NIV Bible Error Lucifer AND Jesus are ONE in the NIV

2010 | bibletruth

[bibletruth]

NIV Bible error - Lucifer AND Jesus are ONE in the NIV. See Isaiah 14:12.

[ravenwolf]

Btw, in Poland we don't call priests Father, we call them "ksiądz" which is quite different from father which is "tatuś" or "ojciec" -- Ksiądz translates as priest. ======================================================== So?

[wagglebee]

Excellent post.

The YOPIOS crowd cannot seem to grasp the simple FACT that the KJV is based almost entirely on the Textus Receptus and even a little bit from the Vulgate.

They seem to ignore the FACT that the Textus Receptus was translated by Erasmus using Greek minuscules that mainly date from the 12th and 13th centuries (I don't believe that any of them were older than the 11th century) and that Erasmus used the Vulgate wherever necessary to "fill in the blanks."

They also ignore the FACT that Erasmus was a CATHOLIC PRIEST who strongly rejected the Reformation.

The simple FACT is that the Textus Receptus, Douay-Rheims AND the KJV are all little more than translations of the Vulgate (the KJV and Douay-Rheims Bible are far more similar to each other than either is to any modern Protestant or Catholic translation). When Saint Jerome translated the Vulgate he had the advantage of having access to Greek and Hebrew manuscripts that no longer exist (the YOPIOS crowd would love to claim there is some sort of conspiracy to destroy manuscripts, but the truth is that parchment cracks and deteriorates over time) and this means that it is almost certainly the best translation.

[ravenwolf]

Guys — this is a perfect example of sola scriptura gone wild! Now it’s breaking into sub-sults: sola KJVa versus sola NIVa etc. etc.

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The funny thing is that many people would not admit that Jesus drink wine many years before the N.I.V. even came out which was 1978.

Appears to me they are trying to make Jesus over to be good enough for them.

[wagglebee]

Wow, now there is some massive twisting of scripture (actually, I've seen this a bunch). The one I love is when they use the contradiction that the 'juice' wasn't actually wine, but at the same time, they say it was watered down to purify water that couldn't be drunk. You can't have it both ways. Also, their justification regarding wine not being wine contradicts so many biblical passages, it isn't even funny. They should just admit they have a problem with booze instead of twisting the bible to say something it doesn't.

You make a good point. People cannot seem to grasp that the notion of the the wine being juice was unheard of before the temperance movement began in the 19th century.

The other thing they seem to overlook is the fact that it was IMPOSSIBLE to make fruit juice prior to the development of pasteurization in the late 19th century. Without pasteurization fruit juice ferments on its own and this process begins almost immediately (especially with grape juice).

As far as the argument that Jesus would have made juice rather than wine because of purity, that is laughable. Juice must be pasteurized AND refrigerated if it is not drank immediately, the people in the time of Christ didn't have the ability to do either of these things and wouldn't for another eighteen centuries. Why would our Lord make something that would begin to spoil within minutes? Wine on the other hand DOES NOT SPOIL; it will turn to vinegar and may taste horrible, but it doesn't spoil.

[Cronos]

evn: Not at all full of self as you judge, but full of God’s Word as I have devoured it like a mad-man for thirty-years and know what it says. I don’t need a church nor a man to tell me what it says

Woohoo -- I know a man who says that his reading of 30 odd years is better than a community of believers reading and studying and devoting their lives to the Bible for 2000 years! My community, my Church, WE learn from, WE learn together. It is never "I, I, I" like the sola MEo crowd.

And what happens when this person who has read for 30 years has a different opinion from another person who has read it for 30 years? They both can't have sola interpretura.

[mnehring]

They are just attempting to create God in their image.

I wonder, with what you said, how did the ‘juice’ last from the grape harvest that took place in the fall until the Passover feast, when 4 glasses of wine are drunk as part of the Seder? (could it be, fermentation? hmmmmmm..)

[ravenwolf]

They should just admit they have a problem with booze instead of twisting the bible to say something it doesn’t.

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I am afraid if they done that, then they would have to admit they have a problem with Jesus, he would not be good enough for them.

[Cronos]

Then Tut is King?

Yes :-P

Though, have you ever seen an episode of Count Duckula called "No Sax please, we're egyptian"?

it has a hilarious episode where the vegetarian vampire Duck, Count Duckula, is captured by ghostly servants of the Pharoah Upsherises who are called "Hoomite" and "Ube".

Duckula wakes up and they say "I am Ube and this is Hoomite. And who might you be?"....

[Cronos]

I agree -- there are better things to have a sensible debate about (Homoiousios anyone?) than something as silly as this article where bibTut says if you use the same title for someone else, then it means the two people are the same. duuuh...

[Cronos]

you misunderstood me, I refuted the statement by Sentinel that the NIV is based on the D-R. I pointed out that the only reason the NIV looks similar to the D-R does not mean that it is derived from the D-R

[Cronos]

MD: The problem with freshly pressed grape juice is to keep it from fermenting. You don't have to 'pitch' it with yeast (unless, as is wise, you want to make sure that good strains of yeast outnumber the bad.) Wild yeasts will start "working" right away. Unless you pasteurize the cloudy must after filtering, it will ferment, "and that right early."

Interesting, so the fermentation process is the natural outcome while the grape juice in bottles with all chemicals added to PREVENT it from fermenting is actually artificial

This goes against evangs Jesus Christ never created anything tainted, and fermented juice is tainted. statement

[Cronos]

MD: The problem with freshly pressed grape juice is to keep it from fermenting. You don't have to 'pitch' it with yeast (unless, as is wise, you want to make sure that good strains of yeast outnumber the bad.) Wild yeasts will start "working" right away. Unless you pasteurize the cloudy must after filtering, it will ferment, "and that right early."

Interesting, so the fermentation process is the natural outcome while the grape juice in bottles with all chemicals added to PREVENT it from fermenting is actually artificial

This goes against evangs Jesus Christ never created anything tainted, and fermented juice is tainted. statement

[Iscool]

You are forgetting the rest of the verse and taking that one verse out of context. The Pope does not exalt himself nor does he flaunt any superiority, Instead he is a servant, just as Christ was and is

Shirley you jest...

He plants himself on a throne for crying out loud...People bow down to him...They kiss his feet...People gather by the millions just to get a glimpse of your pope...

No one is allowed to wear pope clothes except your pope...He does exactly what God's word warns us against...

[Cronos]

So your entire argument on Matthew 23 “call no man father” rings of someone who may only know the English speaking world. In Poland for example we don’t call priests “Father”, so your argument fails

[mnehring]

To put it simply- fermentation is a God created process.
Pasteurization is a man created process.

The ‘juice’ crowd is putting their faith in a man created process.

[Cronos]

So, let me raise the font so that the toot seekers get it

the KJV is based almost entirely on the Textus Receptus and even a little bit from the Vulgate.

the Textus Receptus was translated by Erasmus ... (he) used the Vulgate wherever necessary to "fill in the blanks."

Erasmus was a CATHOLIC PRIEST who strongly rejected the Reformation

the Latin Vulgate was/is the CATHOLIC translation by St. Jerome

So, The KJV is derived from two translations:
1. the Latin Vulgate of the Catholic Church and
2. a translation by a Catholic priest

So, I guess they got to now toss out the KJV just like they are tossing out the NIV? So what will happen to solo scriptura folks?

[wagglebee]

Exactly, temperatures in Jerusalem in the spring are often in the 70s, there would be no way to keep the wine from fermenting.

As I said, the temperance movement began in the early to mid 19th centuries (and was pretty much contained the US, Canada, the UK, Australia and NZ, it NEVER caught on anywhere else). Even today, the whole juice at Communion idea is pretty limited to English-speaking churches.

Americans are largely unaware of the fact that the Great Awakening of the 18th and 19th centuries only happened in the UK and America (and it had a much greater impact in America than the UK). The evangelical churches that many Americans belong to are totally unheard of throughout most of the world (aside from those churches started by missionaries).

[Iscool]

Then how come the original language shows those two instances being two completely different terms, yet they are translated the same?

Ha...Who you trying to kid??? You have never seen the originals and no one you know has ever seen the originals...

[Cronos]

Ha! Ha! No one kisses or has kissed JPs or BXVI's feet! I remember you, Iscool also once said "I bet the Pope has never washed anyone's feet like Christ did" -- and then there were a lot of photographs showing what the Pope does EACH Maundy Thursday -- in fact at each Maundy Thursday celebration everywhere around the world, the celebrant must wash the feet of twelve.

Iscool -- I feel so much pity for someone who hates what he thinks he knows. Your lack of knowledge of The Church is apparent in every post and yet you post hatred against us and yet you spread your own distorted idea posing it as fact when it so provably is NOT.

For someone who has never gone for a mass or read even a few chapters of the Catechism or Church History, it's laughable for you to post such erroneous statements.

[Cronos]

Iscool : You have never seen the originals and no one you know has ever seen the originals...

Isn't it hilarious in this internet age for folks to spout such nonsense?