My Faith: Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN), from Catholic to Muslim

CNN ^ | 9/1/11 | Chris Welch

[marshmallow]

Minneapolis, Minnesota (CNN) –Prior to 2006, few people even knew that then-Minnesota state legislator Keith Ellison was a Muslim. Because of his English name, he said, no one thought to ask.

But five years ago, when he ran for a seat in the United States House of Representatives - a race he would go on to win - word of his religious affiliation began to spread.

“When I started running for Congress it actually took me by surprise that so many people were fascinated with me being the first Muslim in Congress,” said Ellison, a Democrat now serving his third term in the House.

“But someone said to me, ‘Look Keith, think of a person of Japanese origin running for Congress six years after Pearl Harbor–this might be a news story.’”

Though Ellison's status as the first Muslim elected to Congress is widely known, fewer are aware that he was born into a Catholic family in Detroit and was brought up attending Catholic schools.

But he said he was never comfortable with that faith.

“I just felt it was ritual and dogma,” Ellison said. “Of course, that’s not the reality of Catholicism, but it’s the reality I lived. So I just kind of lost interest and stopped going to Mass unless I was required to.”

It wasn’t until he was a student at Wayne State University in Detroit when Ellison began, “looking for other things.”

[Mad Dawg]

Circularity again, IMHO. If one assumes that the Spirit does not baptize by means of water, why then one finds that water Baptism and Spirit baptism are different.

When you cook, do you use heat or a stove?

[vladimir998]

You asked: “Where in Scripture does Paul talk about water baptism for remission of sins?”

Titus 3:5 and I assume that St. Paul told Luke about Acts 22:16. Also, Romans 6:3-4.

[Judith Anne]

The more I read about Paul from you, the more he starts to sound like all y’all’s leader, Quix, and the less he sounds like a follower of Christ.

Paul’s Gospel? Please! There is one gospel, the gospel of Christ, given to His Church.

[MarkBsnr]

You asked: “Where in Scripture does Paul talk about water baptism for remission of sins?” Titus 3:5 and I assume that St. Paul told Luke about Acts 22:16. Also, Romans 6:3-4.

Very good and thank you. It is endlessly fascinating to find the magnitude of difference between what the Paulicians believe of Paul and what Paul actually says.

[vladimir998]

metmom,

You’re being intellectually dishonest here. No one believed in OSAS until the 16th century. Many Protestants still don’t believe in it. So, to say this - “When you point out that it’s the very same Paul who repeatedly tells us that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, meaning OSAS, it’s *Paul who?*” - can be nothing but intellectually dishonest.

It is Protestants who have a “Cafeteria style Bible interpretation” problem. They cut books out of the Bible. We didn’t. Some go so far as to refuse to teach the gospels because they believe the real gospel message is ONLY in St. Paul! There was a Moody Bible prof who did exactly that and he wasn’t the only one. Catholics believe and teach the whole Bible. We keep St. Paul in perspective with all the rest of scriptures while Protestants ignore other verses.

[Iscool]

So the repeated Scriptural exhortation that baptism is for the remission of sins is a lie? Interesting. Your cult's departure from Christianity would be fascinating to document

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

You see any baptism in there??? Of course you don't...

A little bible study by anyone, even a Catholic, will reveal that baptism may or may not be present when the Holy Spirit is given and salvation takes place...

The same little study will reveal that Repentance is always present when the Holy Spirit indwells the believer...

And BTW, there is no scriptural exortation that water baptism is for the remission of sins...

Why do you constantly pervert God's scripture???

[CynicalBear]

One can simply take the foundation for the Catholic belief that Mary is the woman in Revelation 12 as proof that she is bodily in heaven to see that they are in error. The woman in Revelation 12 is the nation of Israel and not Mary.

On and on one can show that much of the Catholic Church dogma is built on error and mysticism. Speculation and conjecture are rampant in their theology and doctrine.

[Iscool]

We are told that at Paul’s conversion, “he rose and was baptized, and took food and was strengthened. For several days he was with the disciples at Damascus” (Acts 9:18–19). This was a water baptism. In Romans 6 and Colossians 2, Paul reminds his readers of their water baptisms, and he neither says nor implies anything about some sort of “invisible spiritual baptism.”More cluelessness...There is no water mentioned anywhere...

Joh 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

These are just some of the scriptures...Obviously you think this baptized and filled with the Spirit stuff is plain junk...

You might want to notice that without this indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you will have no Christian wisdom or revelation from the scriptures...

You will have no understanding...Nor will you know the power of God...And you're certainly not a born again Christian...Not without the Spirit of God within you...

You ought to be tremblin' in your boots right about now...

[Not gonna take it anymore]

“Now, can a Christian “backslide” into a sinful way of life? Yes, they can and some do, but it is not a denial of their faith rather it is a case of taking our eyes off Christ and slipping into the deep. But God is never going to forsake us or lose us or cast us out, he will always be drawing us back to him ready to forgive and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. No sin is so grave that cannot be forgiven by a merciful and gracious God.

And, in anticipation of your next challenge, if a Christian dies in a state of unconfessed sin, will he STILL go to heaven? The answer is YES. We are not saved by our good works and sinless living and that means we are not kept saved by those same deeds. God is THAT merciful. What a Savior we have!!! “

So you believe in once saved always saved? Do all your fellow non-Catholic posters here believe the same?

The first person to espouse the idea of “once saved, always saved” was John Calvin in the mid-sixteenth century. Even Martin Luther didn’t subscribe to the theory. Prior to Calvin, the unanimous consent of the early Christians was that a person is capable of losing his salvation by committing mortal sin, as John spoke about in 1 John 5:16–17.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0203sbs.asp

So when nothing unclean can go to Heaven, what does that mean? Rev. 21:27

[Iscool]

I do not understand how this very Scriptural doctrine ever got so perverted from its true meaning,

I believe it's been just recently where the Catholic religion started accepting baptisms from some Protestant churches...

Prior to that, anything other than a Catholic baptism was illegitimate...And of course it had to be water baptism...That way, the Catholic religion had control...Catholic holy water...

With a Spiritual baptism, Catholicism loses control...

[Iscool]

God made man and in light of her preservation from sin

Pure fable...

[Iscool]

When did He speak of baptism for the remission of sins?

Mark 16:16.

Mark 16:16 says exactly the opposite of what you falsely claim it says...

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

He that does not believe but is still baptized is DAMNED...

[Iscool]

You asked: “Where in Scripture does Paul talk about water baptism for remission of sins?”

Titus 3:5 and I assume that St. Paul told Luke about Acts 22:16. Also, Romans 6:3-4.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Nope...Washing does not automatically mean water baptism...In fact it is not regeneration by washing...It is washing from the regeneration...

The regeneration does the washing, the cleansing...And regeneration comes ONLY from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit...The Spiritual Baptism...

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord

No water here...Wash does not mean water any more than baptism means water...No soap mentioned at all...

Water baptism does not wash away any sin...Repentance which is turning to Jesus and then calling on His name and trusting in His shed blood is the only thing that cleans us from sin...

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Water doesn't appear in the verse...Baptism does not mean water...Baptism means immersion...And in this case, it is immersion into Jesus Christ...

We are in Christ and He in us...And the He is us is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit...The Spiritual Baptism...

[Iscool]

You’re being intellectually dishonest here. No one believed in OSAS until the 16th century. Many Protestants still don’t believe in it. So, to say this - “When you point out that it’s the very same Paul who repeatedly tells us that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, meaning OSAS, it’s *Paul who?*” - can be nothing but intellectually dishonest.

The Apostle Paul believed it, and he taught it...So I believe it as well...

There are far too many verses that tell us we have salvation, now, to reject the idea...You have to dump a lot of scripture to come to your conclusion...

We keep St. Paul in perspective with all the rest of scriptures while Protestants ignore other verses.

You guys can't even discuss a lot of scripture because you don't believe it means what it says, and then you don't know what it means either...

You'd do far better to just believe what you read and accept that your system is very flawed...

[Iscool]

The first person to espouse the idea of “once saved, always saved” was John Calvin in the mid-sixteenth century.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The Apostle John says you are wrong...You wanna try again???

[smvoice]

Exactly right, Iscool. It's about power and money. The "richer" a religious institution is, the more "works" are included for "salvation". What can be profitable about "free gift", "not by works of righteousness that we have done", "Sealed unto the day of redemption", "Saved from the wrath to come", etc.? With freedom in Christ comes freedom from works for righteousness. And no religious institution can afford to have free people. Who is going to support those Cathedrals, all those works of art, THE RED PRADA COLLECTION FOR PETE'S SAKE..

It is about power.

[Natural Law]

"No true student of the Bible dismisses the hermeneutical principle of context as well as audience and relation to other Scripture passages."

You must have missed my point where I stated that Scripture does not contradict Scripture. I stated that if it appears to contradict the flaw is on our interpretation of one or all of Scripture.

(And, for the record do you not consider the Episcopacy of the Catholic Church to be comprised of persons other than "true students of the Bible"?)

[Natural Law]

"Yeah, I noticed that Paul, the loon and crackpot and mentally unbalanced one, suddenly rates when they have a doctrine they want to support from Scripture (for a change)"

That is a completely uncalled for characterization of Catholics. I know of only one Catholic poster who has expressed that idea and she clearly and repeatedly presents it as her own and not that of the Church. To suggest otherwise is dishonest and sinful.

The facts remain that St. Paul is venerated by the Church. He must not used to make mendacious assaults on anyone.

[smvoice]

Amen, Iscool. It's a real shame that people cannot read the word of God as it is written, not as they assume it says, or that they were told by their "expert" it says, but just as it says. Water means water. And Spirit means Spirit. A water baptism is NOT a baptism by the Holy Spirit. There is ONE BODY< ONE FAITH>ONE BAPTISM now, according to Eph.4:4-6. It does not say two baptisms, one with water and one by the Holy Spirit, it does not say three baptisms, an extra one added just in case a person wasn't "properly" baptized by the RCC. It says ONE.

When did THIS happen? And what changed to make it now ONE BAPTISM BY the HOLY SPIRIT INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST?

In the ministry of Paul, where water baptism is NEVER required for the remission of sins. NEVER> Obviously, another commission was replacing the commission given to Peter and the 11 before Christ's ascension.

It is SIGNIFICANT that while Paul did baptize some, and mention this in his first letter to the Corinthians, he states that he is GLAD he baptized so few, adding that Christ sent him NOT to baptize, but to preach the gospel. The preaching of the Cross. 1 Cor. 1:17,18.

It is the preaching of the Cross, the shedding of Christ's blood for our remission of sins that Paul preached, the commission that was given TO HIM BY JESUS CHRIST. It wasn't about WATER, it was about the BLOOD OF CHRIST. Need more proof?

Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles and the minister of the body of Christ NEVER in any of his letters, commands, or even exhorts us to be baptized with water. NEVER ONCE.

Peter and the 11 could NEVER have said that. Because their commission included Repent and be baptized..for the remission of sins.

Something changed between Peter and the 11's commission and Paul's commission. It's called the Dispensation of the grace of God. And it has to do with the Cross. And the shedding of Christ's blood FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.

[Natural Law]

"Hello....... vinegar can be made from wine when it ferments, or *sours*. Ever hear of *sourdough* bread? Natural fermenting process."

Duh, I am familiar with the chemistry (my MS is in Chemistry). Vinegar (acetic acid) is produced when the ethanol in wine is oxidized back to acetaldehyde (CH3CHO - the stuff that gives you headaches), and then the acetaldehyde is converted to acetic acid. This is accomplished through oxidation or bacterial contamination.

In most cases the quality of a wine is determined by the amount of acetaldehyde present. Bottling too early or too late will both produce bad wine. Since acetaldehyde is a volatile compound the quality of a wine can be improved by letting it "breathe" before drinking.

All of that aside, the sour wine referred to was not vinegar. Vinegar is a desired end product. Sour wine is just bad wine that has been exposed to the air too long.