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Hey, Who Are You Calling a Cult?
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/Latter-Day-Saints/2000/11/Hey-Who-Are-You-Calling-A-Cult.aspx ^ | Orson Scott Card

Posted on 01/06/2011 2:31:49 PM PST by Paragon Defender

Hey, Who Are You Calling a Cult?

 

The LDS Church is less of a cult than many of the religions that accuse it of being one.

BY: Orson Scott Card

 

 

He wrote to me in all innocence, a reader from a Catholic country where Mormon missionaries had only recently begun to gather congregations of believers.

"I asked my priest," he said, "and he told me that Mormons are a cult."

Setting aside the obvious riposte ("What did you think your priest would tell you, that Mormonism was true Christianity as restored by God to living prophets?"), I think it's worth considering just what we mean by "cult" and seeing whether it applies to the Mormon Church.

Cult as Bad Word

Anti-Mormons use "cult" the way gay activists use "homophobe"--as an ad hominem epithet hurled to try to silence any persuasive opponent whose ideas can't be countered on their merits.

When used this way, "cult" just means "religion I want you to fear so much you won't listen to them." Or even, "religion I want you to hate so much that you will remove it from the list of churches that deserve constitutional protection."

But just as "homophobe" has a core meaning (someone with a pathological fear of homosexuality to the degree that it interferes with his life), so also with "cult." The only reason it works as name-calling is because there really are religious groups that do--and should--scare us.

There are real examples of what we mean by cults: Jim Jones' group that destroyed itself in mass murder and suicide in Guyana, or those sneaker-wearing folks who killed themselves to join aliens approaching behind a comet. And even though the Branch Davidians may not have been as monstrous as they were depicted in the media, they still clearly fall within what we mean by that word.

What do they have in common?

Charismatic Founder. Cults gather around charismatic individuals who are the sole source of truth to their followers.

Exploitation. The leader enriches himself through the financial contributions of the members, or gathers personal power that he uses to exploit members in other ways to benefit himself. If the group survives the leader's death, it remains a cult if his successors continue that exploitation.

Automatons. The members are discouraged from thinking for themselves, and, insofar as possible, are turned into unquestioning "obedience machines."

Withdrawal and Isolation. Perhaps because exploitation and obedience are easiest to maintain when the ordinary world can't offer its distractions and attractions, cults tend to withdraw physically, seeking ever greater isolation. This is often used as part of the conversion process, to keep the prospective member from hearing counterarguments.

Are All Religions Cults?

It's worth pointing out that there are very few religions of any size or influence that did not begin with a charismatic founder and whose members did not seem, to outsiders, to behave in much the way I've just described. A humble, wise teacher can always be charged with "setting himself up as the sole source of truth" merely because he offers any unusual idea.

The gathering of money to help the poor or pay for meetinghouses or publications can be called "exploitation." The natural desire of converts to live according to the teachings of their leader can look like lockstep blind obedience to those who live a different way. And if outsiders persecute the new religion, it is only natural that adherents will want to band together and get away, if only for a few hours at a time, to be able to practice their religion in peace.

All religions have a body of teachings that becomes a lens through which the believers see the world around them. To those who don't believe, the lens seems to be a distortion of reality--though of course, those unbelievers are merely distorting reality their own way, through their own lens. No one sees reality without passing the data through the lens of their own preconceptions.

All religions also form a community, however loosely organized, of like-minded believers who set the standard of correctness. Whether that standard is rigid or relaxed, those who cross it are expelled from the community and are treated as heretics, apostates, or infidels. Severe treatment of heretics can be found from the lowliest cult to the largest church, from the most rigid sect to "open"-minded, post-religious academia.

You have to get fairly close to a new religion in order to see whether it is acting like a cult or like a religion. Most of those who hurl the word "cult," however, do not bother to get close. And those who do are often so grimly determined to attack that they distort all evidence in order to support the charge.

How Does Mormonism Measure Up?

Joseph Smith was a charismatic leader, but he was murdered 156 years ago. Nowadays, we have leaders who, while sometimes gifted at communication, are rarely of the dramatic, movement-founding type. Indeed, I feel safe in saying that the majority in my lifetime have been rather dull and gray, and they are followed far more because of their office than because of any personal charisma.

Exploitation? As for exploitative leadership, this charge is absolutely false and always has been. Joseph Smith passed the money test with flying colors: He died poor and in debt, not because of profligate spending, but because any money that flowed into his hands flowed right back out again in attempts to benefit the saints and build the church.

In the years since, a handful of church offices have become salaried, but the salaries are merely enough to sustain normal family life. The perks of wealth are shunned even by those church leaders who were rich before being called to one of those rare salaried offices. And church leaders constantly struggle to eliminate the sycophancy, the cult of personality, and the general "sucking up" that are bound to arise in any hierarchical organization.

By any honest measure, Mormon church leaders, from Joseph Smith on, have a remarkable record of genuine humility. They really do try to be the servants rather than the masters of the saints.

Automatons? Those who have actually lived in a Mormon ward--and especially those who have tried to lead a group of Mormons in any kind of activity--can all affirm one truth: Mormons may well be the most stubborn, independent-minded group of people ever assembled as a religious community.

Joseph Smith received a revelation that established the only style of leadership that actually works in the Mormon church (or, in the long run, anywhere): You can only lead by persuasion, by love, by patience, by your own willingness to learn from those you lead. Every now and then, some local Mormon leader will try to give orders or attempt to manipulate people into doing things his way. But he very quickly learns that the more he does that, the less obedient we Mormons become.

Far from being robots, most of us Mormons are, by inclination and by doctrine, determined to make up our own minds about everything. It's a core doctrine of Mormonism that each member of the church is personally and individually responsible for their own relationship with God.

Isolation? As for the cultish trait of isolating converts from any other influence, or brainwashing them till they can't think for themselves, our method of teaching would-be proselytes is the opposite. We usually teach them in their own homes. Our missionaries come for a little while and then leave them to themselves to read, ponder, and pray. We counter the attacks of anti-Mormons by telling the truth about our beliefs and practices, not by trying to cut off contact with our opponents.

Far from becoming isolated, a new convert to Mormonism is taught to be more respectful and loving to parents, spouse, children, and other family members and friends. They usually do better at their careers and education, and if withdrawal takes place it is because their new Mormon lifestyle and beliefs are rejected by their family or friends.

Kettles and Pots

On all these points, I daresay that the Mormon church is less cult-like than many of the religions that delight in calling us one.

Indeed, calling Mormonism a cult is usually an attempt to get people to behave like robots, blindly obeying the command that they reject Mormonism without any independent thought. Kettles, as they say, calling the pot black.

Here's the simplest statement I can make: If Mormonism were a cult, I would know it, and I would not be in it.

 

 

 


TOPICS: Ecumenism; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: ctr; cult; firstvision; mittromney; mormon; mormonism; mormonismcult; mormons; romney; romneysreligion; sourcetitlenoturl
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To: greyfoxx39

i am discussing, you are attacking me. I know liberals don’t like free speech, but someone who is conservative? What about “in my opinion” don’t you understand. If you feel i am violating TOS, explain where and i will consider it. I see nothing in my postings which violate any rules. My point is the a lot of posters attacking LDS’s for holding novel doctrines unheard of for 1,800 years, hold different novel doctrines unheard of for 1,500 years. I know you don’t like that, but it happens to be true. You may be one, i don’t know and i certainly can’t read your heart ( whatever that means, sounds like a liberal concept to me ) Joseph Smith taught the Church needed to be “restored” since it did not exist, many on here who attack Mormons will hold to this belief 300 years before Joseph Smith said it. Both beliefs are un-Biblical. Am i entitled to say that or do i need to include the word “cult” in my post so as not to be accused of “hijacking the thread”?


61 posted on 01/06/2011 4:44:26 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: yellowroses

Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church, Elder McConkie disagrees. I’ll stick with Jesus on this one!


62 posted on 01/06/2011 4:48:30 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
If you feel i am violating TOS, explain where and i will consider it.

I think you neglected to read the rules of the Religion Forum which I posted in post 51.

Check them out.

In my opinion, you have made several generalized accusations against the FReepers posting here without providing any kind of documentation for your claims. To quote you, "sounds like a liberal concept to me"....just throw the words "conservatives" and Republicans" into your rants and MSNBC might hire you.

63 posted on 01/06/2011 4:53:32 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (("A Leftist assumption: Making money doesn't entitle you to it, but wanting money does.")
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To: Godzilla

That is true. I have seen an amazing number of people on these threads who I had never seen before.


64 posted on 01/06/2011 4:55:39 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously..... You won't live through it anyway.)
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To: humblegunner

Hey, Who Are You Calling a Cult?

The LDS Church is less of a cult than many of the religions that accuse it of being one. (Orson Scott Card, Mormon apologist)

This is the same guy...

Speaking of his acquaintance Hugh Nibley, Card said that as a young man, he thought to himself:

“the epiphany I had as a child: If someone this smart, this rigorous of thought, this widely and deeply educated, believes that Joseph Smith was a prophet, the Book of Mormon is true, and the Church is God’s kingdom on earth, then I will not let myself get swept away by whatever questions come up during my life. I’ll question my questions, I’ll doubt my doubts, confident that one way or another, everything will be reconciled.”

-Orson Scott Card, How Hugh Nibley blesssed the church, Monday Aoril 27, 2009

http://www.meridianmagazine.com


65 posted on 01/06/2011 4:55:44 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: greyfoxx39

i did read it, and would oppose you being booted for being “thin skinned”


66 posted on 01/06/2011 4:57:57 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Whoaa man! FIRST PRESLEYTERIAN CHURCH of ELVIS THE DIVINE ???

Back off. He’s the King!

Saw the Elvis show in Vegas this week and it was “ehhh, so, so, so.”

Wasn’t bad but wasn’t memorable either.

The show “Beatles” was an amazing show.

Weird thing is, I grew up listening to Elvis, still do and love his music.

Grew up without really ever hearing the Beatles and only became familiar with their work and personalities over the last 20 years.

Go figure.


67 posted on 01/06/2011 5:01:23 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously..... You won't live through it anyway.)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

IBTZ


68 posted on 01/06/2011 5:02:51 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously..... You won't live through it anyway.)
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To: Colofornian

I thought it was the planet Zogg, bit Kolob is OK.

Mormons (I know a lot of them and love Glenn Beck, as a disclaimer) have four fundamental issues I think are strange:

1) The Kolob (Zogg) UFO thingy
2) All of them are Masons (Smith, Brigham Young, etc.) not a deal killer, but interesting
3) The underwear thing
4) The Book of Mormon, which is kind of a third part of the Bible, and what they focus on, vs. Old and New Testament.

I want the Mormons on our side, they are a good voting block for the Red Team, but they are not my cup of tea.


69 posted on 01/06/2011 5:03:40 PM PST by wac3rd (Somewhere in Hell, Ted Kennedy snickers....)
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To: greyfoxx39; one Lord one faith one baptism

You are a whack job and a shill.


70 posted on 01/06/2011 5:05:44 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously..... You won't live through it anyway.)
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To: wac3rd
they are not my cup of tea.

Especially since tea drinking is against their religion, LOL.

71 posted on 01/06/2011 5:06:06 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (("A Leftist assumption: Making money doesn't entitle you to it, but wanting money does.")
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To: Vendome

care to elaborate????


72 posted on 01/06/2011 5:07:53 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Vendome

LOL...I don’t think you meant that for me, Vendome.


73 posted on 01/06/2011 5:08:01 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (("A Leftist assumption: Making money doesn't entitle you to it, but wanting money does.")
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To: Colofornian

Brilliantly stated. I can think of nothing that shows more clearly what a fairy tale Mormonism is. The Kolob thing is absolutely true and well documented, and they can’t explain it away.


74 posted on 01/06/2011 5:08:39 PM PST by CalvaryJohn (What is keeping that damned asteroid?)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Welcome to FRee Republic n00bie...

I agree with you...

The LORD Jesus Christ who is God when speaking of His Bride, the Body of Christ, His Body as He is the Head of the Church, said, “on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18

and neither Hell nor anything else has ever taken the Church away or destroyed her...

nor has the Church ever needed to be “restored”

not in 2,000 years...

The LORD Jesus Christ is a Bridegroom who loves and cherishes His Bride and can be trusted and relied upon to keep her safe and protected from the wolves..

and never lose her, neglect her, forget her, drop her misplace her or allow her to be stolen away...


75 posted on 01/06/2011 5:08:58 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: greyfoxx39

Uh, suddenly you aren’t worried about TOS violations, you think they are funny!


76 posted on 01/06/2011 5:09:58 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: greyfoxx39

NOpe.

Pretty convenient screen name, sign up date and giving generalizations. I am calling IBTZ and we’ll see how much longer the troll hangs around.

I think it’s a retread.


77 posted on 01/06/2011 5:10:03 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously..... You won't live through it anyway.)
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To: Tennessee Nana

AMEN!!!


78 posted on 01/06/2011 5:11:21 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: greyfoxx39

a nice cuppa

thats what this thread needs...

popcorn is OK but right now a cup of Tea would hit the spot...

:)


79 posted on 01/06/2011 5:12:44 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; All

Sure, as soon as you start elaborating or expanding your statements with qualified proof.

Your generalizations, the convenient handle you took and the subject you chose to take on lead me to think you are a retread and/or a shill.

Personally I think you are LDS and using typical arguments of undermining and equivocation. But you don’t seem to keen on examining the subject matter at hand.


80 posted on 01/06/2011 5:13:57 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously..... You won't live through it anyway.)
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