Posted on 05/21/2011 4:46:26 AM PDT by marbren
Camping is a victim of replacement theology. IMHO the lie of replacement theology is almost as insidious as idolatry. The key to holistic understanding of Bible prophecy is to understand the role of Israel in it. God keeps his promises to Israel. This is a model to the rest of us that he will keep his promises to us as well.
A majority of the church going world has been victimized. I believed the lie for 35 years. During the past 20 I have been seeking the truth and only recently did I stop saying IMHO replacement theology is a lie and replaced it with: Replacement theology is a lie dropping the IMHO. For those that do not know, Replacement theology is the lie that the Church has replaced Israel in God’s plan.
The church was polluted by Replacement theology early on. Origen and Augustine, early Fathers of the church, were the first to muddy up the scriptures in this way when they arrogantly took on the mantle of Israel for themselves. Martin Luther apparently did not study it and this lead to his anti-Semitism and Hitler. In many ways IMHO it is like a reverse of the circumcision party that led to Acts 15.
This replacement theology lie has lead to the church we have today. Everyone is running around not knowing what is happening in these end times we are in. The truth is The Church, the Bride of Christ, has a role and Israel has a role. Think of men and women, children and parents, husbands and wives, angels and people, dogs and cats, sheep and goats, wheat and tares. All these have roles God invented.
So the solution: Open your Bible, drop your preconceived notions and open your mind, ask God to reveal the truth about all this Israel stuff written in the Bible. The Lord Jesus Christ is central in it all. Gods Grace and Mercy is incredible, He does all the work. Faith and hope and love permeate the entire Bible and the greatest of these is love.
I tell you what...this religion stuff. It’s hard to know exactly what to believe.
When you start down the path of Sola Scriptura you are walking hand and hand with Satan. Camping's tribulations are the result of SOLA SCRIPTURA and to deny that is to be spiritually bankrupt.
I think they’ve been celebrating my FR straight jacket too much to bother. Or, maybe they’ve been loading up for the next round of irrational, tunnel visioned, TYPE I ERROR laden blasts.
All you need to do is start learning about the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Everything else fades into the shadows then.
That doesn't negate the fact that what the Holy Spirit tells us will happen with regard to the literal return of Christ and His literal reign on earth is absolute, literal truth and is going to happen just as certainly as the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah were fulfilled in the Person of Jesus Christ.
During the Church Age, Jesus does rule in the hearts of those who know Him as Savior. But this age is coming to a close, and the rest of Scripture is just as factual as the Scripture which tells us that those of us who know Christ are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
The Bible is absolute, inerrant truth from the first word in Genesis to the last word in Revelation. And all that is prophesied about the return of Christ is going to happen.
The Church is the new Israel of God, not the Hebrew people. The Holy place of God is the Church, not some rebuilt Temple in physical Jerusalem. Jerusalem ( the Church ) is surrounded by armies, read the paper!!
Oh dear. You're further gone than I thought. I can't imagine the denial of Scripture that goes into coming to the conclusion that you have.
From http://www.gotquestions.org/replacement-theology.html
snip
Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1900 years?
The view that Israel and the church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. Biblically speaking, the church is completely different and distinct from Israel, and the two are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the day of Pentecost and will continue until it is taken to heaven at the rapture (Ephesians 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17). The church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings are valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God's program during these past 2000 years of dispersion.
After the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18), God will restore Israel as the primary focus of His plan. The first event at this time is the tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The world will be judged for rejecting Christ, while Israel is prepared through the trials of the great tribulation for the second coming of the Messiah. Then, when Christ does return to the earth, at the end of the tribulation, Israel will be ready to receive Him. The remnant of Israel which survives the tribulation will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital. With Christ reigning as King, Israel will be the leading nation, and representatives from all nations will come to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King—Jesus Christ. The church will return with Christ and will reign with Him for a literal thousand years (Revelation 20:1-5).
...the strongest support for premillennialism is found in the clear teaching of Revelation 20:1-7, where it says six times that Christ's kingdom will last 1000 years. After the tribulation the Lord will return and establish His kingdom with the nation of Israel, Christ will reign over the whole earth, and Israel will be the leader of the nations. The church will reign with Him for a literal thousand years. The church has not replaced Israel in God's plan. While God may be focusing His attention primarily on the church in this dispensation of grace, God has not forgotten Israel and will one day restore Israel to His intended role as the nation He has chosen (Romans 11).
I guess you have to make a choice - deny what God has clearly said about His chosen people and remain mired in ignorance and error, or simply accept the fact that the Jews are His chosen people, they have been blinded temporarily because of their disobedience but that blindness will be lifted and they will be restored into a relationship with their God. Nowhere in Scripture does God even hint that the Church is the new Israel or that the Church has replaced Israel. No one has ever been able to produce any Biblical passages to support replacement theology. All a person does by clinging to this heresy is put himself at enmity with God. A very dangerous place to be, since God never loses.
your problem is you don’t understand what the Church is and it’s importance according to the Scriptures.
You're problem is that you're so desperate to cling to your false doctrines that you have no problem denying Scripture and allegorizing it and twisting it to fit your heresy. You have provided no Scripture whatsoever to support your false doctrine.
and yes, your beliefs are a 19th century invention, just like Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists!!
You have been emphatically proven wrong, and yet you cling to your lies like a lifeline. I notice that you didn't bring up one verse of Scripture I referred you to and you didn't bring it up because Scripture absolutely demolishes your beliefs. So, in the end, you discard the truth of Scripture for your man-created lies.
I feel very sorry for you.
By picking and choosing, you can "prove" anything you want. Believe in what feels right.
An interesting question.
I’d love to see Marbren, Uriel 2012, Alamo-Girl and some others’ thoughtful responses on that question.
My own conjecture is that there will always be blood Israeli’s serving in key ceremonial/leader roles in whatever main literal TEMPLE exists. I think there are several Scriptures that could be taken to hint at that. Words like “for ever” and “everlasting” are used in describing the tenure of such priestly roles of such blood descendents, IIRC.
I don’t doubt that grafted in Christians will be right up there in the ranks in a list of ways and senses. I just think God has a penchant for doing as I noted above as a nod and honor to His buddy Abraham.
There seems to be two themes throughout Scripture in terms of God’s sensibilities on such matters.
One, Everyone is equal before the altar, before the throne, before The Cross—in terms of worth as created in God’s image.
Two, some are given roles and honors that are at least tentatively and provisionally passed down faithfully genetically in a DIVINE RIGHT OF KINGS sort of fashion.
For example, I would not be surprised to see the literal King David ruline in Jerusalem under Christ. At least one Scripture hints or stronger at that.
Three, Individuality is evidently priceless to God. I think efforts to homogenize a class of genetically engineered human robotic slaves is extremely abhorent to God.
Four, tribal purity and integrity has some . . . value, priority to The Lord. That case is a bit harder to build but I think there’s several Old Testament Scriptures that hint at it. He certainly didn’t want Israel marrying willy nilly.
Of course that had to do with avoiding idol worship etc. But I’m not convinced those were the only reasons for that PREFERENCE on God’s part.
God seems to be both a sort of TRADITIONALIST AS WELL AS CONTINUALLY CREATING ALL THINGS NEW.
When you start down the path of Sola Scriptura you are walking hand and hand with Satan.
You know, I think I might agree with that if even one verse of Scripture had been proven to be false. But somehow, the Bible, alone and without the added writings of(mostly dead) fallen men, has been shown over the years to be inerrant truth, without mistake and without blemish. I mean, all we have to do is look at all the fulfilled prophecies to know without one shred of doubt that the Bible is the inspired word of the living God and has not one untruth or error in it.
Based on those facts, I simply can't reconcile that believing the Bible is the final authority is walking hand in hand with Satan. That's kind of bizarre, actually, considering that God said He is the Author of Scripture.
NONSENSE. There’s AT LEAST
AS MANY
factions within the Vatican Alice In Wonderland School of Theology And Reality Mangling Cult
as there are Proddy denominations.
Are you REALLLLLY trying to tell us that the Jesuits and the Latin ONLY mass folks have been bossom buddies for 1600 years? LOL.
What a smelly pile of farce.
It is at best, grossly irresponsible, and more likely criminal. While I don't hold that the current political state of Israel has any special place in God's Redemptive Plan for His people, I believe that America needs to fiercely defend her for at least a couple of reasons. First, Israel is our best ally in the Middle East. Second, allowing Israel to fall to the Palestinian Muslims would lead to a great genocide. Finally, I hope the Holy Spirit will enlighten the people of Israel and they will realize that their Messiah has already come.
Regardless, I simply wanted to point out the standard Catholic bashing.
OF COURSE
BY AND WITH the standard Proddy bashing.
Ain’t the self-righteous, smug, arrogant, UnBiblical, irrational, Unhistorical, duplicitous, hypocritical !!!!TRADITIONAL!!!! stance of the Vatican Cult . . . incredible!
INDEED.
Jesus is coming again ONCE, not twice. When you understand that simple fact, your false teaching is very plain to see.
Got the Scripture to prove your assertion?
However, as has been said . . .
a worst thing would have been no publicity at all in the conventional media about the eternal issues of Christ Coming again.
There’s nothing like a controversy and a chance to bash 2ND COMING BELIEVING CHRISTIANS
to get publicity really ramped up.
I think it’s dreadful and will mangle many people. However, I suspect that the ledger at the end of the day will show how God used it to the benefit of The Kingdom in causing many people to think, question and search out the Scriptures on their own—that they would not have done otherwise.
Matthew 24, Jesus says His coming is singular, not plural. One second coming, no third coming.
Your links don’t seem to work for me.
Other than
TRUTH TELLERS, that is.
It is Sola Scriptura not the bible which is under intense scrutiny and Camping used Sola Scriptura to drive many from the saving graces of Jesus.
This incident with Camping has made Christianity a laughingstock to the secular humanistic crowd and all the believers can do is distance themselves from the rapture and evangelical types to preserve the Faith for ourselves.
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