Posted on 08/18/2011 7:18:16 AM PDT by marshmallow
So why is the seal of confession inviolable? Why does the seal bind under such a grave obligation that the Church excommunicates any confessor who directly violates it? (See: The seal of confession: some basics)
There are two principal reasons why the priest must preserve the seal: the virtue of justice and the virtue of religion. The motive of justice is evident because the penitent, by the very fact of entering the confessional, or asking the priest to hear his confession (we’ll deal with “reconciliation rooms” another day) rightly expects that the priest will observe the seal. This is a contract entered into by the fact of the priest agreeing to hear a person’s confession. To mandate the violation of the seal is in effect to prohibit the celebration of the sacrament of Penance.
Much more grave than the obligation of justice towards the penitent is the obligation of religion due to the sacrament. The Catholic Encyclopaedia gives a brief explanation of the virtue of religion which essentially summarises the teaching of St Thomas Aquinas. (Summa Theologica 2a 2ae q.81) Religion is a moral virtue by which we give to God what is His due; it is, as St Thomas says, a part of justice. In the case of the sacrament of Penance, instituted by Christ, Fr Felix Cappello explains things well [my translation]:
By the very fact that Christ permitted, nay ordered, that all baptised sinners should use the sacrament and consequently make a secret confession, he granted an absolutely inviolable right, transcending the order of natural justice, to use this remedy. Therefore the knowledge which was their own before confession, after the communication made in confession, remains their own for every non-sacramental use, and that by a power altogether sacred, which no contrary human law can strike out, since every human law is of an inferior order: whence this right cannot be taken away or overridden by any means, or any pretext, or any motive.
The penitent confesses his sins to God through the priest. If the seal were to be broken under some circumstances, it would put people off the sacrament and thereby prevent them from receiving the grace that they need in order to repent and amend their lives. It would also, and far more importantly, obstruct the will of God for sinners to make use of the sacrament of Penance and thereby enjoy eternal life. The grace of the sacrament is absolutely necessary for anyone who commits a mortal sin. To mandate the violation of the seal is in effect to prohibit the practice of the Catholic faith. Some secular commentators have spoken of the seal of confession as being somehow a right or privilege of the priest. That is a preposterous misrepresentation: it is a sacred and inviolable duty that the priest must fulfil for the sake of the penitent and for the sake of God's will to redeem sinners.
A possibly misleading phrase in this context is where theologians say that the penitent is confessing his sins as if to God "ut Deo." (You can easily imagine secularists deriding the idea that the priest makes himself to be a god etc.) In truth, the penitent is confessing his sins before God. The priest acts as the minister of Christ in a sacred trust which he may not violate for any cause - precisely because he is not in fact God. By virtue of the penitent’s confession ut Deo, the priest absolves the penitent and, if mortal sin is involved, thereby readmits him to Holy Communion.
There will be more to follow on the sacrament of confession. As I mentioned in my previous post, this series is not intended as a guide for making a devout confession but rather as an introduction to some canonical and theological questions regarding the sacrament which have become important recently. (For a leaflet on how to make a good confession, see my parish website.)
I have been told that the threat in Ireland to introduce a law compelling priests to violate the seal of confession has been withdrawn, at least for the time being. Nevertheless, I will continue with these posts because I think that the Irish proposal will be picked up by other secularists and may pose a problem for us. Further posts will look at the proper place, time and vesture for hearing confessions, one or two more particular crimes in canon law, the question of jurisdiction and the much misused expression “Ecclesia supplet”, and, of course, what to do if the civil authority tries to compel a priest to break the seal.
How is taking God at His word, not honoring to Him?
I included truly or sufficiently because taking Him at His word could, or should, mean loving our enemies, for example, or visiting those in prison, loving our neighbor as our self, forgiving those who trespass us, loving God with all our heart, soul, mind, strength…
This was my thinking in positing: how you do (or can) know you have truly (or sufficiently) "honored God by taking Him at His word"?
Across 2000 years, dozens of languages and a cultural chasm unfathomable by "every farmhand and milkmaid"?........right. The reality of the situation does not match your rhetoric.
If they are so clearly understood why are there so many, many interpretations of those clearly understood letters? Why is it that the disagreements over their meanings have resulted in the murder of tens of millions of alleged "Christians" by other Christians. Why are there an ever increasing number of denominations who disagree over issues of interpretation doctrine and dogma?
The rejection of a teaching authority has only resulted in a Balkanization of Christianity that worsens every day. Hell, even so-called educated and tolerant modern American Christians who frequent these forums almost come to blows over the actual meanings of these "clearly understandable" letters.
Hey, Catholics think that Joseph was celibate though married.
All those poor Catholic men. Their ideal is to be married in a sexless marriage.
Hopefully this will resolve all the double talk. They have never repudiated their council of Trent.
Canon 9. If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.
We can always dig up more but why bother when one illustrates the point. Their house of cards is built on sacrementalism and claims of infallibility. If we are saved by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in Christ Alone then they have no power.
Why shouldn't someone be given a "word of knowledge". I don't know how one can think about this stuff. Believe or not, I guess.
That is an excellent litmus test.
Kenneth Hagin.
This guy and many other so called leaders are some of the worst of the bunch, but even more troubling is the masses of undiscerning ignoramuses who blindly follow him and don’t search out the Scriptures for themselves.
I added nothing, Sweet Pea.
English Standard Version (©2001)
to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
International Standard Version (©2008)
to be a minister of the Messiah Jesus to the gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering brought by gentiles may acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
to be a servant of Christ Jesus to people who are not Jewish. I serve as a priest by spreading the Good News of God. I do this in order that I might bring the nations to God as an acceptable offering, made holy by the Holy Spirit.
Bible in Basic English
To be a servant of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, doing the work of a priest in the good news of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles might be pleasing to God, being made holy by the Holy Spirit.
Weymouth New Testament
that I should be a minister of Christ Jesus among the Gentiles, doing priestly duties in connection with God's Good News so that the sacrifice--namely the Gentiles--may be acceptable to Him, being (as it is)
Young's Literal Translation
for my being a servant of Jesus Christ to the nations, acting as priest in the good news of God, that the offering up of the nations may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
Spot on Iscool! Unfortunately only the truly saved will even understand what you just said. Separating the spiritual and carnal is foreign to the unsaved. Oh that we could just convince them but it isn’t up to us. We can only proclaim the truth of the gospel.
MD: “I think metmom’s history is undeniable.”
I agree. I’ve posted to her that I regret that it happened.
I grew up in Protestantism and in a dysfunctional, impoverished-by-the Depression household.
I chose to become Catholic. I don’t have have any desire-— nor do I need— to put blame on my Protestant roots.
Didn’t Our Lord say “Behold I make all things new”? Doesn’t St. Paul say “the man who is in Christ Jesus is a new creation”? Aren’t we told that “when we put our hand to the plow we are not to look back”?
The Lord has made me anew-—He has made of me a new creation. I now look—not back—but forward to the “goal line, to finishing the race”.
MD: “And these impressions can be virtually indelible”. Yes-—if one considers them SOLELY from the current psychological positions and understandings.
But again-—”all things are possible to God” and we can ask for a healing of our memories and as the man said to Jesus: “Master, you can heal me if You want to”.
MD: “this kind can only be driven out by prayer and fasting”
So true, MD. This is what Our Lord showed us in the hours of His temptation from the devil for 40 days.
We are told by Him to “fast and pray” that we might not enter into temptation.
Sometimes, always “going back” could be a temptation.
Well, some of the boorish crones we encounter on these threads make that thought completely understandable.
Oh my!! Nice catch Iscool! Obviously we even need to check the very text they use on a consistent basis. Have we asked what version of scripture was used? Are they even being deceived at that level?
That's not a nice thing to say about their Catholic wives.
Is this a textual issue or a translation issue? It’s not just the NAB that has the “priestly” stuff in it, but I’m a little at sea in the KOINE since all by books are currently packed up.
NOPE.
Hagin himself was rather close to being strictly Biblical.
He may have overemphasized here and there but mostly he was strictly Biblical. I’ve listened to many many dozens of hours of his stuff.
Kenneth Copeland is probably his healthiest disciple.
I wouldn’t give much for Hagin’s son nor the bulk of the rest of the ‘disciples.’
Lots of things get twisted and distorted the 2nd generation.
Look at the RCC on that score!
SCRIPTURE IS SCRIPTURE. GOD’S WORD MEANS WHAT IT SAYS.
At some point, folks are not arguing with Hagin but with Scripture.
Yeah, the pack has over-emphasized stuff here and there.
Nevertheless, the BIBLE SAYS SUCH THINGS RATHER PLAINLY AND STARKLY. And folks who don’t fulfill their side of it can’t expect to get the results God says the should get.
Further—there is no pat formula that will work in all cases.
Further—God does His own thing with individuals on occasion as Job illustrates.
You may forget that
GOD HONORED HAGIN’S FAITH AND HAGIN’S BIBLICAL UNDERSTANDING
raising Hagin up from the deathbed himself
as well as blessing 10’s of thousands through his ministry with
HOLY SPIRIT SIGNS FOLLOWING.
THOSE PEOPLE will NEVER be convinced that Hagin was anything but a man of God.
THOSE WITH AN EXPERIENCE ARE NEVER AT THE MERCY OF THOSE WITH MERELY AN OPINION.
There, fixed it for you.
λειτουργὸν leitourgon. Although Strong’s is not infallible it translates this as (3011) “a minister, servant, of an official character; of priests and Levites”. Barnes Notes on the Bible has this to say about it:
“This is not the word which is commonly translated "minister" διάκονος diakonos. This word is properly appropriated to those who minister in public offices or the affairs of the state. In the New Testament it is applied mainly to the Levitical priesthood, who ministered and served at the altar; Hebrews 11:11. It is however applied to the ministers of the New Testament, as discharging "substantially" the same offices toward the church which were discharged by the Levitical priesthood; that is, as engaged in promoting the welfare of the church, occupied in holy things, etc.; Acts 13:2, "as they "ministered" to the Lord and fasted," etc. It is still used in a larger sense in Romans 15:27; 2 Corinthians 9:12.”
Further:
“Ministering - ἱερουργοῦντα hierourgounta. Performing the function of a priest in respect to the gospel of God.” The office of a "priest" was to offer sacrifice. Paul here retains the "language"”.
The original word used in that verse means ministering “like the Priests used to do”. Paul here retains the “language,” though without affirming or implying that the ministers of the New Testament were literally “priests” to offer sacrifice. If you literally take the meaning of the word you would have to be Jewish and the Priest would literally have to offer sacrifices. Paul was talking about the Gentiles offering themselves like the Priests used to offer a sacrifice. But assuredly he did not mean that the offerings of the Gentiles were “literal” sacrifices to expiate sins; nor did he mean that there was to be an order of men who were to be called “priests” under the New Testament. The words “as a priest” should really not be included as without explanation it gives an erroneous meaning to the text. One more reason to stay as close as possible to the KJV or cross reference with Greek.
Read more here: http://bible.cc/romans/15-16.htm
3 John 1:2
is STILL GOD’S UNALTERABLE, THOROUGHLY TRUE, THOROUGHLY APPLICABLE WORD:
New International Version (©1984)
Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Dear friend, I hope all is well with you and that you are as healthy in body as you are strong in spirit.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.
International Standard Version (©2008)
Dear friend, I pray that you are doing well in every way and that you are healthy, just as your soul is healthy.
GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Dear friend, I know that you are spiritually well. I pray that you’re doing well in every other way and that you’re healthy.
King James Bible
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
American King James Version
Beloved, I wish above all things that you may prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers.
American Standard Version
Beloved, I pray that in all things thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
Bible in Basic English
My loved one, it is my prayer that you may do well in all things, and be healthy in body, even as your soul does well.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Dearly beloved, concerning all things I make it my prayer that thou mayest proceed prosperously, and fare well as thy soul doth prosperously.
Darby Bible Translation
Beloved, I desire that in all things thou shouldest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospers.
English Revised Version
Beloved, I pray that in all things thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
Webster’s Bible Translation
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
Weymouth New Testament
My dear friend, I pray that you may in all respects prosper and enjoy good health, just as your soul already prospers.
World English Bible
Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be healthy, even as your soul prospers.
Young’s Literal Translation
beloved, concerning all things I desire thee to prosper, and to be in health, even as thy soul doth prosper,
The caveat, of course, is:
even AS your SOUL prospers.
Most folks have lots of unfitting fantasies about how their souls is prospering . . . and pretend that God’s perspective on that is the same as their’s.
“Hagin 11:24” (Mark 11:24) IS also STILL TRUE:
New International Version (©1984)
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
New Living Translation (©2007)
I tell you, you can pray for anything, and if you believe that you’ve received it, it will be yours.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
“Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.
International Standard Version (©2008)
That is why I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it and it will be yours.
GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
That’s why I tell you to have faith that you have already received whatever you pray for, and it will be yours.
King James Bible
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
American King James Version
Therefore I say to you, What things soever you desire, when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you shall have them.
American Standard Version
Therefore I say unto you, All things whatsoever ye pray and ask for, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Bible in Basic English
For this reason I say to you, Whatever you make a request for in prayer, have faith that it has been given to you, and you will have it.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Therefore I say unto you, all things, whatsoever you ask when ye pray, believe that you shall receive; and they shall come unto you.
Darby Bible Translation
For this reason I say to you, All things whatsoever ye pray for and ask, believe that ye receive it, and it shall come to pass for you.
English Revised Version
Therefore I say unto you, All things whatsoever ye pray and ask for, believe that ye have received them, and ye shall have them.
Webster’s Bible Translation
Therefore I say to you, Whatever things ye desire when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Weymouth New Testament
That is why I tell you, as to whatever you pray and make request for, if you believe that you have received it it shall be yours.
World English Bible
Therefore I tell you, all things whatever you pray and ask for, believe that you have received them, and you shall have them.
Young’s Literal Translation
Because of this I say to you, all whatever — praying — ye do ask, believe that ye receive, and it shall be to you.
Of course, one also needs to be praying according to God’s will [and not amiss on their unfitting wild-haired profligate selfishness], as another Scripture reminds.
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