Posted on 09/06/2011 8:15:09 AM PDT by Colofornian
By Marsha West
Here Glenn Beck goes again, claiming he's a Christian, this time at Restoring Courage 2011 — Jerusalem. Glenn gets upset when anyone questions his Christianity. That's weird because he's a Mormon who affirms the official teaching of Mormonism aka the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS). The LDS outright deny many of the essential doctrines of the Christian faith. Moreover, LDS doctrine contradicts what Scripture teaches. So of course there are Christians who feel Beck's not a true follower of Jesus Christ — not the Jesus of the Bible anyway. When his "I'm a Christian" claim is held up to scrutiny Glenn gets his knickers in a knot. At the rally he choked up with emotion and said in an accusatory tone that only Christians question his salvation.
Poor Glenn. He's so misunderstood.
People are wondering, and rightly so, how a Mormon in good standing can also be an evangelical. I mean, Glenn has no plans to leave his church any time soon. Sure, that could change — and hopefully it will. But right now his wagon is hitched to the LDS and he's in it for the long haul.
What many people fail to understand is that Mormonism is a religion. It is not the same religion as Christianity, not even close, yet they say they're Christians. Take the time to study their Doctrine and Covenants and you'll find their beliefs are very different from historic, orthodox Christianity, especially when it comes to the essentials of the faith. Undeniably Mormons have high moral standards as do Christians. Mormons are right up there with evangelicals and Catholics in fighting the culture war. They oppose abortion on demand, same-sex "marriage" and have many of the same cultural concerns as other people of faith do. One thing's for sure: When it comes to fighting the culture war Mormons put their money where their mouth is, whereas a large number of evangelicals and Catholics are more prone to let sleeping dogs lie.
In his article Is Glenn Beck a Christian Matt Slick acquaints us with a few LDS beliefs:
— There is a mother goddess, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
— After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354).
— God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321).
— The Trinity is three separate gods, (James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 35).
— God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22).
— God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516)
The Bible does not teach any of this! It's what the founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith and Mormon prophets taught. What does Scripture really teach? Matt explains:
Christianity, which is based on the Bible, says there is only one God (Isa. 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5); that God is a Trinity of persons, not three gods; that God has always been God (Psalm 90:2); that God knows of no other gods (Is. 44:8); that you cannot become a god (Isa. 43:10); and that God is spirit (John 4:24). This contradicts Mormonism. Therefore, Mormonism is not biblical, and not Christian. If Glen Beck holds to the teachings listed above, then he is not Christian.
All of this begs the question: Why do evangelical leaders choose to team up with a Mormon? More specifically why did historian David Barton of Wall Builders, Attorney Mat Staver of Liberty Counsel, Mike Evans of Jerusalem Prayer Team, and Pastor John Hagee join Glenn at the Restoring Courage rally?
California megachurch pastor Jim Garlow said, "I have interviewed persons who have talked specifically with Glenn about his personal salvation — persons extremely well known in Christianity — and they have affirmed (using language evangelicals understand), 'Glenn is saved,'" Garlow reported. "He understands receiving Christ as savior." (Online source)
David Barton stunned the audience when he went on Live TV and told host Randy Robison (here) that just because Beck attends a Mormon church "doesn't say anything about his personal relationship with Jesus." Which Jesus? The counterfeit Jesus of Mormonism or the Jesus of the Bible? Barton worries that "a lot of people judge Glenn on the label, he's Mormon." He wants us to ignore the Mormon label, says he doesn't care about the label. The host probed: "You believe he's a Christian in every sense of the word?" Without flinching Barton replied, "I do. I have literally watched him pray and hear from the Lord and turn on a dime." He thinks Glenn is hearing from the God of the Bible...but is he, really?
I have a challenge for David Barton: Read Glenn's book The Seven Wonders That Will Change Your Life co-authored with Dr. Keith Ablow. In the book he lays out his "pure personal truth." (In part 2 I'll shed light on Glenn's view of "truth.")
The Lord Jesus said, "You must be born again" (John 3:3, 5, 7, 8, 1 Peter 1:3) to qualify as a Christian. Muslims do not believe Jesus was God, they believe He was the last prophet sent by God. They respect him as much as they respect Abraham, Moses and Muhammad. Are Muslims Christians? No. New Agers are pantheists. For them God is all, all is God. They hold that "Jesus was a highly evolved man who realized his inner divinity — the Christ Consciousness — demonstrating that all men could achieve this." Are they Christians? No.
I am a woman. I can call myself a man, but my DNA proves otherwise.
Recently Larry Klayman, founder of Judicial Watch and Freedom Watch, wrote an article to show his support for Restoring Courage. "So it came to pass," said Klayman who is an evangelical, "that Glenn pulled off a magnificent spectacle, bringing Christians and Jews from all parts of the globe together to show their courage in supporting Israel." (Online source) Glenn also brought many Mormons. Why did Klayman not mention them? If Beck was a Muslim would he have left that out of his article? No, he wouldn't have. What he probably would have said was, "Glenn pulled off a magnificent spectacle, bringing Muslims, Christians and Jews from all parts of the globe together..." Surely Klayman would have included "Muslim" if a Muslim organized and hosted the rally!
Giving Larry Klayman the benefit of the doubt, he probably thinks Mormons are Christians because they have a habit of saying they are. It doesn't help that Christian luminaries such as Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, Bishop Harry Jackson who presides over one of the largest African American churches on the East coast and Jim Garlow (referred to above) stood with him at his 2010 rally in Washington D.C. and as I mentioned earlier, other noted evangelicals stood with him in Israel. These men don't seem to have a problem with the fact that even though Glenn says he's a Christian he remains a member of the LDS Church. As a matter of fact, the tour company he recommended to those attending his big shindig is owned by Mormons. Jack Kinsella went to the Israel event and claims this is something he concealed. In a piece he wrote Stolen Blessings: The LDS Connection he says LDS Travel is "identical in every respect to Voyager Travel, except that LDS Travel makes it clear that it is a Latter Days Saints Church operation." Jack was irked that sincere Christians that took Glenn's advice to use Voyager Travel inadvertently contributed to the advancement of Mormonism.
After all the brouhaha over whether or not Glenn Beck is a Christian I do hope our Christian leaders, some of whom are clergy, others attorneys, will not just take his word for it. I hope they'll dig deep into LDS doctrine to find out what Mormons believe. The Bible warns:
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try [test] the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1John 4:1)
Believers must test to see if LDS teaching is true or false. For example, do the Latter-day Saints really teach that God has a body of flesh and bones as Matt Slick claimed? Let's visit the LDS Gospel Library Gospel Topics to see if it's true or false:
God the Father is the Supreme Being in whom we believe and whom we worship. He is the ultimate Creator, Ruler, and Preserver of all things. He is perfect, has all power, and knows all things. He "has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's" (D&C 130:22). (Bold added.)
Yep, Matt was right.
No doubt some Beck fans will be annoyed that I'm "attacking" their hero. I hope you're annoyed enough to research Mormonism (links below) and to go and look at Scripture to see if what I'm saying here is true.
I must digress for a moment to explain why I'm writing a piece on Glenn Beck. Some of the subjects I cover in my column are politics, the culture war, and religion which include the cults, the occult, and a potpourri of aberrant movements within Christianity. My aim is to unearth unbiblical teaching and bring it to light. The reason I do it is because there's a stunning lack of discernment in Christendom that I find deeply troubling.
For many years I was one of those Christians who blazed my own trail. My belief system was decidedly New Age but I called myself a Christian nonetheless. My worldview was anything but Christian, I was a New Age/gnostic/mystic/mess. I professed Christ, yet I rarely read the Bible and when I did I'd find fault in most of what I read. When my Christian mother challenged me on my goofy beliefs I'd snap back, "You believe what you want I'll believe what I want!" And I believed what I wanted for decades! I won't go into all that was wrong with my beliefs now. I'll just say that I was a very eclectic "Christian." And that's mainly because I was influenced by my friends, most of whom were not Christians, and also by the postmodern culture I grew up in. My mother's death and a nasty divorce were the two events that caused me to reassess my life.
That's a whole other subject, so I'll move on.
Providentially God put me in a job where I met and became friends with true believers. My new friends challenged my esoteric beliefs and urged me to read the works of conservative Christian theologians, philosophers and apologists. They also urged me to find a church, read the Bible and get involved in a Bible study. I took their advice.
Realizing its serious business to be a follower of Jesus Christ, I spent most of my free time trying to sort out what I believed and why I believed it. One of the first books I read was Ray C. Stedman's Authentic Christianity. What an eye-opener that was! Then I moved on to John White's The Cost of Commitment and other books by White. But the book that shook me to my core was R.C. Sproul's The Holiness of God. I highly recommend it.
I also read books on the New Age movement (NAM) written by Christian authors who warned of its dangers. I devoured Kingdom of the Cults by Dr. Walter Martin. There's no doubt reading his books and listening to his audio tapes gave me insight into the cults and the occult.
So, why am I sharing my personal journey? I want readers to know where I'm coming from and why I'm committed to exposing false teachers. When I bring to light false teaching/ teachers/ preachers/church leaders, what Jesus called "ravenous wolves," I do it for one simple reason: Wolves influenced my thinking for many years and the unbiblical beliefs I held prevented me from maturing in my faith.
One of my HUGE regrets is that I influenced those around me with all the New Age/gnostic/pagan/psychobabble I was into. I mean, why not? The beliefs I latched onto seemed right for everyone! (Sounds like Oprah, doesn't it?) In < a href="http://www.emailbrigade.com/331.html">The Purpose Driven dismantling of Christianity, part 1 I call this sort of Christianity "syncretism stew," which is Christianity plus... paganism...mysticism... new revelation...signs & wonders...Jungian psychology...man-centered self-esteem... Twelve-steps...universalism (all roads lead to God)... and, thanks to Rick Warren, global peace. This concoction may sound nourishing, but it causes spiritual malnutrition!
Those who believe God enlightens some and not others and that they have some sort of secret knowledge have been drawn into the heresy that the early church faced and defeated, namely gnosticism. Once again the Gnostic Gospel has reared its ugly head.
Christianity never has been nor is it now meant to be some sort of esoteric experience. And besides, going down that road leads to spiritual pride. Authentic Christianity entails a daily walk with the Lord Jesus Christ and obedience to his commands. (John 14:15) It is that simple. The only way we can truly know God is through what He has revealed to us in the Bible. If the Bible is not true, if it is just a book of myths and fables as some say it is, if it's not the way God reveals who He is and His ways to us anyone can claim to have the indisputable truth about God.
Stay tuned for Part 2 ... You'll discover Glenn Beck's "pure persona truth."
Recommended Reading:
Beliefs and practices of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — Wikipedia
The "God" of Glenn Beck — By Ken Silva
How to be right with God — "What must I do to be saved?" — By David Wheaton
Audio:
Evangelicals and Glenn Beck's New Age Mormonism — VCY America radio broadcast hosted by Brannon Howse, 2/28/11
Video:
Glenn Beck's (ecumenical) "Restoring Courage" speech from Israel
Mormon Beliefs:
Quote from LDS.org: And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God [LDS], and the other is the church of the devil [Christendom]; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. 1 Nephi, 14:10 Book of Mormon
Quote from LDS.org: LDS Church President Lorenzo Snow expressed the nature of the Father in his couplet, "As man is, God once was — and as God is, man may become."
Salvation:
[A]s the Agent of the Father and Judge of all, Christ is able to be both merciful and just (John 5:22; Romans 2:16). To obtain His mercy, or be saved from His wrath, or indigation [sic], on the day of judgment, men and women must (1) have faith in Christ, (2) repent of their sins, (3) be baptized by one of His authorized agents in water in the likeness of His burial, to come forth born again of the Spirit, (4) receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, again by an authorized servant of God bearing His priesthood, and (5) endure in faith in Christ and repentance from sins to the end of their mortal lives. (Online Source)
After Death:
The nature of that body...will depend on the result of the Last Judgment, at which Jesus will assign each soul to one of three degrees of glory (heavenly kingdoms): the celestial kingdom in the presence of the Father and the Son for those who accept Jesus Christ and receive all LDS saving ordinances, either as a mortal or by proxy; the terrestrial kingdom, a place of glory in the presence of Christ for righteous persons who refuse to receive the saving ordinances and for those who do not keep the covenants they commit to; and the telestial kingdom for the wicked. A further destination, called outer darkness, is reserved for Satan, his devils, and those mortals who commit the unpardonable sin and thereby become the sons of perdition.[61] Those who are ultimately destined for the telestial kingdom will be those who suffer for their sins in hell; however, these persons remain in hell only the 1000 years during the millennial reign of Christ, after which they will exit hell and be resurrected with an immortal body into a state of peace. (Online Source)
© Marsha West
Titus 1:10-13 “For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group. They must be silenced, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain. One of Crete’s own prophets has said it: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.” This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith.”
Acts 20:28-31 “Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard!”
Because someone who believes in Jesus Christ would have immediately accepted the observation that Jesus wouldn’t have engaged in this forum.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
The pharisees said somethiong like that about jesus ...
It went...
When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.” Luke 7:30
When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the “sinners” and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and ‘sinners’?” Mark 2:16
Because someone who believes in Jesus Christ would have immediately accepted the observation that Jesus wouldn’t have engaged in this forum.
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“Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked dila813
Then stop presuming that people are motivated by "hate"; 'cause when you do, "that is an evil practice...you are judg"[ing] them as hateful (& executing them for it)...and guess what? (It "isn't very Jesus Like.")
Time to start abiding by your own words and start practicing what you preach.
Stop accusing others of presuming/assuming while doing that all thru this thread.
Stop accusing others of being judgmental while you've consistently judged others on this thread.
celibate with glee
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was that meant as a slur against the LORD Jesus Christ and Christian belief ???
and No He was not married or a polygamist...
and he had no children
and Joey Smith the founder of Mormonism was NOT a direct descendant of the LORD Jesus Christ...
Just as I have told everyone to ask Glen Beck.
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Have you told Glenn Beck to ask Jimmy Hoffa Jr if he was drunk or not ???
Or is it OK with you for Beck to judge other people ???
Have you rushed to the defense of Hoffa ???
or must he break down and cry first ???
Yet when many on this thread have questioned whether Beck is truly a Christian based upon his many statements you have rebuked me and others. Why won't you grant us the same freedom you grant yourself to question other’s faith?
Doesn't that seem like hypocrisy?
And it was not mind reading (making it personal) since it expressed the poster's mind and not yours. However, when personal remarks dominate a thread it is "making it personal" by making the thread "about" an individual Freeper.
This thread has become "about" you, and I have let it continue because you are new to the Religion Forum and evidently have a few questions or issues about the modding of it.
But enough is enough.
All of you: it is time to return to the issues and drop the ad hominems.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
See post 588.
What many people fail to understand is that Mormonism is a religion. It is not the same religion as Christianity, not even close, yet they say they’re Christians.
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OK time for this again...
Mormonism is NOT Christianity
The foul practice of polygamy is not part of Christianity..
Idol worship of the pagan Joey Smith is not part of Christianity...
Multiple gods are not part of Christianity...
A non-virgin Mary is not part of Christianity...
Only males going to Heaven is not part of Christianity...
Males becoming gods is not part of Christianity...
Males ruling their own planet is not part of Christianity...
A priesthood system as practiced by the mormons is not part of Christianity
Women as sex slaves in a harem is not part of Christianity...
Women having babies forever is not part of Christianity...
Women being called from their graves by husbands who decide the woman’s fate is not part of Christianity...
Degradation of women through adultery and so called “celestial marriage” is not part of Christianity...
Three levels of Heaven is not part of Christianity
Sex in Heaven is not part of Christianity…
Men marrying their mother-in-law is not part of Christianity…
Men marrying their daughter-in-law is not part of Christianity..
Men marrying their wife’s sister is not part of Christianity
Special underwear are not part of Christianity..
Special ceremony clothes are not part of Christianity…
Joey Smith deciding who gets into Heaven is not part of Christianity...
Joey Smith as the savior is not part of Christianity...
Recognizing and worshipping the blasphemous Joey Smith is not part of Christianty...
Dead dunking is not part of Christianity...
The idol on top of the mormon temples is not part of Christianity...
The mormon temples are not part of Christianity...
Gathering in “zion” whether its in Missouri or Utah is not part of Christianity...
The return of the mormon jesus to Missouri is not part of Christianity...
The belief that the garden of Eden was in Missouri is not part of Christianity...
People living on the sun and the moon is not part of Christianity...
The belief that the mormon jesus visited Central America is not part of Christianity...
Freemasonry as practiced by the mormons is not part of Christianity...
Endowments are not part of Christianity...
The book of mormon is not part of Christianity
The tall tales of Joey Smith are not part of Christianity
Mythical ancient civilizations in Central America are not part of Christianity
The so called “visions” and false prophecies of Joey Smith are not part of Christianity
The mormon Mary having sex with one of the mormon gods is not part of Christianity...
The absence of a cross on a building is not part of Christianity
Pagan and Freemasonry symbols on a building are not part of Christianity
“Going through the temple” is not part of Christianity...
The denial that Jesus is God is not part of Christianity...
The denial that the Holy Ghost is God is not part of Christianity...
The denial of the Trinity is not part of Christianity...
The belief that the mormon god was once a man is not part of Christianity
The belief that the mormon god was a polygamist is not part of Christianity...
The belief that the mormon jesus was a polygamist is not part of Christianity...
The belief that monogamy...one man, one woman...is prostitution is not part of Christianity...
The belief that David went to Hell forever is not part of Christianity.
The belief that David will not be in Heaven is not part of Christianity….
Paying tithes to be saved is not part of Christianity......
Works to be saved is not part of Christianity
Being a member of the mormon corporation is not part of Christianity...
The mormon jesus sweating in the Garden of Gethsemane for “atonement” is not part of Christianity...
The insulting, degrading, blasphemous false religion of mormonism is not Christianity...
I have never stopped MORMONS from practicing their own religion..
They are free to do so...
I do however state once again for the record...
Mormonism is NOT Christianity...
And if that’s considered “nasty” and “insulting” to Glenn Beck and the other Mormons, I’m in good company...
Because I’m just agreeing with the God of the Christian Bible...
King James Version included...
Heads up Els
The number is fast approaching
:)
This is discernment, which the Bible says we are called to exercise. What? Have you been failing to exercise Biblical discernment? Have you been disobeying our Lord?
If you have a pre-teen or teen daughter asking about a couple living together next door, you have a couple of choices: (a) You could inject morality into the discussion -- knowing that you're not just talking about this couple but also choices your daughter will one day make; or (b) You could avoid making any "moral judgment" on the couple because you perceive that as "judging" another & that's "God's" role to do that.
I would say those parents who practice (b) vs. (a) tend to -- over the long run -- have more children who wind up cohabitating than the (a) category. Why? Because they failed to practice discernment and export it to the next generation. Instead, they opted for a licentious live-and-let live lifestyle...at least in how they parented their kids.
Now, I'm not saying the above dynamics may not also fall into stereotyping. But there's an interesting thing about many stereotypes: They often are either true, mostly true, or partially true.
If you find out somebody lives in a certain neighborhood, yes, you may not actually know if they live in a mansion or a shack. But if they live in a neighborhood that's beyond an upscale neighborhood in an elite area, guess what? Your "stereotype" exercise of discernment about the material well-being of a given person is likely to be on the mark.
What you, Dila, seem to be advocating on this thread -- is that if you find out a person lives in a neighborhood full of mansions, that we are to presume this person is not wealthy because that would be "judging."
People make stereotypes about others all the time:
About die-hard sports fans
About avid Obama supporters
About gun supporters
About pacifists and war protesters
We all operate under many "identities" fused into one:
We are parents, children, siblings, employees/employers, fraternal club members, sports fans of certain teams, community & neighborhood residents, with family school ties, cause catalysts, political party members, FREEPERS & church members.
Each of those identities elicits certain characteristics. Some university sports teams, for example, if their state has no pro teams, tend to elicit an almost extreme fanatical following. While those fans are present with all/most university teams in that same sport, frankly some cultures produce more of an almost "cult-like" following than others. That is an observation that is generally true of certain cultures -- but obviously not necessarily true of everyone living in that culture.
So stereotyping can devolve into overgeneralizations that are not true of all. Indeed, assumptions that are true for many, but not for all.
Your assumptions, Dila, work the other way. Your assumptions are tantamount to assuming/presuming that somebody living in one of those non-pro-team states isn't affected by that culture. That is a way-off-the-mark assumption.
The fact is that Beck lives in a Mormon culture; he is bathed in it like most Mormons. And while it's true that Utah Mormons are even more "die-hard" in living & breathing a more concentrated culture than non-Utah Mormons, for you to presume they don't "catch" that culture is quite a presumption on your part.
I addressed this three months ago in a post. Here's what I said then:
Sorry, but if Sarah Palin became a temple Mormon...
...someone who believes they are a "god-in-embryo" enroute to becoming a full-grown god who will be worshiped and prayed to and steal glory from the One and Only true God...
...at that point in your hypothetical she would become an idolatrous glory-hound depicting a tremendous lack of discernment and galloping gullibility.
Sorry. But in your hypothetical I wouldn't vote for someone who thinks the White House is just a career stop on their way to a great White Throne to be worshiped and glorified [and competing with the One True God for such honor and praise.]
No, I told you to ask Beck directly just as I have asked of you
You presuppose Beck. You know the difference, you must stop pretending that you don’t know.
What can you expect from MORMONs?
I don’t know what you are talking about....where did Jimmy Hoffa come from?
I am talking about the electronic lynching.
We have an electronic version of people taking the corpse of a man and parading it in the streets.
Evidence WAS provided.
It was dismissed as irrelevant.
How about crankery that ISN'T obsessive?
That is what this entire thread was about, HATE ... lets get that Mormon Guy, he has got too big for his own britches.
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