Because of the Protestant Reformers Beliefs On Mary

Why I Am a Catholic ^ | 12/16/10 | Frank Weathers

[aruanan]

By using the term" "Mother of God" for Mary, a created being, the RCC gives the false impression that Mary preceded Christ which is insanity because the Triune God has no beginning and no ending.

This "giving of a false impression" is a product of your mind and your lack of familiarity with Catholic doctrine exacerbated by a certain philosophical obtuseness. Anyone with just the slightest bit of operational reason would know that someone who is the mother of God in time cannot be the origin of God's being before time or the world existed. Elizabeth called Mary the mother of her Lord--as a Jewish woman, the wife of a Jewish priest, both of whom were righteous in God's sight and who observed all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly, her Lord was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the creator of heaven and earth. She had no problem with her cousin Mary being the mother of her Lord. That's good enough for me.

I don't think Mary is a mediator. Jesus is the only mediator between God and man and the Holy Spirit in the believer's heart is the one who intercedes for him according to God's will. I don't think Mary is a co-redeemer. It's what Jesus did alone that is the basis for human redemption. I think both of those concepts, as I have heard them described, are just nuts.

[1000 silverlings]

Catholic theology proclaims her “the firstborn of every creature”(Col 1:15) which once again is the title that belongs to Christ alone, not Mary.

[Deo volente]

By using the term" "Mother of God" for Mary, a created being, the RCC gives the false impression that Mary preceded Christ which is insanity because the Triune God has no beginning and no ending.

That is a total misinterpretation of what the Church actually teaches. The "false impression" is entirely yours. I've never met a Catholic who holds this false impression, not a single one, nor heard of any Catholic priest or theologian who holds to this egregious error, that Mary pre-existed the Trinity.

The actual teaching about Mary, the Incarnation, Christ's Person, His two natures, and how these all relate together has been posted here literally thousands of times, in hundreds of posts over the last ten years or so, and yet we still hear these ridiculous assertions. The actual teaching has been posted scores of times over the past couple of day, ON THIS THREAD, yet we still have the over-the-top accusations coming out of thin air.

These kind of posts are either made out of ignorance, or designed simply to instigate more "fights", imo.

[Deo volente]

Wrong.
Colossians 1:15 refers to Christ, not Mary. The Church does not teach that it refers to Mary.

[Natural Law]

"and I showed you where two popes "had declared.""

No, you showed me where two popes, out of 265, had expressed a personal belief that you then proceeded to misrepresent. It is a pathetic expression of hatred that denies Christ and rejects His sacrifice.

[1000 silverlings]

That’s what I said, *Christ alone* is the firstborn, not Mary. Quix has a long list that Catholics claim is Mary’s role and this is one of them

[presently no screen name]

Elizabeth called Mary the mother of her Lord--as a Jewish woman, the wife of a Jewish priest, both of whom were righteous in God's sight and who observed all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly, her Lord was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the creator of heaven and earth.

Elizabeth KNEW the prophecy of a future Messiah coming. Wouldn't He have to be born first? Are you saying God needs to grow in wisdom? Jesus did because He was acting in another form - a flesh form, a human form.

She had no problem with her cousin Mary being the mother of her Lord. That's good enough for me.

And who Jesus said who His mother is - ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU? You take one Scripture and make a doctrine out of it.

I have said it over and over - JESUS isn't enough for the RCC, they want more. Just like the 'works' mentality for salvation - the Blood of JESUS isn't enough. WHO would want Jesus not to be enough? Who tempted Him, Who was after The Word from the beginning? That's where this deception comes from. And why? to ROB Jesus of those He died for. Satan comes to kill/rob/destroy. And The RCC is his pawn.

IMO, being anyway involved in deceptive teachings must do something to the ability to think for themselves in that area where they were deceived. Like a link to reasoning has dissolved. Deception is destructive as the Word states - perhaps, more than some realize - but they don't take The Word seriously enough to 'get it'. And I SPEAK from experience. Until one washes themselves in Truth and renew their 'deceptive' mind/teaching can that deception be erased. Thank YOU, Jesus!

[presently no screen name]

That is a total misinterpretation of what the Church actually teaches

Are you saying the RCC doesn't assign the divinity to Mary? What's ALL the 'co''s about?

In 2nd grade a nun corrected me when I said the mother of Jesus by saying she is the mother of God. I already knew God already existed - so how could he born? They consistently said mother of God for a reason. Because she didn't 'just' give birth to the man, JESUS. The man JESUS, Who died for our sins, WASN'T ENOUGH! And still isn't to the RCC with the 'works' mentality, or praying to Mary as 'co mediator'.

They don't teach about pre existing God but that is what they are implying without saying it - yet say it with their 'co's. She is the mother of the man, JESUS. It ends there! But that isn't good enough, is it?

[HossB86]

See Dr. E’s post at 1457; that is what I’ve been trying to explain, although with a great lack of eloquence.

“Mother of God” implies some foundation for “Queen of Heaven” — which she is NOT — all in all, as Dr. E states, this elevates the created to an equality with the Creator. Bad no matter how you cut it.

Thanks Dr. E; again, you nail it.

[BenKenobi]

That’s a good question. We are given a resurrection body that does not decay. It does not suffer or feel pain.

[maryz]

Dr. E's 1457 "nails it" only to those who do not believe that Christ is really, actually, genuinely God Incarnate, the Word become flesh at His conception; Jews and Muslims would have a problem with "Triune," but would otherwise have no problem with the sentiment.

[Quix]

This "giving of a false impression" is a product of your mind and your lack of familiarity with Catholic doctrine exacerbated by a certain philosophical obtuseness.

!NOPE!
IT'S A FUNCTION OF
BASIC WORD MEANINGS
IN THE LANGUAGE
AND
IN THE
NON-VATICAN-ALICE-IN-WONDERLAND-SCHOOL-OF-THEOLOGH-AND-REALITY-MANGLING
CULTURE OF THE REAL WORLD

WHERE
THERE'S
NO
VATICAN DAFFYNITIONARY,
WHERE THERE'S
A GREAT LACK OF
INGROWN, MYOPIC, WILLFUL BLINDNESS, IN-BRED, TUNNEL-VISIONED, MENTALLY WALLED-OFF, INSTITUTIONAL CLUELESSNESS, GROUP THINK, RIGID IN-GROUP HOSTILITY TO TRUTH,
. . .
CONSUMED SHEEPLE.


WHERE SANE, FAIR-MINDED INDIVIDUALS REALLY CAN READ SCRIPTURE AND HEAR HOLY SPIRIT LEADING THEM INTO THE TRUTHS OF SCRIPTURE WITHOUT SUFFERING VULCAN MIND MELDED IDIOCIES, BLASPHEMIES, IDOLATRIES, HERESIES FROM THE BUREAUCRATIC POLITICAL POWER MONGERING PSEUDO-THEOLOGICAL ELITES OF THE VATICAN MAGICSTERICALS.

[Quix]

INDEED. IN THE WORDS OF A LONG LIST OF RC'S OVER MANY CENTURIES:

THESE ARE NOT isolated idle musings of some few RC's. These are cherished, believed, practiced convictions of a huge percentage of Roman Catholics around the world and over several hundred years--greatly approved, encouraged, aided and abetted by the hierarchy, more or less from the top down, low such many years.

Below are a list of brazen examples
from a very popular devotional
VERY SANCTIONED, APPROVED AND ENCOURAGED
by the Vatican system & hierarchy.
.
.
.

Some have said that the language below
is 'merely' hyperbolic adoration.
I don't think that's what
GOD ALMIGHTY WOULD LABEL IT.
I'm convinced that
GOD ALMIGHTY
CALLS IT
BRAZEN DEMONICALLY
FACILITATED, ENCOURAGED & LED
IDOLATRY AND BLASPHEMY.
He doesn't usually mince words.
.
.
.
WERE MARY HERSELF POSTING ON FR
I BELIEVE HER DENOUNCIATIONS OF SUCH
WOULD BE MUCH MORE FIERCE THAN MINE!
.
.
.
I was involved in a house church
famous all over Southern California
for its deliverance ministry and follow-up.
Mental hospitals and pastors sent their worst cases
to us--the ones they gave up on.
By God's grace, Christ's Blood and Holy Spirit
operating in servant-hearted love through
a lot of dedicated people who opened their homes
to such folks,
many were set free--lastingly free.
.
.
.
I learned a lot in that church.
One of the things that I OBSERVED,
I see a LOT hereon.
there's a characteristic
TYPE OF RESPONSE
WHEN A PERSON AWASH
IN DEMONIC INFLUENCES
(I don't think it matters
whether they are resident
or hovering around)
GETS CHALLENGED, EXHORTED,
HAS THEIR PRIDE PRICKED.
I see a LOT of that TYPE of response, hereon.
.
.
.

Below are the examples
of exalting other deities.
They are real.
They are serious.
They are owned,
operated in,
manifested in,
heart-felt wallowed in
by millions of Roman Catholics around the world.
Pretending otherwise does not change the facts.
White washing it with magicsterical diplospeak
doesn't change the facts.
Rationalizing it with 101 weasel words
doesn't change the facts.
.
.
.

the FACTS are easy enough to see below
for anyone with
more discernment than a gnat's.
.
.
.

Those reading this with any consciousness above comotose
no longer have any excuse.
.
.
.
Holy Spirit will be nudging, urging, forsaking of all such
--ALL HINT OF SUCH--
IGNORING HIS LEADING, NUDGING, URGING
in such matters can be spiritually deadly.
Very spiritually deadly.
.
.
.

ONCE AGAIN,
just a small part of
THE EVIDENCE: .
.
.

Here's the title:

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Meditations-Mysteries-Rosary-Ferraro/dp/0819801577/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272938246&sr=1-2

And it carries the official sanctions of:

ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.

WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR

Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .

Here they are:

However, as we've seen through a variety of sources--a pile of them in Ferraro's manual about the Rosary--the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC's hereon to the contrary.

p.32
.
[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .

p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.

5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.

6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.

"Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary's help, quickly slide toward hell." --Richard of St Victor

p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence

p41
"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18

p43
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"

p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.'
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's vanquishing sin was unnecessary--or ineffectual without Mary's assistance?]

p46
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue."
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]

9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'
.
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]

p47
4 - "Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.'
.
[Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]

5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."
.
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]

p47
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."

p50
8 - "If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?"

p50
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."

[HossB86]

Funny; I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, God Incarnate, The Word become flesh — the second person of the Godhead — I believe in the Triune God.

I also believe what the Bible (God’s Word) says about Jesus (The Word) being present with God in the beginning — John 1:1. Jesus, The Word made flesh, was born of Mary — she is his mother as she bore him in the flesh. But God the Son was, is, and will ever be, eternal; without beginning or end.

I don’t believe in a bunch of Roman Catholic Church hogwash.

So, Dr. E. nailed it for me despite what you may think (or not think) that I believe.

Hoss

[Deo volente]

She is the mother of the man, JESUS. It ends there! But that isn't good enough, is it?

No, it's not good enough. The "man", Jesus, is also God. Mary is the mother of the PERSON, Jesus. He is a Divine Person, with two natures, human and Divine. These two natures are united in His Person, not separated. Mary became His mother at the moment of His conception in her womb, by the power of the Holy Spirit. She was not His mother before this point.
She is the mother of the Person, not merely of His human nature. Your assertion to the contrary is the essence of the old Nestorian heresy, which no mainline Christian church holds to anymore.

There have been literally thousands of posts here on this forum over the past ten years explaining this teaching to death. I'm not going to start all over again from the beginning. You've been here constantly through these years, you can look at the posts/links, etc. explaining the Catholic teaching about Mary.

[maryz]

I can’t subscribe to Nestorianism — I hope you’re very happy with it!

[HossB86]

Great googly-moogly!

Now. To all those who have been claiming otherwise, explain THOSE statements!!!!

Thanks for the “Quixification”

Hoss

[Quix]

Sure.

LOL.

[Natural Law]

"What's ALL the 'co''s about?"

As described ad nauseum (literally until we are sick of it) co, in this case does not mean equal. From the Latin "cum" it means with.