Then He's not God.
Apostle Claver tells the world how the real party of racism is the Democrats
Posted on 01/21/2011 2:42:59 PM PST by wmfights
did anyone believe in “limited atonement” before Calvin cam along in the 16th century? if yes, i would appreciate someone providing name and citation.
same for the question did any believe in “double predestination” before Calvin?
Predestination Ping! This has been foreseen and is inexorable!!!
No. "All" means "All". God doesn't always get what he wants. God's will bumps up against man's free will. God didn't want Adam and Eve to fall. God doesn't want man to ever sin but we do. God wants man to always love each other, but we don't. God doesn't want any man to remain unrepentant, but many will. God wants all men to be saved, but they won't be.
I think you’re right.
In the verse cited — I didn’t hang up on the word “all” as much as the word “wants”. If God predestines all who are saved, why would he need to also “want” them to be saved?
God seeks even those who never seek Him. He wants all to be saved, but knows many will choose a different path. Free will.
SnakeDoc
what a concept “all means all”
1 John 2:2 “and He is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world”
whole means whole
The Epistles were written to encourage Christians and are meant to be understood as listener would understand it when it was read. This twisting words to mean something the listener would not understand is quite sinful.
Then He's not God.
Apostle Claver tells the world how the real party of racism is the Democrats
So much for the concept of a sovereign God, huh? Tell me this, if we are “DEAD in trespasses and sin” as Ephesians 2:1 states, how can we do anything for ourselves in regard to salvation?
You are correct.
“All” means God would desire that ALL men and women would turn to Him and ask for forgiveness and receive Christ as Lord and Savior.
All men and women are made in His image as persons, He is not pleased that some people will be separate from Him for all eternity because that was what they wanted.
The mere fact man and woman were initially made perfect and were in communion with God, not made to die, would indicate if the first man and woman never sinned they would have remained in communion with God and not died. Their offspring would also not have been destined to die either.
Bottom line is that He created things initially to live forever. He did not create things and people in order to separate some away from Him forever. That was never seen as a positive thing for Him. He wanted ALL the things He created to be with Him. The fact we had free will to make the choice if we wanted to be with Him would require some people to be separated from God is just a necessity because that’s what they wanted, it’s not because God thought that was good.
God always gets what he wants, but "what he wants" is for our salvation, in most cases, to be conditioned on our free response to his offer of grace. He wants all men to be saved, but not "all men to be saved no matter what"; he's offering a gift, not forcing that gift on those who don't want it.
***God didn’t want Adam and Eve to fall.***
A couple of points here...
1. If God did not want Adam to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, WHY DID HE PLANT IT? He didn’t have to, so there must be some reason why he did it.
2. Was the death of Jesus a “stop-gap” measure in order to come up with some way to cleans people from their sins after Adam fell, or was this (Jesus’ death and resurrection) part of God’s plan from the very beginning, before God created anything?
Certainly, the apostles Paul & Peter.
Augustine
Paul
***God doesn’t always get what he wants. God’s will bumps up against man’s free will. ***
Trust me, if ANYTHING bumps up against God’s will, God triumps every time. God’s will prevails against anything and everything, even Satan. Nothing, including and especially man’s will, can prevail against God.
Long time no see!
How’s things?
Then why does Revelation 21 refer to Christ as “the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world” if God hadn’t planned to redeem us through his death?
We are at the mercy of a merciful God who wishes no one to perish:
The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. - 2 Peter 3:9
The grave dilemma with "free will" is that if such a concept were true, it would require God not to know in advance who would choose Him. Otherwise, He would be aware of a fixed future from which the "free" chooser could not deviate. If God does know, and the chooser could not deviate, then the chooser is not as "free" as he believed. Oila', predestination. It is everywhere in the Scriptures.
See #19. Your RC theology is neither biblical nor logical.
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