Posted on 05/21/2011 4:46:26 AM PDT by marbren
Camping is a victim of replacement theology. IMHO the lie of replacement theology is almost as insidious as idolatry. The key to holistic understanding of Bible prophecy is to understand the role of Israel in it. God keeps his promises to Israel. This is a model to the rest of us that he will keep his promises to us as well.
A majority of the church going world has been victimized. I believed the lie for 35 years. During the past 20 I have been seeking the truth and only recently did I stop saying IMHO replacement theology is a lie and replaced it with: Replacement theology is a lie dropping the IMHO. For those that do not know, Replacement theology is the lie that the Church has replaced Israel in God’s plan.
The church was polluted by Replacement theology early on. Origen and Augustine, early Fathers of the church, were the first to muddy up the scriptures in this way when they arrogantly took on the mantle of Israel for themselves. Martin Luther apparently did not study it and this lead to his anti-Semitism and Hitler. In many ways IMHO it is like a reverse of the circumcision party that led to Acts 15.
This replacement theology lie has lead to the church we have today. Everyone is running around not knowing what is happening in these end times we are in. The truth is The Church, the Bride of Christ, has a role and Israel has a role. Think of men and women, children and parents, husbands and wives, angels and people, dogs and cats, sheep and goats, wheat and tares. All these have roles God invented.
So the solution: Open your Bible, drop your preconceived notions and open your mind, ask God to reveal the truth about all this Israel stuff written in the Bible. The Lord Jesus Christ is central in it all. Gods Grace and Mercy is incredible, He does all the work. Faith and hope and love permeate the entire Bible and the greatest of these is love.
thanks for your question, i agree with you, there will be a rapture. The Bible is clear on this. But the rapture occurs at the end of the world and Jesus’s second coming. it is the “pre-trib” rapture heresy i oppose.
LOL, John the BAPTIST was a Baptist like Jerry Farwell?
now i have read everything!
i see posts like yours all the time, but no names are ever provided. surely these “Christians” who weren’t Catholics wrote letters or apologies that we can examine, no??
Do you know how difficult and rare it is to find anything from the second century? Let alone anything that was published in significant enough quantities to survive the book burnings routinely performed by Rome?
We would need a time machine and heavy weaponry to retrieve those things.
When do you think Gutenberg invented his press? It was a long time from the 2nd century, and when Tyndale wanted to simply publish a Bible in English, your Church murdered him. Given the trail of blood that leads to the Vatican, how dare you complain that there isn't significant surviving texts to satisfy your demand?
OTOH, I'm glad that you appreciate the John the Baptist was the first denomination joke.
Sorry but a nice try.
just as i thought, no names provided. funny, the Catholics like Ploycarp and Ignatius were under the same Roman persecution as your mythical “Christians”, but we know their names. i prefer to stick to history and not fantasy.
i think it is funny that people try to quote St Irenaeus and accept him as a Christian, but attack Catholics today as not being Christian, yet believing the same doctrines as the good Bishop. you can’t make this stuff up!
The Bible says that there is only one physical, literal return of Christ. Where did I say any different?
“Obama is a tool of forces he barely grasps. He’s a victim of hubris.”
Wow. Well said!
And you're not trying to claim that the Bible contradicts itself are you?
No one who dies in their sins, without knowing Christ as Savior, will spend eternity in Heaven. And we also know that the day will come, after the Tribulation, when all Israel will be saved. How does that then translate into the Church being Israel?
Are you claiming that God messed up? That Scripture contradicts itself? Because that's the only way you can twist and cram those passages into "proof" that the Church is now Israel. God says that the Church will be in Heaven when the Tribulation is going on, when the "time of Jacob's (Israel's) trouble" is going on. God says that the purpose of the Tribulation is both to judge this Christ-rejecting world and to purify Israel. But the Church won't be here when that is going on. The Church will be in Heaven during the Tribulation and Israel will be here, being purified and being made ready to re-enter into a relationship with her God. You have quite a problem on your hands because there is not one iota of Scripture to support your beliefs.
You have to change the Bible the way God wrote it to make your false doctrine work. Because God never said that the Church has replaced Israel.
The European Union is a good example...There is a central figure who presides over the union but each nation/state is recognized individually...
Religiously, the Catholic Church is supportive of the One World Gov't with the One World Religion, assuming of course that IT is the Religion...
And that is dealt with in the recent decree put out by the Vatican where everyone will be under one gov't political leader as well as one Religious leader but uses a term called subsidiary where there is a certain autonomy for each nation/state...
After the Rapture takes place there will pandemonium thruout the world and no doubt police states will pop up everywhere...I assume Kings will replace Presidents and Congresses...
And if Satan is bound now ... what are all those exorcists doing?
And no one (in your religion) knew that Jesus had brothers and sisters til they were able to read it for themselves...But then they were taught not to beleive it anyway...
What your religion taught for centuries is irrelevant since it taught what it wanted the Catholics to hear, not what the scriptures said...
still no one has showed me from scripture ( come on, you folks believe in sola scriptura, not me ) where it says Jesus will come a second and third time.
How do you figure millions of people can see it in the scriptures but you can't???
I don't know any of these bible believer here on FR...Yet they can see the Rapture in the scriptures as I can...What happended (or didn't happen) to you???
I usually don't trouble myself with Mormon teachings in the same way I really don't have much interest in Eastern religions or Islam.
The Mormon angle is probably where I heard about the Israel bride years ago also.
From my former days deep in Dispensationalism,
Your knowledge is obviously due to experience and very well read. We do change as we grow or die. As you know I came from Lutheran amill to my present Lutheran premill position. I do admit I am quite alone in the premill part, that's OK.
Do you have a core philosophy today that you would care to share? My assumption was Roman Catholic but now I am not so sure. I am fascinated by your faith walk. I assume something disillusioned you about premill teaching.
That means that there will come a time when Gentiles will stop coming to Christ (interesting implications to the Free Will cabal's theories), then, according to many interpreters, there will be some measure of revival among the ethnic Jews
πλήρωμα
play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.
As we can see, your interpretation of the passage is completely off the mark...
It is NOT when the Gentiles lose interest in God, it IS when All of the Gentiles who are coming into the Body of Christ have arrived...(And then the Rapture)
And some measure of revival for the ethnic Jews???
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Looks like it is a revival for ALL of the Jews...
If you leave off the private interpretation and just believe what it says, you'll get a far better understanding of what God is saying...
The problem with your 'Satan is bound' fantasy is that you pick one side of the issue and leave out many of the verses that allow a student of the scripture to understand what's really going on...
You decide that Satan is bound so you pick out some verses and try to use them to prove that...
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Satan is real and alive and here right now...We are given the tools to protect ourselves from him and his minions...
Satan was bound and cast into darkness...
against the rulers of the darkness of this world
The Darkness Satan was cast into is the Earth...The Earth is Satan's domain until God sends him into 'outer' darkness...
A little bible study will clear up any false notions of what the scriptures mean...
Thanks for the ping! This thread is great!!!
Most of "Scriptures" referred to by the Fathers were the Septuagint which contain the seven books excised in the 19th century by British protestant publishers. Yet to read the silly rant the author apparently is unaware of this salient fact and her words expose the poor grasp of history. The author of the post is indicted by ignorance. To know the early church Fathers is to renounce the reformation since the substance of Catholic beliefs and doctrine are contained in their writings
Current sola scriptura/rapture types like Harold Camping and posters of the same persuasion as Camping on these sites are usually poorly educated and so they fall into traps very easily.There are 30,000 plus cults of these individuals and so the spiritual damage they cause is quite diffuse.
No. I did not? I was just pointing out one thing. He is putting a date on it tooo. After this morning after this media circus. How interesting. Heaven help us!
Opus: “As I said, proclaiming things in the Name of the Third Person of the Trinity is common to a lot of different YOPIOS.”
Quix: As well as for 100’s of Vatican Cult priests who did essentially the same thing in every ‘Mass’ they officiated at—in between their exercises with the altar boys?”
Deflecting and re-directing the conversation about the flaw in your YOPIOS is an answer in itself.
You can’t defend your theology so you DEFLECT.
YOPIOS INDEED!
if you believe the pre-trib rapture theory, then you must believe in 3 returns of Jesus.
you are correct, there will be only ONE second coming and no third coming. thus proving this pre-trib theory is nonsense.
a 19th century invention.
my friend, The Church has been going thru tribulation for 2,000 years.
God is finished with physical Israel, it is the spiritual Israel ( the Church ) that He is saving.
God only works thru the Body of Christ on earth, The Church. The question you should ask is why you aren’t in this Body?
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