Posted on 01/06/2011 2:31:49 PM PST by Paragon Defender
BY: Orson Scott Card
"I asked my priest," he said, "and he told me that Mormons are a cult."
Setting aside the obvious riposte ("What did you think your priest would tell you, that Mormonism was true Christianity as restored by God to living prophets?"), I think it's worth considering just what we mean by "cult" and seeing whether it applies to the Mormon Church.
Cult as Bad Word
Anti-Mormons use "cult" the way gay activists use "homophobe"--as an ad hominem epithet hurled to try to silence any persuasive opponent whose ideas can't be countered on their merits.
When used this way, "cult" just means "religion I want you to fear so much you won't listen to them." Or even, "religion I want you to hate so much that you will remove it from the list of churches that deserve constitutional protection."
But just as "homophobe" has a core meaning (someone with a pathological fear of homosexuality to the degree that it interferes with his life), so also with "cult." The only reason it works as name-calling is because there really are religious groups that do--and should--scare us.
There are real examples of what we mean by cults: Jim Jones' group that destroyed itself in mass murder and suicide in Guyana, or those sneaker-wearing folks who killed themselves to join aliens approaching behind a comet. And even though the Branch Davidians may not have been as monstrous as they were depicted in the media, they still clearly fall within what we mean by that word.
What do they have in common?
Charismatic Founder. Cults gather around charismatic individuals who are the sole source of truth to their followers.
Exploitation. The leader enriches himself through the financial contributions of the members, or gathers personal power that he uses to exploit members in other ways to benefit himself. If the group survives the leader's death, it remains a cult if his successors continue that exploitation.
Automatons. The members are discouraged from thinking for themselves, and, insofar as possible, are turned into unquestioning "obedience machines."
Withdrawal and Isolation. Perhaps because exploitation and obedience are easiest to maintain when the ordinary world can't offer its distractions and attractions, cults tend to withdraw physically, seeking ever greater isolation. This is often used as part of the conversion process, to keep the prospective member from hearing counterarguments. The gathering of money to help the poor or pay for meetinghouses or publications can be called "exploitation." The natural desire of converts to live according to the teachings of their leader can look like lockstep blind obedience to those who live a different way. And if outsiders persecute the new religion, it is only natural that adherents will want to band together and get away, if only for a few hours at a time, to be able to practice their religion in peace. All religions have a body of teachings that becomes a lens through which the believers see the world around them. To those who don't believe, the lens seems to be a distortion of reality--though of course, those unbelievers are merely distorting reality their own way, through their own lens. No one sees reality without passing the data through the lens of their own preconceptions. All religions also form a community, however loosely organized, of like-minded believers who set the standard of correctness. Whether that standard is rigid or relaxed, those who cross it are expelled from the community and are treated as heretics, apostates, or infidels. Severe treatment of heretics can be found from the lowliest cult to the largest church, from the most rigid sect to "open"-minded, post-religious academia. You have to get fairly close to a new religion in order to see whether it is acting like a cult or like a religion. Most of those who hurl the word "cult," however, do not bother to get close. And those who do are often so grimly determined to attack that they distort all evidence in order to support the charge. Exploitation? As for exploitative leadership, this charge is absolutely false and always has been. Joseph Smith passed the money test with flying colors: He died poor and in debt, not because of profligate spending, but because any money that flowed into his hands flowed right back out again in attempts to benefit the saints and build the church. In the years since, a handful of church offices have become salaried, but the salaries are merely enough to sustain normal family life. The perks of wealth are shunned even by those church leaders who were rich before being called to one of those rare salaried offices. And church leaders constantly struggle to eliminate the sycophancy, the cult of personality, and the general "sucking up" that are bound to arise in any hierarchical organization. Automatons? Those who have actually lived in a Mormon ward--and especially those who have tried to lead a group of Mormons in any kind of activity--can all affirm one truth: Mormons may well be the most stubborn, independent-minded group of people ever assembled as a religious community. Joseph Smith received a revelation that established the only style of leadership that actually works in the Mormon church (or, in the long run, anywhere): You can only lead by persuasion, by love, by patience, by your own willingness to learn from those you lead. Every now and then, some local Mormon leader will try to give orders or attempt to manipulate people into doing things his way. But he very quickly learns that the more he does that, the less obedient we Mormons become. Far from being robots, most of us Mormons are, by inclination and by doctrine, determined to make up our own minds about everything. It's a core doctrine of Mormonism that each member of the church is personally and individually responsible for their own relationship with God. Isolation? As for the cultish trait of isolating converts from any other influence, or brainwashing them till they can't think for themselves, our method of teaching would-be proselytes is the opposite. We usually teach them in their own homes. Our missionaries come for a little while and then leave them to themselves to read, ponder, and pray. We counter the attacks of anti-Mormons by telling the truth about our beliefs and practices, not by trying to cut off contact with our opponents. Far from becoming isolated, a new convert to Mormonism is taught to be more respectful and loving to parents, spouse, children, and other family members and friends. They usually do better at their careers and education, and if withdrawal takes place it is because their new Mormon lifestyle and beliefs are rejected by their family or friends. Indeed, calling Mormonism a cult is usually an attempt to get people to behave like robots, blindly obeying the command that they reject Mormonism without any independent thought. Kettles, as they say, calling the pot black. Here's the simplest statement I can make: If Mormonism were a cult, I would know it, and I would not be in it.
It's worth pointing out that there are very few religions of any size or influence that did not begin with a charismatic founder and whose members did not seem, to outsiders, to behave in much the way I've just described. A humble, wise teacher can always be charged with "setting himself up as the sole source of truth" merely because he offers any unusual idea.
How Does Mormonism Measure Up?
Joseph Smith was a charismatic leader, but he was murdered 156 years ago. Nowadays, we have leaders who, while sometimes gifted at communication, are rarely of the dramatic, movement-founding type. Indeed, I feel safe in saying that the majority in my lifetime have been rather dull and gray, and they are followed far more because of their office than because of any personal charisma.
Kettles and Pots
On all these points, I daresay that the Mormon church is less cult-like than many of the religions that delight in calling us one.
Cult...any group that uses any book (or prophet) other than the BIBLE, or denies the Bible, as their main source for a relationship with God.
That would include...
Book of Mormon (and related doctrines)
Aquarian godpel of Jesus Christ
Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures,
E G White,
H W Armstrong,
Uranta
Ohasphe
Spiritism
Theosophy
Elizabeth Clare Prophet
Scientology and Dianetics
And way, way too many occult books to name.
Hmm, I wonder if the FIRST PRESLEYTERIAN CHURCH of ELVIS THE DIVINE is still included!
List of wierd cults and other good stuff below.
http://www.wfial.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=archives.index&#top
Oh wait, you WERE were smart enough to use the past subjective. Tagline fixed.
You are so right! I am one of those lurkers...I rarely post, but all these threads have lead me to stand up for our LORD, JESUS CHRIST. I pray that PD and all Mormons will come to realize the TRUTH.
That's because when posting Caucus threads one doesn't really expect any debate, donchaknow?
When you're a mormon missionary most folks treat you with respect and don't talk back, even when they think what you're saying is off-the-wall ridiculous.
Glad to have you and your prayers on board!
Guess it is too hard to defend the 'off-the-wall ridiculous' when it is so clearly exposed across the nation eh?
Any faith that adds or subtracts anything tomor from the Bible is a cult.
Mormons do not believe in the God of the Bible. They believe in the god of the book of Mormon. The are two very different things.
Believe in whom you wish, but don’t keep trying to say they are the same.
you just defined the thessalonians who were taught by St. Paul as a “cult”
Add in the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The spaceship from Israel to Utah was my first clue.
One should be wary of making generalized statements claiming to know the hearts of other FReepers without some kind of proof..especially when one is a rank n00b.
I have been associated with a large group of these FReepers for several years on the Religion Forum and I do not know which Christian denomination they claim, nor whether it meets your narrow rule.
It would be wise for you to visit this page and absorb the Religion Forum rules.
Then, come back and welcome to the debate on mormonism. There are other places to discuss Catholicism, BTW.
My online dictionary defines a cult as:
cult - 1. religious group with strange or dangerous views. a religious group, especially one with beliefs that most people consider strange or dangerous
2. religious system involving worship of particular god. formal a religious system in which people worship a particular god, person, or object
Both are appropriate. And, before you get your dander up, it also defines Christianity.
>>”I pray that PD and all Mormons will come to realize the TRUTH.”<<
What the hell does it matter to you who believes in what? Are you the religion police? Is it your mission in life to ‘save’ all the lost souls that don’t agree with exactly what you believe in.
Let them practice how they want as long as it’s not hurting you personally. They are good people. Leave them alone.
i’m sorry, i don’t think i said a wit about “knowing the hearts” of other FReepers. I may be a new poster, but i have read this site and enjoyed it for the politics for years. The large majority are spot on poltically, i know this from reading the blogs posted and comments. No reading of hearts required. The same way i know how members feel politically, i read their comments on the religion thread and at least 80% (IMO) would reject historical, orthodox Christianity and most don’t even realize it! That’s not attacking anyone, that’s stating my opinion based on experience!! These open threads are made for these opinions. Let’s see how many people defend the Nicene Creed!
(Yeah...well start researching the Planet/star "Kolob"--and how Kolob has "colonized" Planet earth with these "spirits" who take over earthly bodies...and how some of them will return to "Kolob"...where men have polygamous wives, eternal sex to create more body-inhabiting spirits so that the returned exiles can be worshiped by these beings...and there you have Mormonism...just not exactly the "Mormonism" their missionaries begin their narrative on...)
Jesus was God...He did not become one. That is the basis for being a cult.
Jesus was God...He did not become one. That is the basis for being a cult.
Case in point: How many of these posters attacking LDS, accept the Nicene Creed? Not Many! Do they believe “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”? Do they believe in”one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church”? Not that i can tell. In fact, they accuse Christians who hold to the Nicene Creed of being “satanic”!!
Sounds very much like "reading the hearts of other FReepers to me."
The same way i know how members feel politically, i read their comments on the religion thread and at least 80% (IMO) would reject historical, orthodox Christianity and most don’t even realize it!
Did you even read the Religion Moderator's rules on open threads?
You are welcome to your opinion, but providing examples and links of the comments that lead you to assume that "least 80% (IMO) would reject historical, orthodox Christianity and most don’t even realize it!" would strengthen your position, IMO.
I would ask, are you here to discuss? It sounds like a thread highjack in my opinion.
“anties have cease lurk mode and are actively replying while the true believing mormons fade into the woodwork. Doing a great job PD, keep it up.”
I wouldn’t say we’re fading into the woodwork, as we’re unwilling to speak to your rantings. Why should we? You’ve already made up your mind. Nothing we could say would EVER be accepted. Satan loves contention. I find no use for contention.
“Any faith that adds or subtracts anything tomor from the Bible is a cult.”
If Christ’s Church had continued, the Bible would not have ended at approximately AD 100, but rather apostolic epistles would have continued through the ages in order to bring the Saints to a unity of the faith, to resolve the ongoing disputes, and to put down any attempted discord. Christ’s Church was not a static church; it was a dynamic, vibrant, living church - and revelation was its lifeblood. No wonder Elder Bruce R. McConkie concluded: “The very fact that the Bible ceased to grow through the ages is itself proof positive of the great apostasy.”
Source: Page 88, The Inevitable Apostasy and the Promised Restoration, by TAd R. Callister
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