Posted on 12/26/2010 8:41:08 AM PST by Colofornian
Islam: Truth or Myth? start page
* "Modern Mohammedanism has its Mecca at Salt Lake... Clearly the Koran was Joseph Smith's model, so closely followed as to exclude even the poor pretension of originality in his foul 'revelations.' " (The Women of Mormonism, Frances E. Willard, 1882, Introduction, p. xvi)
* "The student of Mormonism will be struck with the similarity of experience and claims of Joseph Smith and Mohammed." (The Rocky Mountain Saints, T. B. H. Stenhouse 1873, p 2)
* "even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed" Gal 1:8
1. The followers of Muhammad and Joseph Smith both killed innocent "infidel" on the same date of 9/11. On September 11, 1857, Mormon militia massacred about 140 men, women and children under the authority of Brigham Young. However 17 very young children were spared and adopted into Mormon families. They were in fact sold to the highest Mormon family bidder and resold and traded many times afterwords. This event is called "The Mountain Meadows" massacre. Mormon leaders engaged in a deliberate rewriting of history to deny they were behind the murders. On September 11, 2001 Muhammad's followers, using the Koran as a guide, sent two airplanes into the World Trade Center killing 3000 innocent men, women and children. Muslims today have a PhD in rewriting history and preach in the mosques that Jews were actually driving the planes, not Muslim terrorists.
2. Both were visited by an angel. Joseph Smith was visited by the angel "Moroni" and Muhammad by Gabriel. Galatians 1:6-9 says, "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed."
3. Both were given visions.
4. Both were told that no true religion existed on the earth. In the published account of his life, Joseph Smith related that he became very disturbed when he was a youth because of the "strife among the different denominations," and this "cry and tumult" led him to ask God "which of all the sects were right — and which I should join." He was told that he must "join none of them, for they were all wrong... that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt..." (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 2:8-19) N. J. Dawood says that Mohammed was also concerned with the fact that the Jews and Christians had "divided themselves into schismatic sects." In the scriptures given by Mohammed, we read: "Yet the Sects are divided concerning Jesus.... Truly, the unbelievers are in the grossest error." (The Koran, translated by N. J. Dawood, Surah 19, p. 34) In Surah 30, page 190, this warning appears: "Do not split up your religion into sects, each exulting in its own beliefs." In Surah 3, page 398, we read: "The only true faith in Allah's sight is Islam. Those to whom the Scriptures [i.e., Jews and Christians] were given disagreed among themselves through jealousy only after knowledge had been given them."
5. Both were to restore the long lost faith as the one true religion. Islam makes claim that Adam and Abraham were Muslims, a claim that is as ridiculous as it is undocumented from either history or archaeology. Mormons make the unsubstantiated claim that the church in the first century were Mormon.
6. Both wrote a book inspired by God.
7. Both claimed to be illiterate or uneducated and used this as proof the book was inspired. "How could an illiterate man write the Koran or the Book of Mormon?" Joseph Smith is claimed to have only grade three education.
8. Both claimed the Bible was lost, altered, corrupted and unreliable.
9. Both claimed their holy book was the most correct and perfect book on earth.
10. Both claimed that their new "Bible" was based upon a record stored in heaven. With Islam, it is the "mother book" that resides in heaven with God. With Mormonism, it is the golden Nephi plates that the angel Moroni took back to heaven.
11. Both claim that the version we have in our hands today are identical to what the prophet revealed and that parts are not lost, altered and corrupted. Of course the proof that these claims are invalid is found in two books. The Mormon claim is proven false by a book called "3913 Changes to Book of Mormon" by Sandra Tanner. The Islamic claim is proven false by a book (In Arabic language) called, "Making Easy the Readings of What Has Been Sent Down" by Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun. Both books show that the copy of the book of Mormon and the Koran used today is different from what was originally used when each religion was started.
12. Both claimed to be a final prophet of God.
13. Both claimed they were persecuted because of their pure faith.
14. Both were polygamists who had many wives.
15. Both borrowed from paganism/polytheism. Muhammad incorporated that polytheistic moon god called "Allah" and "Allah's three daughters" into Islam. Basically Muhammad chose Allah from within 350 known gods that were worshipped in Arabia and proclaimed the moon god to be the greatest and only God. Smith borrowed from a doctrine called "pyramidology" and the Masons and other magic systems.
16. Both received "after the fact corrective revelations" from God. Muhammad retracted the Satanic verses and Mormons retracted Smith's divine order mandating polygamy. But for Mormons it there is even a closer parallel. Sounds exactly like Muhammad and his satanic verses.
"As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi... which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again — and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated... I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil." (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, Preface)
17. Immediately after the death of Muhammad and Smith, a fight broke out from among the "faithful converts" as to who would succeed Muhammad and Smith. Both groups were plunged into irreparable division that has endured ever since. Islam and Mormonism both have squabbles among themselves as to who is the one true splinter group of their prophet!
18. Mormons, contrary to the Bible, "baptize the dead" by gathering genealogies of all men who lived on earth. This contradicts the Bible: "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless." Tit 3:9 While the Bible says avoid focusing in Genealogies, the Mormon church makes it their central focus of mission. Mormons have even been criticized for baptizing, by proxy, the Jews had died in Nazi Holocaust camps. When lists of genealogies are collected, living Mormons are baptized, on behalf of, those on the lists, who have already died. In this way, Mormons view every man who lived, as being Mormons. In the same way Muslims claim that all men are born Muslims and when they learn the truth of Christianity, they are apostatizing from their first faith. Muslims re-write history by proclaiming Jesus and the Apostles were Muslims in a similar way Mormons baptize Jews (for example) with the expectation they will be Mormons in the next life. Yet gathering of large genealogical lists no more makes dead people Mormons in the next life, than re-writing history makes Jesus into a Muslim.
19. Both the Islam and Mormon religions have those who follow the "original doctrine" of the founding leaders and like these founding leaders, are violent, polygamists, and have revelations justifying their evil actions.
20. Both Muslims and Mormons (and Jehovah's Witnesses) have progressive revelation. Jw’s call it "new light". Muslims call it "Nasikh". Jehovah’s Witnesses were once instructed to celebrated Christmas, birthdays and salute the flag, but "new light" changed all that. Mormons like all Muslims, were originally polygamists until "The Manifesto" against polygamy came as a revelation to John Taylor, over 40 years after Smith's death, on the eve of the US government outlawing the practice of polygamy. New revelation always replaces older revelation that became inconvenient to the prophet.
Top Lds-Muslim FR threads of 2010:
* A Latter-day Saint Perspective on Muhammad [695 replies]
* Muslims and Latter-day Saints Mormon [253 replies before becoming locked]
* Muslims and Mormons share worship space in St Charles [141 replies]
* Mormons, Muslims get along by creating books, not destroying them
I dont expect this thread to last long.......
IBPD!
You beat me to it!
IBPD
In that thread, Greyfoxx provided a link on post #118 : A Latter-day Saint Perspective on Muhammad
And then GF added @ that post: "A cabinet minister in Egypt, aware of the common ground shared by Muslims and Latter-day Saints, once remarked to Elder Howard W. Hunter of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles that “if a bridge is ever built between Christianity and Islam it must be built by the Mormon Church.” 13 The examples of Latter-day Saint–Muslim interaction mentioned above, together with the Church’s establishment in 1989 of two major centers for educational and cultural exchange in the Middle East (Jerusalem and Amman), reflect the traditional attitude of respect for Islam that Church leaders have exhibited from earliest times. These activities represent tangible evidence of Latter-day Saint commitment to promote greater understanding of the Muslim world and witness an emerging role for the Church in helping to bridge the gap that has existed historically between Muslims and Christians."
Quoting Morpheus2009: This comment from you makes no sense to me at all.
"Because you don’t sound as if you know the facts about how powerful of a force Islam is, especially with help from political correctness that Mormonism does not have at all."
It is the mormon church who is reaching out to Islam in a very PC way.
CAWW then responded in posts #129 and #140 -- with a comment from GF sandwiched in @ post #135:
To: greyfoxx39
From your link I see Mormons have donated land for building Islamic Mosques...which as far as I'm concerned states they are in partnership with expanding Islam in our country.
Muslims and Mormons who attend each other’s religious services or events often report feeling very much at ease. .....The two faiths often co-host social and educational programs.
The Mormon-owned Brigham Young University operates a world-class research operation in translating ancient Arab religious texts, which many Muslims interpret as more than a token sign of interest.....
THE MORMON CHURCH has also DONATED LAND FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF ISLAMIC MOSQUES,....
Read more at Suite101: The Muslim Mormon Connection: American Muslims and Mormons Have Created a Deepening Friendship
http://mormonism.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_muslim_mormon_connection#ixzz0y6Q5dMmN
129 posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 9:30:16 AM by caww
-----------------------------------------------
To: Morpheus2009
[Responding to this Morpheus2009 comment: There is no association confirmed, just the attempt to reach out, which is a proven failure when you ask how many Muslims convert to Mormonism, or Christianity? Does this Church think that they can win? The idea is ludicrous. Your message should be addressed to the mormon church, not to me.
This speech was given by mormon apostle Boyd K. Packer, on 10 October 2006.
Building Bridges of Understanding: The Church and the World of Islam
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints expresses “special love and concern for the eternal welfare of all men and women, regardless of religious belief, race, or nationality, knowing that we are truly brothers and sisters because we are sons and daughters of the same Eternal Father.”1
We believe that “the great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.”2
It is not a coincidence that the world’s great religions come together at Temple Hill in modern-day Jerusalem. Known now as the Place of the Rock, it is a religious shrine for Islam, for Christianity, and for Judaism. All three great religions hold ties to this place. All three, likewise, have a common thread in a tradition that Elijah the prophet would return.3
Knit together by world history and by Old Testament history and doctrine, the Church and the Islamic world can see each other as People of the Book, indeed Family of the Book.
Church members and Muslims share similar high standards of decency, temperance, and morality. We have so much in common. As societal morality and behavior decline in an increasingly permissive world, the Church and many within Islam increasingly share natural affinities.
Muslim scholars point out that the Quran does not restrict Paradise to Muslims. The Quran rewards all those of faith who perform righteousness and believe in the after-life. The Book calls Jesus Christ Messiah, Son of Mary, and by the names Messenger, Prophet, Servant, Word, and Spirit of God.4
It is important that we in the West understand there is a battle for the heart, soul, and direction of Islam and that not all Islam espouses violent jihad, as some Western media portray.
It is as well important that friends in the Islamic world understand there is a battle for the heart, soul, and direction of the Western world and that not all the West is morally decadent, as some Islamic media portray.
Several years ago, I was invited to speak at a convention of insurance executives in Vail, Colorado. On the way, we crossed the Colorado River.
We could see a new bridge in process of construction. It was an engineering marvel. Anchored to the sheer stone walls on both sides was an abutment for the bridge. Launching out into space from that abutment, reaching out for the other side, were sections of steel girders. When they met and were locked together in the middle 1,000 feet above the Colorado River, each would give strength to the other, and that bridge would be locked together over which traffic of all kinds could flow back and forth safely and conveniently.
Alwi, a devout Muslim of Arabic ancestry, and I, a Christian and devout Mormon, have agreed to symbolically walk arm in arm into the future. Together we hope to build a bridge. Except what that symbolizes is accomplished, all of us face a very dark and very dangerous future.
135 posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 10:14:52 AM by greyfoxx39
--------------------------------------------
To: greyfoxx39
More from...Al Shibi....note the lies and that still with all the push for tolerance and freedom of religion he stands on Mohammed...and states he must be accepted as the quran teaches,..without Mohammed their is no Islam....without Joseph Smith...there is no LDS.....without Jesus Christ all humanity is doomed...and there is no other path apart from Christ....
“......No one denies that Muslims are hurt and affected more than anyone else in relation to the several tragic events of late 9/11.... because the terrorists claimed an Islamic affiliation and justification—even though Islam never condones, let alone endorses, any act of terror.”.......
(Note his idea Muslims were hurt by 9/11 more than any other...)
.... “in the end, I believe, the West, if it is to understand Islam and the Muslims, HAS TO adopt the faith and teachings of the prophets of power or firm resolve, as have been described by the Quran—namely, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad.”......
(Once more only thru the quran and accepting Mohammed)
......”Islam is the very way of a life that is compatible with common reason and human decency—and, thus, democratic values, freedom, and human rights. In addition, the Muslim world is a great diversity of nations and cultures united by the idea of human goodwill, respect, love, and justice among all nations.”.........
(This guy is way off base about the teachings of Islam)
......”Islam has never been the reason for the suspension of freedom. On the contrary, Islam has taught humanity that there shall be no compulsion in religion. There shall be freedom in religion because the lie cannot be imposed and the truth needs no force.”......
(Can you believe this?)
.....”In other words, we must create in ourselves the sense that there are many paths to God, that the people of each path are held in special relationship to God: each chosen, not only for a mission but also for a special love.”....
(There are NOT many paths to God..another lie)
140 posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 11:52:48 AM by caww
It’s probably one of the main tenets of Lucifer’s gamebook: “Declare that you are the latest and/or last prophet of God. It helps to have considerable charisma. Guaranteed following of gullible souls. Your results may vary.”
There’s nothing new under the sun.
Have you ever been to Temple Square and taken their tour? These folks are down to earth nice, and respectful of others. No decapitations in Utah of outsiders who wander down the wrong trail either.
ML/NJ
Ping
(You obviously weren't a member of the Fancher party in the Mountain Meadows of Southern Utah per 1857, eh?)
Your apologetic could be said about millions of Muslims who haven't committed any acts of violence against anyone...or on behalf of millions of other Muslims who over the next 150 years may not contribute to the violence.
You know, those of Arab descent are over 1/3rd of the population of Dearborn, Michigan (a city of about 100,0000). In fact, if the Muslims were to have some tour of a Dearborn, Michigan mosque, we might hear your twin brother say: Have you ever been to a Dearborn Mosque and taken their tour? These folks are down to earth nice, and respectful of others. No decapitations in Dearborn, Michigan of outsiders who wander down the wrong trail either.
IBPD
No decapitations in Utah of outsiders who wander down the wrong trail either.
_________________________________________
Revisonist history much ???
ML/NJ
Absence of decapitations prove nothing. The same can be said of muslim communities in the west, and we see them grow steadily more violent and hostile as their numbers grow.
The question is what would the mormons do if they no longer had to consider the opinions of Christians. If the mormons or the muslims held the upper hand would we then see a return to polygamy with excess males being ostracised? Would we see a return to the violent ways of conquest that Joseph Smith called for? Who would they be if there was no Christian America they needed to fit into?
You’re spouting total BS. The mormons didn’t ‘stand and fight’. They maliciously butchered innocent settlers (including women and children) who tried to wander through their territory.
Blood atonement (throat slitting but often decapitation) was still being taught and practiced (although more quietly) clear up until the 1930’s.
There are also cases of blood atonement as recently as 10 years ago, and we can’t forget the Lebaron brothers who believed the early prophets so much the ‘blood atoned’ their sister in law. Read “Under the Banner of Heaven” for more about recent Blood atonement, also “Blood of the Prophets”, and I can give you other, recent books as well.
I have a friend (who is LDS) who is a cop in Utah and he says that every year there is at least one murder that is most likely blood atonement, even if it isn’t openly stated as such. Murder statistics, motives and methods in LDS culture is a very interesting study.
Just because it doesn’t make the news doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
Have you ever been to Temple Square and taken their tour? These folks are down to earth nice, and respectful of others.
____________________________________________
Have you ever invited a Moslem home for Thanksgiving Dinner ???
I have ...a girl from Iran who was a nursing student at my college...
It was 1979 and her family were supporters of the Shah..
She and her folks were down to earth nice, and respectful of others.
She was one of several Iranian students who were caught in Jimmuh Carter’s terrtorism against all Iranian students...
He had cancelled all the student visas over night...
The girls parents had begged her not to come home...
She was a friend of mine...
However she knew that I didnt agree with her beliefs...
but unlike many mormons she didnt verbally assault me...
I’m guessing that one of his reasons for posting the article was to wake up some of the complacent mormons who go along thinking that their church is unique and correct. It may stir them to thought and get them to searching...hopefully to discover the actual truth.
Mormons are just supposed to pray for a feeling, and to just "know" he was true.
TWELVE PROOFS THAT MOHAMMED WAS A TRUE PROPHET
nOTHING ABOUT BURNING BOSEMS IN THERE.
The point is that we are shedding light on Mormon beliefs.
What we hope to accomplish is 3 fold...
1) To show the world what Mormons really believe and teach using their own leader's and prophets words and their own (LDS) sources.
2) To help prevent Christians from getting sucked into Mormonism.
3) to extract Mormons from the clutches of the cult and to bring them to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ.
Now, before you chime in with "no one was ever persuaded by these methods" line (that we often get) let me inform you that I know of at least 3 people on FR who have left Mormonism because of what people like us do.
AND, I was brought out of Mormonism by these same methods.
AND, I have worked in ministry with many others who were persuaded by the same and similar methods.
Finally, if you don't want to see posts like this, do not click 'everything' on your sidebar.
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