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Comparing LDS Beliefs with First-Century Christianity (REAL Mormon / LDS)
LDS.org ^ | Daniel C. Peterson and Stephen D. Ricks

Posted on 03/29/2011 3:19:02 PM PDT by Paragon Defender

Comparing LDS Beliefs with First-Century Christianity

 

 

 

By Daniel C. Peterson and Stephen D. Ricks

Daniel C. Peterson and Stephen D. Ricks, "Comparing LDS Beliefs with First-Century Christianity", Ensign, Mar. 1988, 7

 

 

 

Latter-day Saints reject the doctrines of the Trinity as taught by most Christian churches today. These creeds were canonized in the fourth and fifth centuries A.D. and do not reflect the thinking or beliefs of the New Testament church.

 

 

 

Since the inception of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, many critics have denied that it is Christian. Surprisingly, the basis for the claim has little to do with the standard definition of Christian: anyone or any group that believes in Jesus Christ as the Savior and Son of God. Rather, it has to do with Latter-day Saint doctrines that some feel are alien to “traditional Christianity,” where “traditional Christianity” means that body of beliefs held by most present-day Christian churches. The argument essentially goes that if the LDS church believes in certain doctrines not believed in by most present-day Christian churches, then the LDS church cannot be Christian.

The problem with this argument is that the major doctrines under attack are amazingly similar to Christian beliefs held during the New Testament period and the generations immediately following.

Does the New Testament define Christianity?

The Gospels lack any explicit treatment of the word Christian. Indeed, the word appears only three times in the New Testament, and never from the mouth of Christ himself. The word Christianity is entirely absent from the New Testament.

Acts 11:26 tells us that “the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.” Here, the passive construction “were called Christians” suggests that the term was first used not by Christians, but by non-Christians. (Similarly, the names Yankee and Mormon were first used by outsiders.)

The term was probably modeled on such words as Herodian and Caesarian, already in circulation at that time, and meant nothing more complicated than Christ’s people or, perhaps, partisans of Christ. Note that the Christian congregation at Antioch represented a wide range of backgrounds, including Jews and non-Jews. These believers displayed the whole spectrum of attitudes toward the Jewish law—from continued adherence to the traditions of Judaism to rejection of all things Jewish.

The next mention of the term Christian is in Acts 26:28, where Agrippa makes his famous reply to Paul: “Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.” The Apostle had related to Agrippa and Festus the story of his conversion. The doctrinal content of Paul’s speech is simple and straightforward: Paul bears witness that Jesus had been foretold by the Jewish prophets, that he suffered and rose from the dead, and that forgiveness may be obtained through him. Paul described Christ’s mission as summoning people to “repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.” (Acts 26:20.) The scriptural account gives no indication that Paul had to correct Agrippa’s use of the word Christian to describe one who believes in these basic doctrines.

First Peter 4:16 is the last instance of the word’s appearance in the New Testament. This verse is virtually without doctrinal definition, merely assuring the believer that he need not be ashamed if he suffer as a “Christian.” Even here, the term may be one that persecuting outsiders were using. It may have derived from current Roman, that is, non-Christian, legal usage.

In each of these instances, the term appears to originate from someone outside the community of believers themselves. In neither of the two passages from Acts does Paul use the word himself; it is non-Christians who use it. Where the term is used, the stated and implied beliefs of the Christians are far different from the present-day beliefs used to deny that Latter-day Saints are Christians, as can be clearly shown.

Is it true that because Latter-day Saints reject the traditional doctrine of the Trinity, they are not Christians?

The Church’s first Article of Faith is “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” This is a straightforward statement of belief that there are three members in the Godhead. However, Latter-day Saints do reject the doctrines of the Trinity as taught by most Christian churches today. For the most part, these creeds—the most famous of which is the Nicene Creed—were canonized in the fourth and fifth centuries A.D. following centuries of debate about the nature of the Godhead. Consequently, it is highly questionable whether these creeds reflect the thinking or beliefs of the New Testament church.

“The exact theological definition of the doctrine of the Trinity,” notes J. R. Dummelow, “was the result of a long process of development, which was not complete until the fifth century, or maybe even later.” 1 As Bill Forrest remarks, “To insist that a belief in the Trinity is requisite to being Christian, is to acknowledge that for centuries after the New Testament was completed thousands of Jesus’ followers were in fact not really ‘Christian.’” 2 Certainly the revelatory manner by which Joseph Smith learned of the doctrine of the Godhead pierces through the centuries-old debate on the subject.

Is it true that because Latter-day Saints believe that human beings can eventually become like God, they are not Christian?

As even a cursory glance at early Christian thought reveals, the idea that man might become as God—known in Greek as theosis or theopoiesis—may be found virtually everywhere, from the New Testament through the writings of the first four centuries. Church members take seriously such passages as Psalm 82:6 [Ps. 82:6], John 10:33–36, and Philippians 2:5–6 [Philip. 2:5–6], in which a plurality of gods and the idea of becoming like God are mentioned.

The notion of theosis is characteristic of church fathers Irenaeus (second century A.D.), Clement of Alexandria (third century A.D.), and Athanasius (fourth century A.D.). Indeed, so pervasive was the doctrine in the fourth century that Athanasius’s archenemies, the Arians, also held the belief 3 and the Origenist monks at Jerusalem heatedly debated “whether all men would finally become like Christ or whether Christ was really a different creature.” 4

According to an ancient formula, “God became man that man might become God.” Early Christians “were invited to ‘study’ to become gods” (note the plural). 5

Though the idea of human deification waned in the Western church in the Middle Ages, it remained very much alive in the Eastern Orthodox faith, which includes such Christian sects today as the Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox churches. 6 Jaroslav Pelikan notes, “The chief idea of St. Maximus, as of all Eastern theology, [was] the idea of deification.” 7

Is the subject of deification truly a closed question? After all, echoes of man becoming like God are still found in the work of later and modern writers in the West. For instance, C. S. Lewis’s writings are full of the language of human deification. 8 Even Martin Luther was capable of speaking of the “deification of human nature,” although in what sense it is not clear. 9

Related to the claim that Latter-day Saints are not Christians because of their belief in deification is the assertion that if they hold to some kind of belief in deification then it must be that Church members do not view Jesus as uniquely divine. Such an assertion is totally erroneous. The phrase “Only Begotten Son” occurs with its variants at least ten times in the Book of Mormon, fourteen times in the Doctrine and Covenants, and nineteen times in the Pearl of Great Price. Basic to Latter-day Saint theology is the uniqueness of Jesus Christ as the Only Begotten Son of the Father in the flesh.

Is it true that because Latter-day Saints practice baptism for the dead, they are not Christian?

The argument that Latter-day Saints cannot be Christians because they practice baptism for the dead presumes that it has been definitely established that 1 Corinthians 15:29 [1 Cor. 15:29] has nothing to do with an early Christian practice of baptism for the dead. The argument ignores the fact that such second-century groups as the Montanists and Marcionites—who are invariably referred to as Christians—practiced a similar rite. The practice was condemned in A.D. 393 by the Council of Hippo, which certainly implies that it was still a vital issue. 10 As Hugh Nibley has shown in great detail, many of the Church Fathers understood this verse literally, even when they did not always know what to make of it. 11

Mormon temple ritual in general is another source of controversy, largely because many think that the reticence to talk about it is not Christian. But the New Testament scholar Joachim Jeremias has shown that “the desire to keep the most sacred things from profanation”—a concern shared by the Latter-day Saints—is widely found in the New Testament and in the early Christian community. 12

The second-century church father Ignatius of Antioch was known to have held “secret” doctrines. The historian Tertullian (second century A.D.) even takes the heretics to task because they provide access to their services to everyone without distinction. As a result, the demeanor of these heretics becomes frivolous, merely human, without seriousness and without authority. 13

The pagan critic Celsus (second century A.D.) probably referred to Christianity as a “secret system of belief” because access to the various ordinances of the church—baptism and the sacrament—was available only to the initiated. In his response to Celsus, Origen (third century A.D.) readily admitted that many practices and doctrines were not available to everyone, but he argues that this was not unique to Christianity. 14 As late as the fourth century, some groups were making efforts to return to an earlier Christian tradition of preserving certain doctrines and practices for the initiated only. 15

Is it true that because Latter-day Saints do not accept the Bible as their sole authority in faith and doctrine, they are not Christians?

Latter-day Saints accept the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price as scriptural, in addition to the Bible. But the whole question of canon—which writings are sacred, inspired, and binding on disciples—has always been a complicated one in the history of traditional Christianity.

In the earliest period of the Christian church, it is difficult to see a distinction being made between canonical writings and some books not in the present Protestant canon. For example, the Epistle of Jude draws heavily on noncanonical books such as 1 Enoch and The Assumption of Moses. As E. Isaac says of 1 Enoch, “It influenced Matthew, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, Hebrews, 1 John, Jude (which quotes it directly) and Revelation (with numerous points of contact) … in molding New Testament doctrines concerning the nature of the Messiah, the Son of Man, the messianic kingdom, demonology, the future, resurrection, the final judgment, the whole eschatological theater, and symbolism.” 16

The so-called Muratorian Fragment, dating from the late second century A.D., shows that some Christians of the period accepted the Apocalypse of Peter as scripture. Clement of Alexandria, writing around A.D. 200, seems to admit a New Testament canon of thirty books, including the Epistle of Barnabas, the Epistle of Clement, and the Preaching of Peter. Origen recognized the Epistle of Barnabas and the letter from the Shepherd of Hermas. 17

Even in more recent times, the question of canon has not been unanimously resolved. Martin Luther characterized the Epistle of James as “an epistle of straw”—largely because it seemed to disagree with his teaching of justification by faith alone—and mistrusted the book of Revelation. 18 Roman Catholics and the Orthodox churches tend to accept the Apocrypha as canonical—books included in their Bibles but left out of most Protestant Bibles, including the current King James Version. In fact, Eastern Orthodox churches have never settled the question of canon. A number of scholars have pointed out that the church has priority, both logically and historically, over the Bible—that is, a group of believers existed before a certain body of texts, such as the books of the Old and New Testament, were declared canonical. 19

Is it true that because Latter-day Saints deny the doctrine of original sin, they are not Christian?

The notion of original sin as it is usually understood today in traditional Christianity is a distinctly late invention that evolved from the controversies of the fourth and fifth centuries. Tertullian (second century A.D.), who was very concerned with the idea of sin, says nothing of the doctrine of original sin. Indeed, very few of the Church Fathers up to the fourth century show any interest in it at all. It was not clearly enunciated until Augustine (fourth/fifth century) needed it in his battle with the Christian Pelagians, who denied the doctrine, and it came to be associated with the Council of Carthage in A.D. 418. 20

As Norbert Brox points out, “Pelagian theology was the traditional one, especially in Rome. But the Africans, under the theological leadership of Augustine, managed to make their charge of heresy stick within the church, thereby establishing the Augustinian theology of grace as the basis of the Western tradition.” 21 Some modern scholars now raise the issue that Augustine, and not Pelagius, was the real heretic. 22

Is it true that because Latter-day Saints reject the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, they are not Christians?

Perhaps the most famous statement of the Latter-day Saint understanding of the relation between grace and works is in 2 Nephi 25:23: “It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” [2 Ne. 25:23] This idea is sometimes called synergism—a term Van A. Harvey has used to describe Roman Catholicism. 23

The doctrine that salvation depends both on God’s grace and man’s good works is very old in Catholic theology. One of the canons at the Council of Trent specifically repudiates the notion of grace alone: “If anyone saith that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sin for Christ’s sake alone; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified, let him be anathema.” 24 Are we to say, then, that Roman Catholicism is not Christian because it does not subscribe to the doctrine of salvation by grace alone?

The doctrine of salvation through faith alone, sometimes called solafidianism, is not a biblical doctrine: there are no instances in the New Testament of the phrases “grace alone” or “faith alone.” The philosopher-theologian Frederick Sontag argues that Jesus himself was interested not in words, and not even in theological dogma, but in action: For the Jesus in Matthew, he says, “Action is more important than definition.” 25 Richard Lloyd Anderson shows that even in Paul’s major treatments of the doctrine of grace, particularly in Romans and Ephesians, there is a balancing element of works as well. 26 Other New Testament writers, most notably James, make it clear that saving faith can only be recognized through works: “Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17.)

The generations immediately following the New Testament period also recognized the need for both grace and works for salvation. The famous Didache—The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles—which dates back to before A.D. 70, is conspicuous for its moralism and legalism. 27 It is also significant that “the oldest datable literary document of Christian religion soon after the time of the Apostles”—the letter of Clement of Rome to the Corinthians, written in the last decade of the first century—emphasizes “good works, as it is in the Epistle of James, which may belong to the same time.” 28 The second-century document Shepherd of Hermas contains twelve commandments. J. L. Gonzales writes that they “are a summary of the duties of a Christian, and Hermas affirms that in obeying them there is eternal life.” 29

Even F. F. Bruce, who contends that Paul taught a doctrine of salvation by grace alone, concurs sadly that the doctrine was not a part of the early Christian church: “The Biblical doctrine of divine grace, God’s favour shown to sinful humanity, … seems almost, in the post-apostolic age, to reappear only with Augustine. Certainly the majority of Christian writers who flourished between the apostles and Augustine do not seem to have grasped what Paul was really getting at. … Marcion has been called the only one of these writers who understood Paul.” 30

Marcion, incidentally, was a second-century gnostic Christian who distinguished between the gods of the Old and New Testament. He felt that the Old Testament deity was a lesser deity than the God of the New Testament and rejected the Old Testament entirely, as well as any New Testament writing “tainted” with Old Testament ideas. Marcion produced a canon of scripture that recognized no Apostle of Jesus except Paul. He considered the other Apostles falsifiers of God.

By contrast, in the fourth century, one prominent Christian bishop was teaching the necessity of rituals. “If any man receive not Baptism,” wrote Cyril of Jerusalem, “he hath not salvation.” He also wrote about an ordinance of anointing, which he called “chrism”: “Having been counted worthy of this Holy Chrism, ye are called Christians. … For before you were deemed worthy of this grace, ye had no proper claim to that title.” 31

The Eastern Orthodox churches also do not accept solafidianism, the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. “Eastern Orthodox Christians emphasize a unity of faith and works. For the Orthodox, being conformed to the image of Christ … includes a response of our faith and works.” 32 Sensing the danger that a “grace alone” position could become “cheap grace” (to borrow an expression from the theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer) or “a theologically thin, no-sweat Christianity,” some modern Protestant writers have adopted a similar position, recognizing that works also play a vital role in salvation. 33

With so many other past and present Christians rejecting the position that grace alone brings salvation, excluding the Latter-day Saints from “Christianity” for their belief in faith and works is not justified.

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints easily meet the definition of a Christian as implicitly defined in the New Testament: they believe that ancient prophets foretold Christ’s coming, that Jesus Christ suffered for our transgressions, that he was put to death but rose from the dead, that through him we may obtain forgiveness of our sins, and that he will come again in glory.

The doctrinal reasons some Christians give for excluding the Latter-day Saints from Christianity make little sense, because many of the doctrines used by traditional Christianity are late developments, reflective of creeds formulated in the fourth and fifth century or developed during the Reformation.

Given the wide variety of beliefs among the various Christian churches, it is better to take persons claiming to be Christians at their word and to let the Lord be the judge.

 

 

 

 

 


TOPICS: Other Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: antichristianitypap; christianity; ctr; cult; heresy; inman; lds; mormon
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To: Elsie
They wuz confused by that EARLIER statement: Let US make man in OUR image.

You are quoting an English translation.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
81 posted on 03/29/2011 7:32:55 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Chaguito
Any discussion of doctrinal interpretation is ultimately irrelevant.

There ya go!

82 posted on 03/29/2011 7:33:59 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

I like that. And I didn’t have to pray over it or have a burning bosom and all that.


83 posted on 03/29/2011 7:36:54 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("If You Don't Read The News You're Uninformed, If You Do Read The News You're Misinformed")
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To: Utah Binger
You are working much too hard my brother.

You are in disagreement with my wife. To her, I'm not working hard enough.

But BOTH of you want me to move my caboose from this chair!

84 posted on 03/29/2011 7:37:02 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Dang. I so much wanted to be one. Ok, well being a Jewish princes isn’t all that bad I guess.


85 posted on 03/29/2011 7:38:02 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("If You Don't Read The News You're Uninformed, If You Do Read The News You're Misinformed")
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

It’s my first language.

(And apparently my last, as well.)


86 posted on 03/29/2011 7:38:31 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

Okay, so to you Yashua is not Messiah. Got it.


87 posted on 03/29/2011 7:39:12 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("If You Don't Read The News You're Uninformed, If You Do Read The News You're Misinformed")
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

John 10:32-36
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


88 posted on 03/29/2011 7:40:12 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

How can the LDS church keep their members so uniformed and so misguided???


89 posted on 03/29/2011 7:40:32 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("If You Don't Read The News You're Uninformed, If You Do Read The News You're Misinformed")
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To: Elsie
 The Prophet Joseph’s inspired additions to the BIBLE teach us that before the Son said, “It is finished,” He addressed the Father.
 
See some differences between GOD's Word and the Joseph Smith's 'translation'
 


 
 
 
 
Color coding explanation:


Added stuff...                                                                                                    Changed stuff...                        Rearranged stuff...                                                                    Removed stuff...

*(UNDERLINED stuff is the DISTRACTING reference on every fifth word that infuses LDS 'scripture' online.)
 
 
 
 
 

JOSEPH SMITH—MATTHEW
An extract from the translation of the Bible as revealed to Joseph Smith the Prophet in 1831: Matthew 23: 39 and chapter 24.
Jesus foretells the impending destruction of Jerusalem—He also discourses on the second coming of the Son of Man, and the destruction of the wicked.
 
  1 aFor I say unto you, that ye shall not see me henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he who bcometh in the name of the Lord, in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and ccrowned on the right hand of God.
  2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple; and his disciples came to him, for to ahear him, saying: Master, show us concerning the buildings of the temple, as thou hast said—They shall be thrown down, and left unto you desolate.
  3 And Jesus said unto them: See ye not all these things, and do ye not understand them? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here, upon this temple, one astone upon another that shall not be thrown down.
  4 And Jesus left them, and went upon the Mount of Olives. And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be which thou hast said concerning the destruction of the temple, and the Jews; and what is the asign of thy bcoming, and of the cend of the world, or the destruction of the dwicked, which is the end of the world?
  5 And Jesus answered, and said unto them: Take heed that no man deceive you;
  6 For many shall come in my name, saying—I am aChrist—and shall deceive many;
  7 Then shall they deliver you up to be aafflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be bhated of all nations, for my name’s sake;
  8 And then shall many be aoffended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another;
  9 And many afalse prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many;
  10 And because iniquity shall abound, the alove of many shall wax cold;
  11 But he that remaineth asteadfast and is not overcome, the same shall be saved.
  12 When you, therefore, shall see the aabomination of bdesolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of cJerusalem, then you shall stand in the dholy place; whoso readeth let him understand.
  13 Then let them who are in Judea flee into the amountains;
  14 Let him who is on the housetop flee, and not return to take anything out of his house;
  15 Neither let him who is in the field return back to take his clothes;
  16 And wo unto them that are with achild, and unto them that give suck in those days;
  17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;
  18 For then, in those days, shall be great atribulation on the bJews, and upon the inhabitants of cJerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.
  19 All things which have befallen them are only the beginning of the sorrows which shall come upon them.
  20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be asaved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the bcovenant, those days shall be shortened.
  21 Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not;
  22 For in those days there shall also arise false aChrists, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.
  23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the aelect’s sake; and you also shall hear of bwars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.
  24 Behold, I have told you before;
  25 Wherefore, if they shall say unto you: Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not;
  26 For as the light of the morning cometh out of the aeast, and shineth even unto the west, and covereth the whole earth, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
  27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the acarcass is, there will the eagles be bgathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.
  28 And they shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars.
  29 Behold I speak for mine elect’s sake; for nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be afamines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
  30 And again, because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax acold; but he that shall not be overcome, the same shall be saved.
  31 And again, this aGospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all bnations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked;
  32 And again shall the aabomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled.
  33 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the asun shall be bdarkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the cstars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
  34 Verily, I say unto you, this ageneration, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.
  35 Although, the days will come, that heaven and earth shall pass away; yet my awords shall not pass away, but all shall be fulfilled.
  36 And, as I said before, after the atribulation of those days, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth bmourn; and they shall see the cSon of Man dcoming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory;
  37 And whoso atreasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall bcome, and he shall send his cangels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the dremainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
  38 Now learn a parable of the afig-tree—When its branches are yet tender, and it begins to put forth leaves, you know that summer is nigh at hand;
  39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;
  40 But of that day, and hour, no one aknoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.
  41 But as it was in the days of aNoah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;
  42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the aflood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;
  43 And aknew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
  44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the alast days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other bleft;
  45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;
  46 And what I say unto one, I say unto all men; awatch, therefore, for you know not at what hour your Lord doth come.
  47 But know this, if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to have been broken up, but would have been ready.
  48 Therefore be ye also aready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh.
  49 Who, then, is a afaithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
  50 Blessed is that aservant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing; and verily I say unto you, he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
  51 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord adelayeth his coming,
  52 And shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken,
  53 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
  54 And shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and agnashing of teeth.
  55 And thus cometh the aend of the wicked, according to the prophecy of Moses, saying: They shall be cut off from among the people; but the end of the earth is not yet, but by and by.

KJV Matthew 23:38-39  24:1-51
 
 
 
 
 
 39.  For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
 

 1.  And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
 2.  And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
 3.  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 4.  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
 5.  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
 6.  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
 7.  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
 8.  All these are the beginning of sorrows.
 9.  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
 10.  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
 11.  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
 12.  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
 13.  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 14.  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
 15.  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
 16.  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
 17.  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
 18.  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
 19.  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
 20.  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
 21.  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 22.  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
 23.  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
 24.  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
 25.  Behold,
I have told you before.
 26.  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
 27.  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 28.  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
 29.  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 30.  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 31.  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 32.  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
 33.  So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
 34.  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
 35.  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
 36.  But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
 37.  But as the days of Noe were,
so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 38.  For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

 39.  And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 40.  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
 41.  Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
 42.  Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
 43.  But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
 44.  Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
 45.  Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
 46.  Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
 47.  Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
 48.  But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
 49.  And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
 50.  The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
  51.  And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
 
 
 
King James Version of the Holy Bible
Public domain
 
 

90 posted on 03/29/2011 7:43:32 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: F15Eagle
(King James Version)

I worry a little about this "revised and reduced" version a little bit....why not use the original???

91 posted on 03/29/2011 7:46:55 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: Elsie
It’s my first language.

(And apparently my last, as well.)

Rashi wrote on Gen 1:26
"G-d created man" and it does not say "They created."
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
92 posted on 03/29/2011 7:46:55 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: lastchance; All

Is this a caucus thread?


Hello there! No. It was shown that using the Caucus designation means nothing.

That’s fine it’s their board and can do whatever they want obviously. I just don’t use the designation any more and watch the mob rally about with their virtual torches and pitchforks.

It’s still a true article no matter.


93 posted on 03/29/2011 7:47:34 PM PDT by Paragon Defender (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil....)
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To: Paragon Defender
Is it true that because Latter-day Saints reject the traditional doctrine of the Trinity, they are not Christians?

Yes

94 posted on 03/29/2011 7:48:08 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Paragon Defender
Is it true that because Latter-day Saints believe that human beings can eventually become like God, they are not Christian?

Yes

95 posted on 03/29/2011 7:49:09 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Paragon Defender
Is it true that because Latter-day Saints practice baptism for the dead, they are not Christian?

Yes

96 posted on 03/29/2011 7:50:05 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: SkyDancer
Okay, so to you Yashua is not Messiah. Got it.

That is incorrect.

97 posted on 03/29/2011 7:50:19 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

Burning mormonic bosoms placemarker


98 posted on 03/29/2011 7:50:40 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: bwc2221
Christians send missionaries to third world countries. Mormons concentrate on converting people in Christian countries. Like Mitt, when he was “roughing it” in France to avoid ‘Nam: “Hey guys, it’s noon and we’re out of brochures. Let’s hit the topless beach and look for converts.”

that was a pathetic post

99 posted on 03/29/2011 7:51:09 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: Paragon Defender
Is it true that because Latter-day Saints do not accept the Bible as their sole authority in faith and doctrine, they are not Christians?

Yes

100 posted on 03/29/2011 7:51:14 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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