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Rev. 18:3: Evolution...Primordial Heresy as Royal Science of Man Becoming God
Renew America ^ | July 18, 2011 | Linda Kimball

Posted on 07/19/2011 5:07:06 AM PDT by spirited irish

From the days of Adam right down to our own time, the devilish belief that man is God has danced across history, seducing millions in its path. Early Church Father John of Damascus identifies barbarism as the primordial heresy, the idea that man is god:

"Barbarism is that which prevailed from the days of Adam down through ten generations to the time of Noah. It is called barbarism because of the fact that in those times men had no ruling authority or mutual accord, but every man was independent and a law unto himself after the dictates of his own will." (John of Damascus, "The Fount of Knowledge," cited in Political Apocalypse, Ellis Sandoz, p. 131)

After studying civilizations across the whole span of history, noted historian Arnold Toynbee concluded that the paramount religion of mankind is self-worship...of man as god. Tal Brooke concurs, noting that historically there has always been an exoteric polytheism-pantheism for the general masses and a high level esoteric "advaitic" monism for the higher initiate. For initiates then:

".... the Great Lie (is) the foundation stone of Hinduism, Buddhism, Sufism, Jainism, Sikhism, Taoism, the Kabala, the Greek Hermetic, Eleusinian and Gnostic beliefs, Neo-Platonism, all the occult creeds from Theosophy and the Masonic orders to the Rosicrucian's (and) the New Age movement. The Great Lie is...the belief that man is God, that his true identity is the immortal self...that as God, he will never die (and) Sin and depravity are...illusions since this inner divinity is at man's core." (The Great Lie, Tal Brooke, SCP Journal, Vol. 29:2-29:3, 2005)

The Book of Revelation pinpoints Babylon as the post-flood center both of an organized religion based on the primordial heresy and as the first utopian or heaven on earth project. Babylon embraced the Great Lie. Its inhabitants claimed the title, "I AM." They were earmarked by their "advaitic monism," science of magic-transformism, exalted priesthood, gnosis, secret initiations, sorcery, astrology, channeling, psychic-powers, familiar spirits, and hedonism. But the root source of this evil religion and its occult power was the Great Dragon himself....Lucifer.

God abhors these practices and sternly reminds His people through the prophet Isaiah (45:18-19) not to be seduced by Babylon's deadly delusion:

"I AM the Lord, and there is none other. I have not spoken in secret, neither in a place of darkness." "I said not to the seed of Jacob..." seek me in the monistic 'one thing'....chaos, the formless void, Kant's deified reason,' Hegel's Geist, Marx's dialectical matter, Natural Selection, the Force, the Overmind, Absolute Spirit, the Christ consciousness or the "thought-universe" of quantum mechanics.

Primordial Heresy as Modern Ideology

"Exalting mankind to the status of deity...dates from the farthest reaches of antiquity, but its development into an ideology embracing the masses is a characteristic of modernity." (Herbert Schlossberg, cited in The Seduction of Christianity, Dave Hunt and T.A. McMahon)

Toynbee pinpointed the bloody French Revolution as the first orchestrated reappearance of the primordial heresy, and in tacit agreement with the findings of early Conservative intellectuals, of the entire "nightmare of destruction in which America and other nations participated" from WWI through WWII as further manifestations. (The Conservative Intellectual Movement in America, George H. Nash, p. 31)

Primordial heresy as modernist ideology takes many forms:

" rationalism, positivism, naturalism, materialism, evolutionism, social Darwinism, Natural Selection, empiricism, Hegelianism, Marxism, scientific socialism, scientism, Secular Humanism, Tran humanism, Freudianism, existentialism, progressivism, liberalism, utopianism, revolutionary activism, fascism, communism, national socialism, determinism, reductionism, nihilism, deconstructionism, moral relativism, antitheism, behaviorism and underlying them all, atheism."

In his book "Utopia: The Perennial Heresy," Catholic philosopher and historian Thomas Molnar (1910-2010) notes that the two recurring themes of modern ideologies are monism and evolutionary conceptions. At the root of these two themes there is:

" defiance of God, pride unlimited, a yearning for enormous power and the assumption of divine attributes with a view to manipulating and shaping mankind's fate." (p. 227)

In order for god-men to create a new world and a new man:

"the order of being must be obliterated (and reinterpreted) as essentially under man's control." Taking control "requires the decapitation of being — the murder of God." (Eric Voegelin, "Science, Politics and Gnosticism," p. xv)

Fundamentally, Darwinism is materialist monism and as the pillar of natural science is the devilish idea by which naturalist god-men have "decapitated God" and seized control of the order of being.

In short, Darwinism is powerful magic wielded by a cult religion's sorcerers:

"(Darwinism is) nothing but a kind of cult, a cult religion....It has no scientific validity whatsoever. Darwin's so-called theory of evolution is based on absurdly irrational propositions, which did not come from scientific observations, but were artificially introduced from the outside, for political-ideological reasons." (Jonathan Tennenbaum, "Towards 'A New Science of Life,' Executive Intelligence Review, Vol. 28, No. 34, Sept. 7, 2001)

Indeed, Daniel Dennett tacitly agrees, for he describes Darwinism as a 'universal acid.' In other words, Darwinism is the "acid bath" in which God the Father and His entire order of being are in process of dissolution, a diabolical conjuration requiring the conceptual dismantling of:

" human individuality through the dissolution of individual conscience and consciousness, and then to replace these with the collectivity (monism) and coalesced consciousness (i.e., the Force, Christ Consciousness)." (Molnar, 227, emphasis added)

"...they seek my soul to destroy it..." Psalm 63:9

In this light, when Daniel Dennett, the Wizard of Reductionism claims that there really is no you, that soul, spirit and free will are illusions caused by chemical interactions in the brain and Tom Wolfe, Sorcerer of Naturalism waves his magic wand and intones, "Sorry, but your soul just died," they speak as sorcerers (Acts 13:6-10) conjuring away man's "individual conscience and consciousness" through words that destroy. (The Spiritual Brain: A Neuroscientist's Case for the Existence of the Soul, Beauregard and O'Leary, p. 4)

Return of the Primordial Heresy: A Brief Timeline

"The leading principle of Utopian religion is the repudiation of the doctrine of Original Sin." (H.G. Wells, A Modern Utopia, 1905)

Repudiating Original Sin necessitates the obliteration of the transcendent God and His order of being, a project already underway by the time of Descartes. In her book "Total Truth," Nancy Pearcy, a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute, writes that one of the great ironies of history is that the enduring impact of Descartes philosophy has been precisely the opposite of what he had intended. Descartes had intended the defense of the human soul over and against the dehumanizing mechanistic and materialistic conception of the universe. Instead, the soul — and its citadel mind — was reduced to a shadowy substance totally irrelevant to the material realm known by natural science. The immortal soul became a kind of ghost only tenuously connected to the physical body. The novelist Walker Percy speaks of the:

"dread chasm that has rent the soul of Western man ever since the famous philosopher Descartes ripped body loose from mind and turned the very soul into a ghost that haunts its own house." ("Total Truth," Nancy Pearcey, p. 103)

After the success of Newtonian physics natural science began to be viewed as the way of progress and enlightenment and nature described as a cosmic machine, governed by deterministic energies working through natural laws as strictly as the gears of a clock. Though soul and spirit are crucial for reason, conscience, morality, belief, faith, prayer, theorizing, science, and religion, there was no room for them in the mindless cosmic machine.

The mechanistic conception gave rise to rationalism, determinism, positivism and scientific materialism (atheism), which grant naturalistic science a monopoly on so-called "real" knowledge while trivializing everything else to personal belief and social constructs.

"Evil thoughts...generated evil deeds." (George H. Nash, The Conservative Intellectual Movement, p.48)

"Observing the modern intellectual crap, it is time that someone knocked at the door of...Immanuel Kant and told him the fatidic words from that famous Brazilian comic samba — Here, take back your child." (The Father of the Crap, Olavo de Carvalho, Mar. 5, 1998, www.olavodecarvalho.org/ )

The German philosopher Immanuel Kant was a pivotal figure in the obliteration of man's immortal soul. Kant desired to cut loose from God, and being morally defective he eagerly embraced the Enlightenment's mechanistic image of man and the universe. Thus he took it upon himself to recast mind and freedom as "autonomous self" and the material realm as the deterministic Newtonian world machine. In praise of the cosmic machine he wrote:

"(it is) necessary that everything which takes place should be infallibly determined in accordance with the laws of nature." (Total Truth, p. 104)

Though Kant saw the need for reason and morality, which presupposes the soul (mind and free will), he nevertheless sought autonomy from God the Father, thus negating the existence of his own soul....and reason. Undeterred, Kant went on to define self-autonomy as being subject only to laws imposed on himself by himself. In short, Kant would be sovereign and influenced by nothing but his own deified reason. This is a variant of idealist monism that teaches that reality and creative powers exist within man's mind. As one theologian commented:

"The creation of universal (moral) law was traditionally the function of God alone, and this function is now arrogated to the individual human rational will." Thus it can be said that "Kant has made reason into God." (ibid, p. 105)

It is crucial to realize Kant's dichotomy is outright contradictory. For if mindless nature really is the deterministic machine of Newtonian physics, then mind (i.e., reason), morality, belief, and science are not possible in that man is nothing but a puppet dancing to the mindless tunes of mindless nature. Even Kant admitted that this was a paradox that he was unable to resolve. The trick, he said, is to enter into a charade. We will be swindlers who on one hand will publicly pretend to be fully caused and determined by nature while on the other we will quietly participate in a spiritual world where we conceive of ourselves as free moral agents.

According to Kant's swindle the material realm is the realm of publicly verifiable scientific facts which in our own time are for example, Darwinism, atheism, man as evolved ape, determinism, and moral relativism while the spiritual is the politically-incorrect realm of belief, faith, religion, special creation, God the Father and moral absolutes. Kant's swindle is behind the Orwellian-speak or politically-correct cognitive dissonance that has become pandemic in our own day through the efforts of contemporary Kantians: social scientists, evolutionary biologists, Hollywood, media, higher education, jurists, and sorcerers such as Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, and Richard Dawkins.

Following Kant's lead, a legion of neo-pagan ideologues openly advocated total integration into mindless nature. What these malcontents sought was salvation from God the Father, Original Sin, Universal Moral Law, sexual ethics, and their own immortal souls by immersing themselves into the "forces and rhythms of nature." Lester Crocker summarizes the Enlightenment premise:

"There existed in the eighteenth century a widespread desire to equate the moral with the physical world...." What was desired above all was, "total integration of man in nature, with refusal of any transcendence, even though it was admitted that his more complex physical organization gave him certain special abilities and ways of thinking. The important thing, as La Mettrie, d'Holbach, and others made clear, is that he is submitted to the same laws; everything is response to need — mechanically, some added, like a tree or a machine. Man merely carries out natural forces — without any freedom whatsoever — in all he does, whether he loves or hates, helps or hurts, gives life or takes it." (Monsters from the Id, E. Michael Jones, p. 5, 7)

In his influential "History of Jacobinism," Abbe Barruel commented:

"With Voltaire, man is a pure machine; Frederick the Great maintains..."I know that I am an animal organized, and that thinks; hence, I conclude that matter can think, as well as that it has the property of being electric." La Mettries' "man-machine, or his man-plant, only caused the Sect to blush from the open manner in which he had said what many of them wished to insinuate." (ibid, p. 6, 7)

The Enlightenment was in effect a diabolical effort to murder God the Father and obliterate His order of being, allowing for reality to be replaced with escapist fantasy: the cosmic machine and soulless machine-man, fully caused and determined by unseen forces of nature, with Newtonian physics as its guide.

Though Kant and others had speculated on a naturalistic origin of the universe, the picture was not complete until Darwinian materialism replaced God the Father and creation ex nihilo with a counterfeit: spontaneous generation of mindless matter from nothing.

The roots of evolution stretch back to the ancient Upanishads of India and to ancient Greece, and in its modern version evolution describes the progress (transmigration) of a divine spark or energy as it inhabits in succession the bodies of different beings over the course of millions and billions of years. In the words of Emergent Church leader Rob Bell:

"There is an energy in the world, a spark, an electricity that everything is plugged into. The Greeks called it zoe, the mystics call it 'Spirit,' and Obi-Wan called it 'the Force'.....This energy, spark, and electricity that pulses through all of creation sustains it, fuels it, and keeps it growing. Growing, evolving, reproducing..." (Love Wins, pp. 144-145)

For initiates and adepts however, evolution magically transforms man into god:

"the evolution of man into superman — was always the purpose of the ancient Mysteries, and the real purpose of modern Masonry is not the social and charitable purposes to which so much attention is paid, but the expediting of the spiritual evolution of those who aspire to perfect their own nature and transform it into a more god-like quality. And this is a definite science, a royal art, which it is possible for each of us to put into practice..." (The Meaning of Masonry, W.L. Wilmhurst, p. 47)

Charles Darwin received the idea of evolution from his grandfather Dr. Erasmus Darwin who was a neo-pagan monist known to attend séances. As master of the famous Masonic Canongate lodge in Edinburgh he had close ties with both the Jacobin Masons, the organizers of the bloody revolution in France, and with the infamous Illuminati, whose diabolical cause was overthrow of the Church and destruction of Christendom. Thus Erasmus Darwin was an important name in European Masonic anti-religious organizations engaged in revolutionary activism. Erasmus Darwin mentored his grandson Charles:

"Dr. Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802) was the first man in England to suggest those ideas which were later to be embodied in the Darwinian theory by his grandson, Charles Darwin (1809-1882) who wrote in 1859 Origin of Species." (Scarlet and the Beast, Vol. II, John Daniel, p. 34)

Pope Leo XIII issued a famous bull in 1884 entitled Humanum Genus in which he discussed the evil undertakings of the Free Masons and the Illuminati:

"...the partisans of evil seems to be combining together, and to be struggling with united vehemence, led on or assisted by that strongly organized and widespread association called the Freemasons. No longer making any secret of their purposes, they are now boldly rising up against God Himself." They intend nothing less than "the utter overthrow of that whole religious and political order of the world which the Christian teaching has produced, and the substitution of a new state of things in accordance with their ideas (that) shall be drawn from mere naturalism." (Humanum Genus, Encyclical on Freemasonry)

Neo-Pagan God-men Remake Mankind as Apes

"Instead of Adam, our ancestry is traced to the most grotesque of creatures; thought is phosphorous; the soul complex nerves, and our moral sense a secretion of sugar." (Disraeli, quoted by John Passmore "A Hundred Years of Philosophy," p. 36)

With the triumph of natural science and Darwinism in the nineteenth century, the murder of God and the obliteration of His order was cast in the cement of "enlightened" pseudo-science. Westerners would be cut off from God the Father and their own souls, thereby disrupting:

"the bio-psycho-spiritual unity of human consciousness...." (Authenticating the Activities of Jesus, Bruce Chilton and Craig A. Evans, 1999)

The modern secular "scientistic" West has almost succeeded in obliterating the souls of its' citizens and now seeks obliteration of the two sexes:

"Little Johnny went to school; There to learn a brand new rule; No longer could the boys be boys Or have their special trucks and toys; Only six, so young and tender, It's time for him to unlearn gender." (Here At School the Slant is Gay, cited in Our Gay Pride President, David A. Noebel, http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=7292 )

Primordial Heresy as Natural Religion of Science

The Christian Truth which had been undermined and displaced by primordial heresy developed as ideology and natural religion was no mere philosophical truth but the Truth of Life and salvation. Once there began to:

"gain ground, among the multitudes who have been nourished by that Truth, the conviction that it is no longer credible, the result will be...a spiritual catastrophe of enormous dimensions." (Nihilism: The Root of the Revolution of the Modern Age, Eugene Rose, pp. 44-45)

The climate of naturalist scientism established by eighteenth-century rationalists was extended by nineteenth-century positivists and evangelists of the idea of collective progress (monism), giving birth to the first natural religion of science: scientific socialism and/or Marxist Communism.

Fyodor Dostoevsky had a bitter foretaste of the demonically malignant effects of scientific socialism, "a spiritual catastrophe of enormous dimensions." This evil religion, said Dostoevsky:

"....is that terrible scourge of mankind, a scourge worse than plague, famine and war, an evil that didn't exist until this century... one that has its own priests and slaves; a tyrant that is worshipped with unprecedented awe and adulation before which science itself fawns and cringes." (The Restitution of Man: C.S. Lewis and the Case Against Scientism, Michael D. Aeschliman, p. 37)

Toward the close of the nineteenth century thinkers like Nietzsche foresaw the spiritual catastrophe that would eventuate in the genocidal "nightmare of destruction in which America and other nations participated" from WWI through WWII.

Rev. 18:3 The West....drunk on the Primordial Heresy of Babylon

Today the Christian West is dead, leaving it with no moral defense against either jihadist fanatics and the imposition of Sharia on one hand or the approach of the satanic New Age on the other.

The contemporary West is drunk on the primordial heresy of Babylon. As progressive Christian Liberalism, it is the carrier of the devilish occult spiritual virus into the embattled Body of the Church where it acts to divide Christians against themselves. Peter Jones, author of "Spirit Wars: Pagan Revival in Christian America" connects progressive Christian Liberalism to ancient devilish Gnosticism, saying they are kindred-spirits.

As the natural religion of America's bipartisan (left-right) Ruling Class, it leads them to pray:

"to themselves as saviors of the planet and as shapers of mankind in their own image." (The Ruling Class, Angelo M. Codevilla, p. xix)

The Primordial Heresy is at the root of the 'scientific' religion of New Age Transnational Progressives, the Masters of the Universe, who with their Transcended Spirit Masters, aspire to complete control of the world and every man, woman, and child. Lee Penn notes that evolution is absolutely central to New Age theology, a syncretistic, monistic stew of Liberal Christianity, Theosophy, Spiritism, the Ancient Mysteries, Buddhism, Wicca, Goddess worship, and adulation of Lucifer. In the newest version of that "terrible scourge of mankind, a scourge worse than plague, famine and war," New Age god-men envision a spiritualized version of Marxist Communism that includes:

1. Praise for Lucifer

2. Progressive adepts as gods

3. Advocacy for global depopulation

4.Utter contempt for authentic Roman Catholics, Protestant Christians, and faithful Jews

5. Forecasting a pending (and for them, desirable) "selection" of mankind, in which the progressives enter the New Age and the reactionaries face extinction. For the New Age Apostles of "progressive" Social Darwinism, these casualties are a necessary price to pay for human evolution." (False Dawn: The United Religions Initiative, Globalism, and the Quest for a One-World Religion, Lee Penn, pp. 5,7, 23-26)

The West's suicide looms in tandem with a rising spiritual catastrophe as the demonic in modern ideological movements penetrates ever deeper into the souls of Westerners, materializing and disordering them. On a daily basis, evolutionist ideologues and other secular naturalists in control of media, institutions of learning, Hollywood, law, and politics reinforce the demonic closing of souls to God the Father. Thus every day witnesses the spread of barbarism as more and more Westerners become "independent and a law" unto themselves.

"One Ring to rule them all...One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them." J.R.R. Tolkien

Though all of the ideologies have gone into the casting of the One Ring, none are so mesmerizing nor powerfully attractive as evolution, the Primordial Heresy as the royal science of becoming God.

copyright 2011 Linda Kimball

Additional Source:

The Ascendancy of the Scientific Dictatorship: Illuminating the Occult Origin of Darwinism, Phillip D. Collins, Feb. 24, 2005

Related Essays

Occult Pagan Revival Signals Death of the West and America

Progressive Satanic Revolt: From Nothingness to Worship of Satan

Darwinism: Devilish Gnostic Myth Disguised as Science

The Original Lie: Basis for America's Ruling Class

Rise of the Modern Moloch State

Linda writes on culture and worldview


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KEYWORDS: communism; darwinism; ideology; lindakimball; scientism
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1 posted on 07/19/2011 5:07:09 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: little jeremiah; wagglebee

ping


2 posted on 07/19/2011 5:19:34 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: YHAOS; hosepipe; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; metmom; Matchett-PI

ping


3 posted on 07/19/2011 5:22:16 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish
The writer is curiously selective about his descriptions of certain religions in order to maintain his thesis.

The essence of one of the hundreds of varieties of religions collectively called Hinduism is not man putting himself in the place of God but coming to understand that all things that can be named, including God, are illustrative of the illusion of separateness. The main point isn't that, at the most fundamental, man is really God. It is that what we call "man" and "God" and "the world" and "iron sulfate" are all illusion and have no independent existence at all. Freedom consists in realizing this and becoming liberated from the cycle of (illusory) rebirth.

Classical Buddhism posits only a tendency to exist, not a specific personal being, that is propagated through time because of continued desire. The answer is not becoming God, but extinction without remainder through the elimination of desire.
4 posted on 07/19/2011 5:34:52 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan

The author distinguished between the exoteric version and the esoteric version for the initiate. If you are of the exoteric school it makes sense that you are unaware of the initiate’s esoteric “advaitic monism.”


5 posted on 07/19/2011 5:43:07 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish
in those times men had no ruling authority or mutual accord, but every man was independent and a law unto himself after the dictates of his own will

I didn't realize the Libertarian Party was that old.

6 posted on 07/19/2011 5:46:55 AM PDT by tbpiper (Sarah Palin is the antivenin for the Obama poison)
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To: tbpiper

Re the Libertarian Party, it is as old as “pride,” :)


7 posted on 07/19/2011 5:53:15 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: tbpiper

Amazing how there really is nothing new, isn’t it?


8 posted on 07/19/2011 5:57:06 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish

I wonder where (if anywhere) he would fit a religion that believes we are all ‘gods in embryo’ and will become gods ourselves one day?


9 posted on 07/19/2011 11:45:49 AM PDT by reaganaut ( "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: spirited irish

Jesus invented “evolution”... when he said “you MUST be born again”..

A metamorphosis from one state into another.. i.e. butterfly..
Evolving from human into something else.. i.e. spiritual creature..

Whether a metaphorical illusion/allusion or a literal transformation..
Whats the difference.. a change can occur..

A change happening fleshly or spiritually is still a change..
What, really, do you know for sure, and how sure are you that you know it?..

“Faith” is not lost in either option..
The fleshly oriented see “it” one way, the spiritually inclined see “it” another way..

Could be the “reference”(born again) could be both metaphorical and literal.. like a coin has two sides..

Whatever is “IS”..... and whatever ain’t...... AIN’T..


10 posted on 07/19/2011 12:05:53 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop

magical spirit ping..


11 posted on 07/19/2011 12:10:00 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: spirited irish
It seems the author is fixated on the fact that natural science has a million and one useful applications while their supernatural explanations for physical phenomena have never been of any use to anyone.

These poor deluded fools cannot even be consistent in if acceptance of evolution is “humanism” and worship of humans as neo Gods - or a degradation of humanity as “just an animal”.

12 posted on 07/19/2011 12:20:47 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream

Your premise slightly restated:

It seems Kant was fixated on the fact that natural science has a million and one useful applications while their supernatural explanations for physical phenomena have never been of any use to anyone.

Poor deluded fool. His “fixation” cost him his soul...and reason.


13 posted on 07/19/2011 12:48:09 PM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish
So only by supposing that supernatural forces are accountable for physical phenomena can our souls be saved and our minds be subject to reason- despite such a premise being of no practical use to anyone ever?

That may be dogma among the fanatics, but it isn't usually Christian dogma among the vast majority of denominations that see no conflict at all between evidence and reason and Scripture.

14 posted on 07/19/2011 12:52:45 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: hosepipe

Jesus invented “evolution”... when he said “you MUST be born again”..

A metamorphosis from one state into another.. i.e. butterfly..
Evolving from human into something else.. i.e. spiritual creature..

Spirited: To be born again does not mean that man evolves into “something else.” Man is man and will never become other than man. In terms of evolution and/or metamorphosis, Jesus Christ was speaking of a this-worldly moral and/or ethical transformation in preparation for eternity.


15 posted on 07/19/2011 1:00:38 PM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish
[ Man is man and will never become other than man.]

So you mean... man is flesh and will remain flesh for eternity?..
Heaven, whatever that is, is a paradise of flesh?..
and Hell is a prison of flesh?..

Jesus is flesh.?, you and I are flesh.?.. and thats just the way it “IS”?..

Interesting... my thought is you might need a BIGGER God..
My God is not fleshly.. if yours is..... then it is..

I'm not trying to steal away a fleshly God from fleshly people..

It appears to me that Jesus was attempting to "WEAN" people away from a fleshly identity to a spiritual identity..

And did.. sometimes, with a few, somewhat...

16 posted on 07/19/2011 2:36:30 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: hosepipe

John 4:23 “But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him. 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”


17 posted on 07/19/2011 2:48:50 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream

Exactly..


18 posted on 07/19/2011 3:00:21 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: allmendream

“So only by supposing that supernatural forces are accountable for physical phenomena can our souls be saved and our minds be subject to reason”

Spirited: Physical phenomena cannot account for the “immaterial” mind anymore than they can account for consciousness. If they could then rocks ought to be thinking, dreaming “physical phenomena.”

But then as materialist monism fades, neo-platonist monism rushes into the void and lo, it teaches that rocks do in fact “think” because everything that exists is “god.”

Not long before he died, Antony Flew rejected naturalism, saying that “physical phenomena” cannot and will never account for the soul, mind, and consciousness.

Flew had come to see the danger of dogmatic atheism to be the way it automatically closes itself off from certain questions, such as “why does the world exist?” A no-nonsense acceptance of “brute” (i.e., physical phenomena) facts is no explanation and should not be accorded special authority, noted Flew.

Flew came to see that the realm of science is not science itself but philosophy, thereby refuting Kant’s contradictory dichotomy. Thus philosophical issues carry more weight than the merely scientific.

The fact that nature obeys laws, that intelligently organized and purpose-driven beings came to be, the very existence of something rather than nothing...these philosophical issues in tandem with a renewed study of the classical philosophical arguments and a deep respect for the Apostle Paul in conjunction with certain scientific findings (i.e. fine-tuned universe) culminated in Flew’s acceptance of God.

Flew thought of God as self-existent, immutable, immaterial, omnipotent, and omniscient but not personal even though the resurrection was clearly on his mind.

Flew ended his last book with these words: “Some claim to have made contact with this Mind. I have not-—yet. But who knows what could happen next? Someday I might hear a Voice that says, ‘Can you hear me now?”

The resistance of naturalists to supernatural explanations is not “scientific” but psychological. For the claim that Jesus was alive, after having been dead, involves a miracle that entails the falsity of naturalism.

Whether you like it or not, the spiritual realm is intruding into the natural on a daily basis. Near death experiences and the Transcended spirit-guides of many globally-powerful progressives are just two examples of many.

Flew obviously sought God. And since He said that all who seek will find, I believe that at the very end, Flew did indeed find Him.


19 posted on 07/19/2011 3:18:27 PM PDT by spirited irish
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To: hosepipe

So you mean... man is flesh and will remain flesh for eternity?..
Heaven, whatever that is, is a paradise of flesh?..
and Hell is a prison of flesh?..

Spirited: God the Father likes matter for He created it, which of course includes the bodies in which our souls are embedded. After He rose from the dead, Jesus “modeled” for us the resurrection body all of us will have one day after all things have been made new, which includes this earth. It will be made new.

Gnosticism rather than Christian theism is dominant today. Your disparaging remarks regarding “flesh” are very Gnostic.
Gnostics hated Yahweh to the extent of consigning Him to hell. In His place they exalted the Devil.


20 posted on 07/19/2011 3:33:39 PM PDT by spirited irish
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