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Was Polygamy, in the Nineteenth Century, Started by the FLDS Church, or the LDS Church?
Faith and Reason Forum.com ^ | 2003 | Donna Morley

Posted on 08/15/2011 4:53:20 AM PDT by Colofornian

During the early 1830s, Emma Smith was beginning to have some strong suspicions that her husband, Joseph (Mormon prophet) might be involved in infidelity. While these were only suspicions, Oliver Cowdery (one of the three “witnesses” to the Book of Mormon) had proof of Smith’s adultery and confronted him on it. Smith denied to Cowdery that he was in any such activity. Cowdery would be excommunicated from the Mormon church on several counts including, “by falsely insinuating that he [Smith] was guilty of adultery.” 1

Emma’s suspicions were confirmed when she caught Joseph and 19-year-old Eliza Partridge locked in a room upstairs together. Emma had hired Eliza to take care of their newborn. 2 Joseph admitted to his personal secretary, William Clayton, that if he took Eliza and Emily Partridge (twin sisters) as wives, he knew that Emma “would pitch on him and obtain a divorce and leave him.”3 But, Joseph added that “he would not relinquish anything.”4 And he didn’t. He would eventually marry the sisters in March, 1843 (without Emma’s knowledge).

In the meantime, Smith shared to his friend John Bennett his dilemma and the trouble he was having with Emma. He wondered what he should do, and Bennett replied, “This is very simple. Get a revelation that polygamy is right, and all your troubles will be at an end.”5

The Revelation

Joseph didn’t waste any time. In 1843 he sat down and wrote a command from the Lord that Emma would be destroyed if she didn’t “receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph.” If she didn’t obey this command, not only would the Lord destroy her, but the Lord will bless Joseph and multiply him with “wives and children and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds” (see the Mormon scripture Doctrine & Covenants 132:52, 54, 56, 61-62).

In this same command, Emma was told to forgive Joseph’s trespasses if she wanted to be forgiven (D&C 132:56). She was then told that the Lord would justify Joseph: “If he have ten virgins given unto him by this law [the law of priesthood], he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified (D&C 132:61-62).

Interestingly, Martin Harris affirmed Joseph had practiced polygamy as early as 1838–five years before Joseph received his revelation.”6 But after receiving the supposed revelation in 1843, Joseph no longer had to keep his affairs from his wife or the public. And, he made this plural-wife doctrine available to all Mormon men under the condition that they get permission from their first wife. Doctrine and Covenants says that the first wife must give consent before her husband can take another wife. The second wife also had to be a virgin and not married to any other man. If the first wife consented then the man would not be committing adultery (D&C 132:61).

It isn’t know if Joseph sought permission from Emma for each of his many wives, but it is known that Joseph didn’t just marry virgins. He married other men’s wives. 7 We have documentation of at least some of the women Joseph married (there may have been more 8): Eighteen of Joseph’s wives were single when he married them and had never been married previously. Another four were widows. But the remaining 11 women were already married to other men, cohabiting with their legal husbands when Smith married them.9

In addition, 11 of Smith’s wives were 14 to 20 years old when they married him. Nine wives were 21 to 30 years old. Eight of his wives were between the ages of 31 to 40. Two wives were between 41-50, and three wives were between 51 to 60 years of age. 10 After Smith’s death, many more women married him by “proxy,” sealed to him for eternity. And for the record, Smith had at least on acknowledged polygamous child named Josephine. The child’s mother was Sylvia Sessions Lyon.11

The Extent

Many Mormons today have no idea how widespread polygamy was. For instance, Mormon singer Donny Osmond believes that “only a relatively small number of church members did so [practiced polygamy] prior to the late 1800s when the Church decreed the practice unacceptable.”12 However, polygamy was an accepted practice, and it wasn’t restricted to a mere few. Let’s take a look at what a few of the church prophets and leaders said.

First Prophet and President Joseph Smith said in 1843: “....God...gave me this revelation and commandment on celestial and plural marriage and the same God commanded me to obey it. He said to me that unless I accepted it and introduced it, and practiced it, I, together with my people, would be damned and cut off from this time hence forth....But we have got to observe it. It is an eternal principle and was given by way of commandment and not by way of instruction.”10

Second Prophet and President Brigham Young said in 1865: “...the whole question, therefore, narrows itself to this in the ‘Mormon’ mind. Polygamy was revealed by God, or the entire fabric of their faith is false. To ask them to give up such an item of belief is to ask them to relinquish the whole, to acknowledge their Priesthood a lie, their ordinances a deception, and all they have toiled for, lived for, bled for, prayed for, or hoped for, a miserable failure and a waste of life.”11

Third Prophet and President John Taylor said in 1880: “The United States says we cannot marry more than one wife. God says different...when adulterers and libertines pass a law forbidding polygamy, the Saints cannot obey it....”11

On September 27, 1886 Taylor gave this revelation: “Thus saith the Lord...I have not revoked this law [plural wives doctrine] nor will I for it is everlasting & (sic) those who will enter into my glory must obey the conditions thereof, even so Amen.”13

These statements raise some important questions. Did God really use these men, especially Joseph Smith? God’s Word says that “holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Peter 1:21, emphasis added). Only holy men (although not sinless) would be used of God to write His Word. Because of this fact alone, Mormons must question whether Doctrine & Covenants is truly the revelations of Jesus Christ.

According to the Bible (especially since the New Testament was written) men are to have only one living wife (1 Corinthians 7:2; Titus 1:6). Because the Bible contradicts Doctrine & Covenants Mormons must question the validity of one or the other. They can’t both be right.

If our Mormon friend still believes the Lord gave Joseph Smith and other Mormon prophets a revelation on plural marriage, we can ask this: Why would the prophets (such as Taylor in 1886) say the plural wives doctrine was everlasting, and then some short years later (1890), deny having anything to do with such a doctrine? In 1869, fourth prophet and president Wilford Woodruff said, “If we were to do away with polygamy...we must do away with prophets and Apostles, with revelation and the gifts and graces of the Gospel, and finally give up our religion altogether.”14

He changed his tune when he wrote an “Official Declaration,” also referred to as The Manifesto (found at the end of octrine and Covenants). Woodruff wrote:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes...allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized...that...the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy–I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner declared that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice....I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.15

President Lorenzo Snow affirmed Wilford Woodruff’s statements and that he was “the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinacnes, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifest...which is dated September 24, 1890.”16

Yet, the U.S. Senate’s Committee on Privileges and Elections submitted a report in which it stated, “A sufficient number of specific instances of the taking of plural wives since the manifesto of 1890, so called, have been shown by the testimony as having taken among officials of the Mormon church to demonstrate the fact that the leaders in this church, the first presidency and the twelve apostles, connive at the practice of taking plural wives and have done so ever since the manifesto was issued.”17

The Response

A Mormon woman, we’ll call “Marjorie,” discovered that the Mormon church first defended polygamy, then said they would stop it. Yet while the church leaders condemned followers who were still in polygamous relationships, some remained polygamous in secret.18 Marjorie may not have known that the Mormon leadership even considered the idea of secret concubines, wherein men and women could live together in secret. 19 After discovering this apparent hypocrisy, Marjorie became concerned about other revelations that Joseph proclaimed in Doctrine and Covenants.

But not all Mormons will respond as Marjorie did. There are some who still defend this past church doctrine. Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought tells us one of the reasons Mormons defend the plural-wives doctrine:

Many Latter-day Saints–especially those that have polygamous ancestors–take pride in the faithful men and women who practiced plural marriage long ago. Even though LDS men take just one legal wife today, many devout Mormons still believe in the “principle” and may be sealed to more than one woman for eternity. The Mormon church’s present doctrine of celestial marriage–which includes the promise of plural marriage in the afterlife, and the current pracitce of plural marriage among Fundamentalist Mormons, are the legacies of Joseph Smith’s revelation sanctioning Nauvoo polygamy as “new and everlasting covenant.”20

Other Mormons defend Smith’s revelation for another reason. For instance, a while ago I asked Pat, a Mormon friend, “Why is it that the Mormon church accepts Joseph’s polygamy and that of other church leaders, but condemns it for everyone else?”

After thinking about the question for a moment, Pat replied, “Well, it was a command from God during a very special time only. It was the same command that God gave the prophets in the Old Testament. Also, Joseph was concerned about the widows and the older single women who didn’t have a man to protect them. These were the type of women he married. He really had a good heart for doing this.”

Surprised at the answer, I said, “But God was against plural marriage in the Old Testament. Only because of the hardness of man’s heart He did allow it [see Genesis 16:4-7]. There were also consequences because of polygamy,

such as jealousy.”

I later shared with Pat (after doing some homework) what the Bible had to say (see the verses in the box).

After sharing with Pat the Leviticus verses, I told her, “You can’t defend Joseph Smith’s polygamy. He and other Mormon men went completely against the laws of Leviticus. Joseph Smith, for instance, married five pairs of sisters;21 he married a mother and her daughter;22 and he took other men’s wives (which included Joseph demanding the wives of all 12 Mormon apostles).”23

I then gently added, “I know you want to think the best of Joseph Smith. I wish I could, too. But if the Mormon church is about truth, as you say it is, we must look at the truth regarding Smith’s life. He didn’t just marry widows and older single women, as you’ve been told. He married pubescent girls, others in their late teens; women in their twenties and thirties, and only a few in their fifties and sixties. Most of these women had never been married or were already married. Few were widows.”

Pat was at a loss for words and simply said, “Interesting.”

Leviticus 18:18,20; 20:14 tells us that God forbids a man, which included the prophets of the Old Testament, to marry “a woman in addition to her sister...while she is alive (18:18). Neither was he to marry “a woman and her mother” (20:14). Neither was he to “have intercourse with your neighbor’s wife, to be defiled with her” (18:20).

So, the question must be answered, “was polygamy started by the FLDS Church or the LDS church? The answer is, clearly the Mormon (LDS) church. Talk to any FLDS person and they will proudly tell you they are the “true” Mormon, for they obey the Mormon scriptures, which includes all that is written in Doctrine and Covenants.

Notes:

1. Joseph Smith, History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, 7 vols. (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret Book Co., 1978), 3:16, April 11, 1838.

2. Richard S. Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History (Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books, 1992), 79.

3. William Clayton diary, August 16, 1843, in George D. Smith, ed., An Intimate Chronicle: The Journals of William Clayton (Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, 1995), 117.

4. Ibid.

5. Dr. W. Wyle, Joseph Smith the Prophet: His Family and His Friends (Salt Lake City, UT: Triune Publishing Co., 1886), 62.

6. Dan Vogel, ed., Early Mormon Documents, (Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books, 1998), 2:348.

7. W. Wyle, 70.

8. For a list of 36 wives with marriage dates, refer to Fawn Brodie, No Man Knows My History, 335-36. For a list of 84 women who were either married to Joseph Smith and/or sealed to him as his wife for eternity, refer to Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Joseph Smith and Polygamy (Salt Lake City, UT: Utah Lighthouse Ministry), 41-47.

9. Tod Compton, In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books, 2001), 15.

10. Ibid., 11.

11. The child was born on February 8, 1844. The mother was legally married to Windsor P. Lyon–cited in D. Michael Quinn’s The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Salt Lake City, UT: Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, 1994), 642, Appendix 7. One contemporary Mormon woman of Joseph Smith’s said, “You hear often that Joseph Smith had no polygamous offspring. The reason of this is very simple. Abortion was practiced on a large scale in Nauvoo. Dr. John C. Bennett, the evil genius of Joseph, brought this abomination into a scientific system. He showed to my husband and me the instruments with which he used to ‘operate for Joseph.’ There was a house in Nauvoo, ‘right across the flat’...a kind of hospital. They sent the women there, when they showed signs of celestial consequences. Abortion was practiced regularly in this house” (emphasis in original). W. Wyle, 59.

12. Donny Osmond, Life Is Just What You Make It (New York, Hyperion, 1999), 13.

13. Contributor, 5:259; quoted in Ogden Kraut’s The Church and the Gospel (Salt Lake City, UT: Pioneer Press, 1993), 186.

14. Millennial Star, Voume 27:673; quoted in Kraut, 186-187.

40. Salt Lake City Tribune, January 6, 1880; quoted in Kraut, 187.

15. Revelation given by John Taylor, dated September 27, 1886; photocopy of the original appears in 1886 Revelation–A Revelation of the Lord to John Taylor. Published by the “Fundamentalists,” quoted in Tanner and Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? 242. 15. Journal of Discourses, 13:166.

16. Doctrine and Covenants, 13:166.

17. Ibid.

18. Reed Smoot Case, 4:476-82, quoted in Tanner and Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? 256-257.

19. For example, in 1896 Mormon apostle Abraham H. Cannon took a plural wife by the name of Lillian Hamlin. President Joseph F. Smithy performed the ceremony and “obtained the acquiescence of President Woodruff [who wrote the manifesto], on the plea that it wasn’t an ordinary case of polygamy but merely a fulfillment of the biblical instruction that a man should take his dead brother’s wife...” Daily Journal of Abraham H. Cannon, April 5, 1894, Volume 18, 70; quoted in Tanner and Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? 244-A.

20. According to the Tanners, the “apostle Abraham H. Cannon’s journal not only reveals that the Mormon leaders approved of polygamy after the manifesto [Official Declaration], but it shows they were considering the idea of a secret system of concubinage: George Qu. Cannon said, “I believe in concubinage, or some plan whereby men and women can live together under sacred ordinances and vows until they can be married...such a condition would have to be kept secret....” President Snow said, “I have no doubt but concubinage will yet be practiced in this church...when the nations are troubled good women will come here for safety and blessing, and men will accept them as concubines.” President Woodruff (author of the manifesto) said, “If men enter into some practice of this character to raise a righteous posterity, they will be justified in it...” Daily Journal of Abraham H. Cannon, April 5, 1894, Volume 18, 70; quoted in Tanner and Tanner, Mormonism Shadow or Reality? 244-B.

21. Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought (Salt Lake City, UT: Dialogue Foundation, 1994), Volume 27, No. 1, Spring 1994, 36.

22. The sisters that Joseph married were Prescindia (m. 1838) and Zina Huntington (m. Oct. 27, 1841), Delcena (m. before June 1842) and Almera Johnson (m. April 1843), Eliza and Emily Partridge (m. March 1843). Cited in Fawn Brodie’s, No Man Knows My History (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, Inc., 1945, 1971), 335-36.

23. Joseph Smith married Patty Sessions (age 47 and wife of David Sessions) on March 9, 1842. Smith married Patty’s daughter Sylvia (age 25-26?, around 1843-44). Brodie, 335-36.

24. W. Wyle, 71.


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From the article: Emma’s suspicions were confirmed when she caught Joseph and 19-year-old Eliza Partridge locked in a room upstairs together. Emma had hired Eliza to take care of their newborn. 2 Joseph admitted to his personal secretary, William Clayton, that if he took Eliza and Emily Partridge (twin sisters) as wives, he knew that Emma “would pitch on him and obtain a divorce and leave him.”3 But, Joseph added that “he would not relinquish anything.”4 And he didn’t. He would eventually marry the sisters in March, 1843 (without Emma’s knowledge). In the meantime, Smith shared to his friend John Bennett his dilemma and the trouble he was having with Emma. He wondered what he should do, and Bennett replied, “This is very simple. Get a revelation that polygamy is right, and all your troubles will be at an end.”5
1 posted on 08/15/2011 4:53:25 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
To see how the Mormon church tried spinning Warren Jeffs as a continuation of 120 years of polygamous Mormon "prophets" yesterday, see: Warren Jeffs and the abandonment of tradition [Real MormonISM]
2 posted on 08/15/2011 5:05:15 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

“To see how the Mormon church tried spinning Warren Jeffs as a continuation of 120 years of polygamous Mormon “prophets” yesterday, see: Warren Jeffs and the abandonment of tradition”

The second paragraph of the article you posted makes clear that the LDS totally disavows this idea. 99% of mormons belong to the LDS, so your statement is incredibly misleading.

So what are you doing referring to a tiny offshoot splinter of the mormon church, as the “mormon church”? Was this intentionally misleading?

How would you feel about someone grossly misrepresenting what you believe?

What do you think of someone holding up what the Westboro church believes, and saying this is what the Christian church believes? That’s equivalent to what you are doing with your statement here.

Was it your intention to smear the whole LDS with this belief? Or did you accidentally neglect to specify that you were talking about a tiny splinter of the mormon church, instead of the “mormon church” as you wrote?

I don’t like Mormon beliefs, but misrepresenting what someone believes is really disgusting behavior.


3 posted on 08/15/2011 5:38:09 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Mount Athos

To be clear I’m talking about the posters grossly misleading summary of a linked article in #2 that he posted yesterday, not the article posted here.


4 posted on 08/15/2011 5:42:26 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Colofornian

YAMT = Yet Another Mormon Thread.


5 posted on 08/15/2011 5:47:43 AM PDT by glorgau
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To: Colofornian

Ask Mitt. His father (born in Mexico) was part of the group that spit off from the US Mormons and took their act to Mexico.


6 posted on 08/15/2011 5:59:03 AM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: Colofornian

This is important?


7 posted on 08/15/2011 6:04:21 AM PDT by stuartcr ("Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different.")
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To: Mount Athos; Zakeet
The second paragraph of the article you posted makes clear that the LDS totally disavows this idea. 99% of mormons belong to the LDS, so your statement is incredibly misleading.

#1...Mormons believe marriage is forever.
#2...There are Lds general authorities TODAY who have married twice (widowers marrying again). They married BOTH partners "For eternity." Mormon policy is that these men WILL BE eternal polygamists.

Tell me something: How does this forever "disavow polygamy?"

#3 Mormons have simply "colonized polygamy." They believe all those Mormon "prophets" & leaders are STILL practicing polygamy today on another planet. Tell me something: How does forever "disavow" polygamy.

#4 In 1966, Lds "apostle" Bruce R McConkie taught in his book Mormon Doctrine that the "holy practice" of polygamy would be re-instituted when the Mormon Jesus returns. Please show me anywhere that Mormon leaders have "disavowed" this futuristic prophesy of Mormons practicing polygamy on Planet Earth.

The fact is that the Mormon god has changed his mind several times on polygamy:
* In the 1830 Book of Mormon, he severely condemns it multiple times.
* By 1831, he's supposedly revealed to Joseph Smith to practice it.
* By 1890, he's supposedly telling Mormons to curtail it.
* Yet by 1904, the Mormon god is having to tell his people, "Hey, I really meant what I said in 1890" cause hundreds of additional plural unions solemnized by Lds leaders showed they had yet to even begin to fully "disavow" it: See Second Manifesto
* By 1910, the Mormon god is having to say thru his leaders, "Hey, I really, really meant what I said in 1890 and 1904." Per a BYU paper by a BYU author, by the name of Daynes, 1910 "coincides with a letter sent to stake presidents instructing them to enforce the 1904 decree that those who entered into or performed new plural marriages would be liable to excommunication."

* By 1966, the Mormon god speaking thru Lds "apostle" McConkie says, "Hey, just wait til I send my son Jesus back. THEN you can resume polygamy on earth."

So much for your notion of disavowel. But, hey, I understand. Those lines have been fed by plenty of Mormon leaders & grassroots Mormons' alike...not to mention the MSM.

Or did you accidentally neglect to specify that you were talking about a tiny splinter of the mormon church, instead of the “mormon church” as you wrote?

Sorry. Mormon 1998 policy about how even women can be sealed post-death to multiple husbands isn't some "tiny splnter" -- nor is McConkie's teaching in effect for 45 years!

“A living woman may be sealed to only one husband. If she is sealed to a husband and later divorced, she must receive a cancellation of that sealing from the First Presidency before she may be sealed to another man in her lifetime and later: A DECEASED woman may be sealed to ALL men to whom she was legally married during her life.” (p.73) LDS Church, Church Handbook of Instructions, (LDS Church, Salt Lake City, Utah, 1998), page 72-73, “Sealing Policies”)

(This same source talks about men being sealed forever to multiple wives...just has to be wives taken serially now)

If you want to continue to eat @ the Mormon PR trough, that's your privilege.

8 posted on 08/15/2011 6:18:43 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: stuartcr
This is important?

Yes. It shows that the "legacy" an individual may start in the year 2011, may come into fruition in the form of another Warren Jeffs-like character in 160 years. Take care what you build. It may last way too long as an "institution."

9 posted on 08/15/2011 6:21:22 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: stuartcr; wolfcreek; Mount Athos

i think this is very important.
(and, do you ask others on FR who post vanity threads about movies, etc., “Is this important”?)

aside from Smith’s arrest and CONVICTION in New York, for working a “magic stone” con, there is much that shows the entire LDS religion to be false. NO evidence in any science for any of the claims.
and this is VERY similar, to utterly CONVENIENT “revelations” from “ALLAH” that Mohammad got.
(my favorite was the one that when Allah said visitors shouldn’t overstay their welcome to Mohammad. and that dogs were evil, when they barked at “peeping Mohammad”.)
= = =
“In the meantime, Smith shared to his friend John Bennett his dilemma and the trouble he was having with Emma. He wondered what he should do, and Bennett replied, “This is very simple. Get a revelation that polygamy is right, and all your troubles will be at an end.”5

The Revelation

Joseph didn’t waste any time. In 1843 he sat down and wrote a command from the Lord that Emma would be destroyed if she didn’t “receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph.” If she didn’t obey this command, not only would the Lord destroy her, but the Lord will bless Joseph and multiply him with “wives and children and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds” (see the Mormon scripture Doctrine & Covenants 132:52, 54, 56, 61-62). “

In this same command, Emma was told to forgive Joseph’s trespasses if she wanted to be forgiven (D&C 132:56). She was then told that the Lord would justify Joseph: “If he have ten virgins given unto him by this law [the law of priesthood], he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified (D&C 132:61-62).


10 posted on 08/15/2011 6:23:16 AM PDT by Elendur (It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Colofornian
I do not agree with all the doctrines of the LDS but America was built on freedom of religion. When they left the Midwest and headed to Utah they took themselves and their doctrine with them. They practiced their beliefs and no one bothered them. When they became a territory no problem but when they wanted to become a state the powers to be in DC said you have to drop your practice of multiple wife's if you want to become a state. So DC drove this doctrine underground.

How would you like DC to tell you what you can and can not practice in your religious belief system?

11 posted on 08/15/2011 6:25:32 AM PDT by guitarplayer1953 (Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to GOD! Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Mount Athos
I don’t like Mormon beliefs, but misrepresenting what someone believes is really disgusting behavior.

What's also telling is how far your moral compass is off...
...instead of being digusted how Joseph Smith forced himself upon 14 yo and 16 yo like Lucy Walker -- a girl whose mother had died & whose father was sent to the east coast by Smith...
...instead of being disgusted by how Smith "married" 11 women still married to other men...and how a lot of these men were likewise sent to the mission field...
...instead of being disgusted by Smith, Brigham Young & Warren Jeffs compiling at least 178 wives between this trio...
...instead of being disgusted by how about 120 years of Mormon "prophets" practicing polygamy leads to the likes of a Warren Jeffs...
...you are disgusted by an "expose'" of sorts on all this.

12 posted on 08/15/2011 6:27:24 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: glorgau
YAMT = Yet Another Mormon Thread.

Hmmm...
This could be interesting

YACT = ... Catholic
YAPT = ... Protestant
YABT = ... Buddhist
YATT = ... Taoist

etc.

This site would do well to be vigilant to
... Drop Belief threads except in sidebars
... Judge Not, for as you Judge, so Shall You be Judged
... Those who are Enemies of Conservatism are watching

13 posted on 08/15/2011 6:37:59 AM PDT by HangnJudge
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To: guitarplayer1953
They practiced their beliefs and no one bothered them. When they became a territory no problem but when they wanted to become a state the powers to be in DC said you have to drop your practice of multiple wife's if you want to become a state. So DC drove this doctrine underground.

You've got your historical facts screwed up.

The Mormon apologist group FAIR says Smith was told by the Mormon god about practicing polygamy in 1831. Yet it took Smith a dozen years to write it down and give it to his original wife to convince him to let him continue.

You've got to understand that Smith took 10 additional wives 'tween February 1843 and July 1843...and his first wife was putting her foot down.

It then took another 9 years -- 21 years total -- for the Mormons to go fully public with their practice. So when you falsely claim that "DC drove this doctrine underground," you're dead wrong! That's exactly how it started out: Underground -- for 21 years! In fact, that's what Emma later said Even his first wife, Emma Smith, said: "It was secret things which...cost Joseph and Hyrum their lives, and it will cost you and The Twelve your lives as it has done to them." (Source: Solemn Covenant, by B. Carmon Hardy, Univ. of Illinois)

Hence, Emma thought it literally drove the Smith brothers underground -- as in a coffin!

They practiced their beliefs and no one bothered them. When they became a territory no problem...

Well, this is your second historical error. Bigamy was already the law of the land...that included territories not just states. But it is true that with territories, the U.S. govt had a law enforcement problem...

Otherwise, how was it that Federal marshals finally came to be putting Mormon polygamists by the hundreds in jail in the 1880s? (Utah was STILL a territory in the 1880s). Congress passed a series of new laws aimed at Mormon polygamists in three decades: The 1860s, the 1870s (Reynolds case) & the 1880s...

For you to now claim in a revisionist manner that this was all supposedly "no problem" to anybody is mistaken.

14 posted on 08/15/2011 6:38:36 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: guitarplayer1953
So DC drove this doctrine underground. How would you like DC to tell you what you can and can not practice in your religious belief system?

A certain CA congressman, Rep. Leo Ryan, flew to Guyana in 1978. He was on a mission per concerns from family members of Jim Jones' cult there. I suppose you might interpret that as "DC...tell[ing]" others what they "can and can not practice" in their "religious belief system"...but sorry, cyanide poisoning via mass-drinking of koolaid is not a "sanctioned" religious belief free from "government interference."

As it was, Rep. Ryan -- along with four others @ that Guyana airstrip -- paid for that trip with their blood...as Ryan was assassinated.
Source: Jonestown

Besides, you also underestimate the reality that at times "DC" really has represented the people. (Just 'cause they tend not to now; doesn't mean they never have)

In 1898, after Utah became a state, it elected a Democrat to Congress (B.H. Roberts). Roberts, though, had taken his third simultaneous wife about 5 years prior. "D.C." -- Congress kept Roberts from being placed into office.

Why? Because "D.C." was "driving" Roberts not to keep picking up additional wives and they didn't like it? Nope. In fact, 'twas the people of the U.S. who were primarily riled with Roberts & Utah.

You see, in 1856, the fledging Republican party had decided on a social agenda that would tackle what they regarded as "the twin relics of barbarism" -- polygamy and slavery.

Now you may hate the 19th century Republican party for tackling polygamy and slavery, but it did. And it did so effectively that within 42 years, grassroots America presented 28 banners to Congress...28 banners including 7 million signatures.

Think of it. 7 million signatures in 1898 America. Before mass media like radio. 7 million people riled up over a single polygamous Congressman from Utah.

And yet you want to pin the concern on just 19th century "D.C." (Sorry...but you needed this history lesson)

15 posted on 08/15/2011 7:04:38 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Mount Athos
ahhh, lds still practice polygamy. It's called sealing for life and men get dozens of wives for their plant/godhood.

flds are actually practicing what Joseph Smith taught.

16 posted on 08/15/2011 7:07:26 AM PDT by svcw (democrats are liars, it's a given)
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To: guitarplayer1953
Well, the lds could have remained a territory or an independent country but they decided their god told them polygamy was a no-no, whala just in time to become a state. Wasn't that convenient.
17 posted on 08/15/2011 7:09:45 AM PDT by svcw (democrats are liars, it's a given)
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To: Mount Athos; Colofornian
So what are you doing referring to a tiny offshoot splinter of the mormon church, as the “mormon church”? Was this intentionally misleading?

Photobucket

18 posted on 08/15/2011 7:09:54 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (My God can't be bribed by money or good works or bound by manmade "covenants". Romney's can.)
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To: Colofornian
Was Polygamy, in the Nineteenth Century, Started by the FLDS Church, or the LDS Church?

Neither...


The church teaches that it is a continuation of the Church of Christ established in 1830 by Joseph Smith, Jr. This original church underwent several name changes during the 1830s, being called the Church of Jesus Christ, the Church of God, and then in 1834, the name was officially changed to the Church of the Latter Day Saints.

(From WIKI)

19 posted on 08/15/2011 7:32:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: greyfoxx39

Just wondering if you realize the graphic you posted confirms my point?


20 posted on 08/15/2011 7:32:24 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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