Newspaper Exegesis and Egypt

American Vision ^ | February 15, 2011 | Gary DeMar

[topcat54]

Now let’s get down to where the real problem with all this hand wringing over prophetic signs. Given dispensational prophetic presuppositions, there can’t be any prophetic events or preparation of prophetic events this side of what dispensationalists call the “rapture.” If the “rapture” is “imminent,” that is, if it can come at “any moment” and could have come at any moment for the past 2000 years, then it has to be a “signless event.” Keep in mind that I am not a dispensationalist. What I’m about to show is the major flaw in so much talks about “signs of the end” by doing an internal critique of the system that is claiming that “we are beginning to see the consummation of all things.”

[topcat54]

"If the prophetic calendar had to wait until Israel became a nation again in 1948 or Egypt overthrew its rulers or the Soviet Union fell, then the so-called rapture could not have been imminent before these events took place. It’s the biggest flaw in modern-day prophetic speculation that dispensationalists don’t want to talk about."

[Cronos]

“Egypt overthrew its rulers “ —> which rulers? When the Brits left? Or when Nasser overthrew the king? Or when Sadat was pushed out? Or Mubarak’s exit?

[Wings-n-Wind]

These present-day events are more accurately likened to the onset or increase in "birth pains" of Matthew 24.

While not specifically placed as required pieces of the prophetic puzzle--

It seems there are many prophetic implications and repeated cycles of prophetic fulfillment in play....

Almost as if we are seeing the "setting the stage" and /or "rehearsals" for the events that wlll finally set in motion the "performance" geo-political and military forces leading to the culmination of global history and eventually, The Return.

Ergo --

The high bar of specific Biblical prophetic fulfillments isn't necessarily in place -- in order to correctly discern the times and seasons of the Lord.

Just my humble--

For Gary and the hard work of American Vision
Thanks for all you do....

Blessings...

[topcat54]

These present-day events are more accurately likened to the onset or increase in "birth pains" of Matthew 24.

Did you read the quotes in the article from MacArthur and the other “signless” futurists? There are no “birth pangs” prior to the futurist rapture. This was the position of classic dispensationalism until it got co-opted by Hal Lindsey and Co. who found out they could sells lot of books by making Israel the focus of prophecy and predicting the rapture based on certain timing events.

[mombonn]

Thank you for finding and posting this.

[DannyTN]

definition of "imminent" depends on your perspective. It's written that a 1000 years is as a day with the Lord, so from His perspective, it could still be 2000 years off, and still be "imminent".

It's written that no man knows the day or hour, but Jesus told us to recognize the season. There may well be prophecies like Israel returning as a nation, that precedes the rapture, that may identify the season, but it doesn't identify the day.

That is unlike the Mid-Trib people who believe Jesus returns 3.5 years after the 7 year peace treaty is signed. In such a case, you'd pretty accurately know when Jesus was returning, if you can spot the correct treaty being signed.

[topcat54]

It's written that a 1000 years is as a day with the Lord, so from His perspective, it could still be 2000 years off, and still be "imminent".

2 Peter 3:8 Abuse Alert!!!

[DannyTN]

"2 Peter 3:8 Abuse Alert!!!"

lol, certainly no worse than hanging an entire argument that no prophecies can be on this side of the rapture, on the word "imminent".

[topcat54]

lol, certainly no worse than hanging an entire argument that no prophecies can be on this side of the rapture, on the word "imminent".

That’s the classic dispensational argument. You need to take it up with them.

[DannyTN]

That Israel would become a nation again is clearly seen in Zech 10-12. Zechariah writing after the Babylonian exile wrote of an exile where Israel would be cast off to far countries and then would be gathered back into the land.

This was unlike the Babylon exile where they were exiled to a single country. The nearly 2000 year exile of Israel fits this. It also fits the prophecy of Lev 26 which states that if Israel was disobedient they would be exiled. And if they repented they would be brought back. And if they didn’t repent, horrible things would happen to them, but eventually they would be brought back anyway because of God’s promises.

Israel remains in an unrepentant state, having refused to recognize the Messiah and God’s plan of salvation.

You can deny the rapture all you want or place it in any time frame you want, but you can’t read Zechariah and not realize that the exile that just ended was prophesied.

[topcat54]

That Israel would become a nation again is clearly seen in Zech 10-12. Zechariah writing after the Babylonian exile wrote of an exile where Israel would be cast off to far countries and then would be gathered back into the land.

It’s called reading the Old Testament without regard to the New. It’s a primary tactic of futurism. We’ve been there before.

Were there Jews living in the land at the time of Christ? The fact is that nowhere in the Bible is their recorded a total return of all the Jews to the land. Even after the Babylonian Captivity, many Jews chose to remain in Babylon.

Zechariah, like all the prophets, needs to be read as a prophecy regarding Jesus Christ, not Israel. Until you see Jesus Christ in the entire Old Testament it will never make sense to you, and you will continue to regard earthly Israel as a focal point.

You can deny the rapture all you want or place it in any time frame you want, but you can’t read Zechariah and not realize that the exile that just ended was prophesied.

Sure I can, because I refuse to adopt the faulty presuppositions of futurism regarding Israel.

BTW, I don’t deny the “rapture.” I deny that the rapture is a chronologically distinct event from the Second Coming. They are one and the same.

[DannyTN]

"BTW, I don’t deny the “rapture.” I deny that the rapture is a chronologically distinct event from the Second Coming. They are one and the same. "So you think we rise to meet Christ in the air (the rapture), only to immediate turn around and return with Christ to rule for 1000 years (the second coming)?