Hyrcania.
35. Phlegon, bishop of Marathon.
36. Hermes, bishop of Dalmatia.
37. Patrobulus, bishop of Puteoli.
38. Hermas, bishop of Philippi.
39. Linus, bishop of Rome.
40. Caius, bishop of Ephesus.
41. Philologus, bishop of Sinope.
(Hippolytus, Book XLIV; ON The Twelve Apostles Where Each OF Them Preached, And Where HE Met His End.)
Did you notice the first Pope listed? Did you also notice that Peter’s name is not even on that list?
Then there is this from the Anti Nicene Fathers.
"Now concerning those bishops which have been ordained in our lifetime, we let you know that they are these:--James the bishop of Jerusalem, the brother of our Lord; upon whose death the second was Simeon the son of Cleopas; after whom the third was Judas the son of James. Of Caesarea of Palestine, the first was Zacchaeus, who was once a publican; after whom was Cornelius, and the third Theophilus. Of Antioch, Euodius, ordained by me Peter; and Ignatius by Paul. Of Alexandria, Annianus was the first, ordained by Mark the evangelist; the second Avilius by Luke, who was also an evangelist. Of the church of Rome, Linus the son of Claudia was the first, ordained by Paul [Anti Nicene Fathers, Volume VII, Book VI, Sec. IV, XLVI)Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James, Ante-Nicene Fathers: Volume VII:]
Papal succession occurrs after a pope's death right? Also, if Linus was bishop of Rome while Peter was alive, that would mean that Linus, not even an Apostle, had Papal supremacy over both Peter and Paul - two living Apostles.
Amen! One of my favorite sections in the Bible:
Elijah on Mount Carmel I Kings 18:
16 So Obadiah went to meet Ahab and told him, and Ahab went to meet Elijah. 17 When he saw Elijah, he said to him, “Is that you, you troubler of Israel?”
18 “I have not made trouble for Israel,” Elijah replied. “But you and your father’s family have. You have abandoned the LORD’s commands and have followed the Baals. 19 Now summon the people from all over Israel to meet me on Mount Carmel. And bring the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal and the four hundred prophets of Asherah, who eat at Jezebel’s table.”
20 So Ahab sent word throughout all Israel and assembled the prophets on Mount Carmel. 21 Elijah went before the people and said, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.”
But the people said nothing.
22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the LORD’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD. The god who answers by fire—he is God.”
Then all the people said, “What you say is good.”
25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire.” 26 So they took the bull given them and prepared it.
Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made.
27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.
30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come here to me.” They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the LORD, which had been torn down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the LORD had come, saying, “Your name shall be Israel.” 32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs[a] of seed. 33 He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, “Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood.”
34 “Do it again,” he said, and they did it again.
“Do it a third time,” he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35 The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench.
36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, LORD, answer me, so these people will know that you, LORD, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.”
38 Then the fire of the LORD fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.
39 When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The LORD—he is God! The LORD—he is God!”
Strange how FACTS seem to emerge just when they are NEEDED..;) I love how that happens!
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