[editor-surveyor]

Sticking our heads in the mill for more punishment?

[Gamecock]

Part 2 of 2.

Apparitions of the Virgin Mary: A Protestant Look at a Catholic Phenomenon: Part One

[airborne]

I admire your bravery for posting this.

From what I’ve witnessed lately here on FR, the Roman Catholic Church is a favorite target of some.

I wish you good luck and God’s blessings!

[vladimir998]

1991? Wow, business must be slow in anti-Catholic land this week.

[mlizzy]

The apparitions in Yugoslavia are not approved by the Church. And chances of them being approved (IMO) are next to nil.

[presently no screen name]

"Obey your grandmother and be good to her because she is old and cannot work."

I'm sure that was revelation knowledge to the girl./s

Apparition: "I am the Blessed Virgin Mary.

You can't be Mary, she had other children. Going to those already deceived to spread the deception should work.

[RnMomof7]

Even though the local Bishop thinks Medjugorje is not true people will flock to that rather than Christ..

Because the people flock there Rome will declare it true and canonize the girls..

And the world will have one more mary to worship

[gitmo]

(1) Jesus was born without sin -- Mary was conceived without original sin. (2) Jesus was sinless -- Mary also lived a sinless life. (3) Following His resurrection, Jesus ascended into heaven -- Mary was assumed bodily into heaven. (4) Jesus is a mediator -- Mary is a mediatrix. (5) Jesus is the Redeemer -- Mary is the coredemptrix. (6) Jesus is the new Adam -- Mary is the new Eve. (7) Jesus is the King -- Mary is the Queen.

Is this really Catholic doctrine?

[FreshPrince]

So Marian Doctrine is “unbiblical?

Well, so is “Sola Scriptura”

[CatholicTim]

I wish all Protestants would read former evangelical, now Catholic, Mark Shea's trilogy on Mary. This would clear up a lot of confusion. Catholics do not worship Mary. She is fully human, not divine.

If you are too lazy to read Mark's books, you might want to consider reading John Henry Newman's “An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine”. He was an Anglican that wanted to understand the origins of Catholic doctrines concerning Mary (which he did not agree with at first). After his study he eventually joined the Catholic Church. Here is a link:

http://www.newmanreader.org/works/development/index.html

Finally I left the schismatic, subjective wilderness of evangelical Protestantism 6 years ago when I discovered the fallacies of Sola Scriptura and the beauty of true historical Christianity—as it has always been practiced for 2000 years.

Sola Scriptura is not part of any historical orthodox Christian tradition. Every early church quote I have read by Protestants are from those who also attest to the authority of tradition and the church—never Sola Scriptura. Saying that scripture is without error and inspired proves nothing since Catholics (and Eastern Orthodox) also affirm the same.

Sola Scriptura is contradicted in scripture (for example — 1 Tim. 3:15, Matt 16 and Matt 18 — which speak to the authority of the church and 1 Corinthians 11:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15 — which speak to the authority of apostolic tradition.)

No quote from scripture can be used to support Sola Scriptura. This is simply a theological assumption.

Also, all Marian doctrines do have implicit support from scripture. Once you start connecting the dots you can clearly see them. There are plenty of good articles on www.catholic.com about the scriptural support for Marian doctrines.

I will ask our mother (Rev 12:17) to pray for you all. Her prayers are powerful.

God bless

[Lee N. Field]

Practice and dry runs for the big deception at the end.

"Lying signs and wonders."

[lastchance]

“Problems with Medjugorje”

There are many.

[studsterkel]

Gamecock. To be brief, all your representations about how the Catholic Church regards the Blessed Mother are incorrect.

To briefly respond.

1. Co-mediator/trix. “Co” doesn’t mean equal to. Don’t we ask people to “pray for us”? What are they doing when they do that? Interceding for us. that is what we ask Mary to do. The Bible says we are God’s “CO”-workers. Can’t God do it himself? Yes, but God allows us to do it WITH him. Just like Mary is a mediator WITH (but lesser than) Jesus

2. Queen. John was shown Mary (with a complete body) IN Heaven, wearing a CROWN of 12 stars.

3. “FULL of Grace.” If you’re FULL of Grace you are without sin as it is only Grace that allows us to not sin. If you are born FULL of Grace (meaning not being able to receive any more - practically speaking), then you were given by God everything needed to not ever sin. This is so brief it borders on injustice. sorry.

4. Revelation says that all the people who worship Christ are Mary’s offspring. Making all Christians her children. Mary is the New Eve. Was Eve the “Mother of all Creation”?

5. Elizabeth teaches us that Mary is “The Mother of my Lord.” Lord means “God” as it does in ALL the surrounding usages of the term Lord in the Gospel of Luke. If Mary is the Mother of God, then maybe that is significant and something we should pay attention to? (You ask “HOW can she be the ‘Mother of God’ if God existed before she did???” Well, ask God. God chose the vessel of how he would be born into this world. He created his vessel. He created Mary. Why would he not (1) choose to create a sinless vessel and (2) give her a special place in Salvation History? Why reject that?

God didn’t have to use Mary. He could have had Jesus simply appear. He didn’t. The Catholic Church responds to revelation from God. Why reject such revelation solely to disagree with the Catholic Church?