Posted on 05/21/2011 4:46:26 AM PDT by marbren
Camping is a victim of replacement theology. IMHO the lie of replacement theology is almost as insidious as idolatry. The key to holistic understanding of Bible prophecy is to understand the role of Israel in it. God keeps his promises to Israel. This is a model to the rest of us that he will keep his promises to us as well.
A majority of the church going world has been victimized. I believed the lie for 35 years. During the past 20 I have been seeking the truth and only recently did I stop saying IMHO replacement theology is a lie and replaced it with: Replacement theology is a lie dropping the IMHO. For those that do not know, Replacement theology is the lie that the Church has replaced Israel in God’s plan.
The church was polluted by Replacement theology early on. Origen and Augustine, early Fathers of the church, were the first to muddy up the scriptures in this way when they arrogantly took on the mantle of Israel for themselves. Martin Luther apparently did not study it and this lead to his anti-Semitism and Hitler. In many ways IMHO it is like a reverse of the circumcision party that led to Acts 15.
This replacement theology lie has lead to the church we have today. Everyone is running around not knowing what is happening in these end times we are in. The truth is The Church, the Bride of Christ, has a role and Israel has a role. Think of men and women, children and parents, husbands and wives, angels and people, dogs and cats, sheep and goats, wheat and tares. All these have roles God invented.
So the solution: Open your Bible, drop your preconceived notions and open your mind, ask God to reveal the truth about all this Israel stuff written in the Bible. The Lord Jesus Christ is central in it all. Gods Grace and Mercy is incredible, He does all the work. Faith and hope and love permeate the entire Bible and the greatest of these is love.
One day the USA will be part of the one world government ruled by the antichrist. Israel will be the only separate nation. I see it as a superpower.
I take it that you don't buy into Divine Apartheid.
The brief version of it goes like this:
Genesis 11:1-9 The people of the earth had one language of speech and they gathered together as one nation and sought to make a name for themselves. God was displeased and then "scattered them abroad over the face of the earth"
For thousands of years man has been at each other's throat. Then we read at Pentecost, Acts 2, where men of different languages were unified under the power of the Paraclete to be one body of believers in the one name of Jesus Christ.
As the bumper sticker summarizes:"No Jesus, No Peace. Know Jesus Know Peace"
Also, you have presented yourself as a free-lance ad hoc Dispensationalist with more wisdom and spiritual knowledge than all of our forefathers since the apostles. So riddle me this: How do you deal with the "kings" not "princes" or "governors" in this end-times passage?
Rev 19:19-20 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army."This precedes your alleged Millennium where Satan is bound, and where Jesus spends the next thousand years making animal blood sacrifices to himself cooped up in the Temple. Notice the plural "kings" and "armies". How does that work out in a one-world government model? And don't say that is a people group because 13:17 distinguishes nations from "tribes and tongues" as an entity even larger that encompasses them.
Matt 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places."
Again, how do you explain separate nations and kingdoms under a one world government? With a one world government, how do you get wars? That would be like Texans dropping bombs on California and there is no intervening army or authority to stop it. Granted there is talk in other threads about an inevitable civil war, but that goes more into the theme of making more sovereign nations, not consolidation under one overbearing tyrant.
In Acts 17:26, we are shown that God has "made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings..." Why? "so that they should seek the LORD in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him.".
Interesting that God would look down at Babel, see that the people did not seek after God but would rather make a name for themselves, thus God drove them to form many nations so in doing they might seek after Him. Now the LORD who desires to be found and determines the boundaries of each nation and appoints their leaders and establishes all governments is somehow going to go against His own Revelation of Himself and make a one world government that would keep people from seeking Him.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
well.... 9:30PM ... still here
Thanks ...
They HAVE to. It is either that or say they rely on an oral tradition that somehow has never been written down in all this time. I think the real problem is laziness. There are so many people content to take up space on a pew week after week and have their theology spoon fed to them. They place all their confidence in fellow humans who have convinced them that they are way smarter and have a corner on Holy Spirit illuminated revelation. God expects better of us than that. He has given each of us a mind and a heart that is supposed to be tuned into him through his word. He indwells us with his Spirit so that we can know truth from error. I wonder how many people in Camping's group turned off that still small voice that was warning them all this time to not place their trust in man but only in God? How many will be willing to show their faces tomorrow and admit they were deceived? We'll see.
I think
“LUDICROUS” is a major stock in trade of the Vatican Cult . . . along with
IDOLATRY,
BLASPHEMY,
PRIESTLY ROMPS WITH YOUNG BOYS,
POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE,
DAFFYNITIONARIES,
RUBBERIZED HISTORIES,
RUBBERIZED PSEUDO-’BIBLES,’
and claiming that the 70% of self labeled RC’s that don’t behave at all like the Catechism directs . . . are still kosher RC’s . . .
Up against Scripture, you have no point.
no catholic, my wife is lutheran and i enjoy going with her to christmas eve service every year.
that’s not an answer. it’s funny how no one knew Jesus was to come back a second and third time, ( because that’s what the pre-trib rapture folks preach ) until the 19th century. still no one has showed me from scripture ( come on, you folks believe in sola scriptura, not me ) where it says Jesus will come a second and third time.
no my dear friends, when Jesus comes in the clouds and the Church is caught up to be with Him, it is the end of the world and judgement day!
With your understanding of Scripture - who would give you Scripture? LOL! You’ll just learn after it all happens - the Camping Way, the hard way.
don’t let Camping know this, he claims to be following “sola scriptura”.
but so do the Baptists, Presbyterians, Onesness, Brethern, Methodists, Anglicans, JW’S, etc, etc......all teaching conflicting doctrines, yet all claiming sola scriptura.
again my friends, the Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion and Jesus has One Church ( which has been here since 33ad )
Romans 9:6
Romans 11:26
Galatians 6:16
now, please tell me where it says Jesus is coming back a second and then THIRD time????
I like Vernon McGee’s response to the amillenial perspective where they believe Satan is bound in chains at present,......Vernon responded, that must be a pretty long chain, sortof how you tether a cow in a pasture,...where he can still roam over the entire Earth.
Bless his heart, Mr McGee knows the Truth now.
Apparently he didn't go "Through the Bible" enough, because he seemed to miss 2 Peter 2:4
"For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;...
FWIW, the casting into Hell and "delivered/reserved for judgement" is not future tense but is active present tense. So Peter is writing as Satan and his minions are already bound. Go ahead and continue to mock the leader of the disciples.
Jude 6-7 "And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
What? The brother of Jesus Christ is saying that Satan and his minions are presently in "everlasting chains under darkness"? Oh my, we have a conspiracy between Peter and Jude to blaspheme Dispensationalists!
What is cool here is that In Matthew 8:28-33 our LORD confronts two demon possessed men who instantly recognize Jesus as the Son of God. The question they cried out is instructive "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?
We read further to find they begged Him not to cast them into outer darkness yet, but let them "go away into the herd of swine." So apparently, at that time, they were not yet bound but surely knew their future and yet relied on God to be faithful to His Purpose and not condemn them before the appointed time.
Later, our LORD cast out another demon in the presence of the Pharisees and they accused Him of being Beezlebub because of His command over the underworld. In His reply to them that Satan doesn't cast out Satan, He immediately casts Satan as the strong man of his house (the world) and our LORD speaks of plundering his house (redeeming the Elect) but says in order to do so, "He first binds the strong man".
Shortly thereafter our LORD told the disciples that they will be given the power to "bind" the strongman. (Matt 16:19). Which as we read in Acts, they went about casting out and binding evil spirits, and those appointed to salvation increased daily.
Now the passage in Revelation 20:3 clearly states that the extent of Satan's binding is so that he can not "deceive the nations". It doesn't talk about preventing temptation, the Bible is explicit about the scope and intent of the Binding. It is the Futurist who refuses to acknowledge what the Bible actually has to say, and they replace God's Words with their own narrative.
Furthermore, in v8 we learn that shortly before the Parousia, Satan will be released so that he can resume deceiving the nations. Isn't that interesting, because Paul, when writing about the Last Days to the Church in Thessalonica says "let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first and the man of sin is revealed..."(2 Th 2:3). Our LORD said in Mk 13:22 regarding shortly before His return that "many false prophets and false christs will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive if possible, even the Elect."
So you fans of End-Times seeking surely recognize that there will be a serious uptick in deception shortly before our LORD's return. Now what did Revelation 20:8 say about the Deceiver being released? Oh yeah, shortly before The End. Coincidence, or Amillennial doctrine exemplified?
The things is, we, the people since the days of the apostles don't know what it is to live in a world with demons being able to perform signs and wonders. In pre-chain days, the Egyptian sorcerers were able to do signs and wonders that David Copperfield can't even do with significant camera tricks and CGI teams. The priests of Ba'al clearly believed that they could call down fire from the heavens since Baál's main trick was raining down fire from the heavens - so naturally, they accepted the Winner Take All dare from Elijah, and that is why the people knew that Jehovah was Almighty because Jehovah schooled Ba'al on his own turf.
So when God declares the last days as being characterized by great signs and wonders in the heavens, it will be because the demons will be unchained and the world will be restored to a pre-apostolic era where no one in the world believed the LORD because the world was deceived by the strongman.
You folks love to quote Romans 11:26, but read the previous verse "...until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." That means that there will come a time when Gentiles will stop coming to Christ (interesting implications to the Free Will cabal's theories), then, according to many interpreters, there will be some measure of revival among the ethnic Jews. A question that demands to be answered is "Why do the Gentiles, shortly before our LORD's return, stop believing in Christ?". Would it have to do, in part to any of those things we have just explored? Maybe a previously bound strongman Satan is now free to stop the plundering of his house?
Plutarch was a Greek historian, sort of that period's Indiana Jones, who traveled about collecting experiences and writing about them. An interesting article he wrote was when he came upon a pair of holy men who were upset because the oracles had decayed and stopped speaking. Without going into the details, the oracles of the ancient world, stopped "working" shortly after the apostles went through the city "binding" evil spirits. Coincidence?
So when we read in Revelation that Satan is bound, we know that he is because both Peter and Jude, under the authority of our LORD say so. We have their testimony which should be sufficient, but for those of you who don't accept the Bible as truth, I offer the empirical evidence of secular historians and the remarkable lack of god/goddess worship that had up until the late first century was common around the world since Nimrod.
People stop worshiping rocks and sticks when the bound demons no longer return signs and wonders.
So go ahead and scoff, and while you are busy joking around, please tell me, what sort of material is going to chain a spirit being - since you believe in a literal chaining up, surely a spirit being must be able to be bound by some sort of Kryptonite chain. How does that work out in your faith system?
So you can understand when I think you people are silly about signs and wonders when the junk we see is absolutely nothing compared to what the pre-apostolic people saw going on. Your claims lack inspiration. What you need to be looking for is stuff that no one has seen for thousands of years. When you see that stuff - THEN lets talk End Times and I will be cheering on the discussion.
Thank you for your encouragements!
no, sola scriptura was never practiced by the Apostles and could not have been practiced by the Catholic Church in the first few hundred years after John died. It was the sacred tradition kept by the Church that determined what books were canonical and which were not. you probably don’t know it, but there were many more books than 27 that claimed to be Scripture. only the authority of the Catholic Church ( received from Jesus Himself ) and being led by the Holy Spirit, can we know we have the correct canon.
BTW - how do you know you have the correct canon, if not by the tradition of the Catholic Church? no “sola scriptura” believer can answer that question, since the Bible does not contain an inspired table of contents. anyone brave soul want to take a crack at that one???
now, please tell me where it says Jesus is coming back a second and then THIRD time????
Nice passages. Don't expect it to cut through the concrete though. WRT to this "coming back" rhetorical exchange, they only have TWO coming backs, and THREE total visitations. The first coming was as an infant, the second is sort of a U-Turn at cruising altitude and because of its proximity of seven years, as opposed to thousands of years for the final return to make blood animal sacrifices to Himself in a temple made with human hands, they call it one trip divided up two phases. Conveniently divided up like they freely divide up the Church of God into two phases or flocks.
But I wouldn't be too smug about the three trips since the Post Millennialists demand three trips. The first in Bethlehem, the second coming in 70AD to bring to end the temple system, and the Parousia as the third.
I would lay low on that three trip antagonism, glass houses, don'tcha know.
the Church inspired by the Holy Spirit teaches us infallibly which books are canonical or not.
other than Catholic tradition, what basis do you have for knowing which is the correct canon of Scripture?
i can’t wait to hear your answer!!
i appreciate the advice, but Jesus did not return in 70ad. He will only return once, and EVERYONE will know it. no U-turns, no secret coming, no 7 year tribulation, this is all nonsense. the Creed states He will come again to judge the living and the dead, this is the Catholic Faith since 33ad, i see no reason to believe otherwise!!
Harmonize Romans 11:26 with John 8:24. Wasn’t Jesus talking to unbelieving Jews in John, yet Romans says all Israel will be saved. Weren’t the Jews in John 8, Israel???
I bought this book at the EWTN bookstore. I did not get to read it. I will look for it to read.
I bought this book at the EWTN bookstore. I did not get to read it. I will look for it to read.
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