Posted on 11/08/2010 9:08:19 AM PST by Colofornian
It's never too late for a soul to be Mormon.
Since 1840, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have been encouraged to perform baptisms in temples for their deceased relatives.
However, the Mormon baptism of hundreds of thousands of Jewish Holocaust victims created a 15-year controversy for the Salt Lake City-based church. On Sept. 1, the church made an agreement with Jewish leaders, acknowledging that the practice had "unintentionally caused pain," with an LDS pledge to American Jewish leaders to stop the practice.
Yet church critics say it's easier said than done, and the Holocaust exception doesn't stop the secret proxy baptisms of people of all faiths without their closest family members' consent or knowledge.
Genealogical researcher and ex-Mormon Helen Radkey, who helped uncover the baptisms of Holocaust victims, said she doubts that the agreement, which promised more computer-system controls, will be the end of the problem.
"Members can still put in the name of non-relatives," Radkey said.
Church spokeswoman Kim Farah acknowledged: "The system will never be perfect, but we feel we have achieved balance and respect."
The LDS system is vast, reliant on complete obedience by members and apparently too unwieldy for officials to monitor, Radkey said, given the many strange submissions she has uncovered.
The pope and Mickey
Overzealous Mormons and some pranksters have caused the church considerable embarrassment by baptizing — often without their families' permission — the famous and the infamous, such as Pope John Paul II, serial killer Ted Bundy, cartoon character Mickey Mouse and very recently, "Crocodile Hunter" Steve Irwin.
Radkey, a Salt Lake City resident, has long bedeviled church authorities by gaining access to its "members-only" computer system and reporting on some of the stranger personages baptized by proxy in LDS temples.
"Every famous person goes in the system eventually. The fictional characters like Mickey Mouse are just graffiti," she said.
Audrey Hepburn, Rita Hayworth, Ernest Hemingway, Adolph Hitler and Eva Braun are just a few of the names Radkey said she's found.
LDS church defenders have criticized Radkey's motives, which they say include a grudge against the church, but she has been credited by others, including Gary Mokotoff, past president of the International Association of Jewish Genealogical Societies, as a capable researcher and spiritual whistle-blower.
For entry into heaven
Despite the publicity, rebaptizing people who chose other faiths during their lifetimes is one of the Mormons' "most sacred expressions of faith," Elder T. Todd Christofferson, a member of the LDS Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, said in a written statement.
The LDS church teaches that its sacrament of baptism is required for entry into the kingdom of heaven.
For those souls who lived before Joseph Smith founded the LDS church in 1830, and for those who lived after Smith but weren't baptized Mormon, the church provides temple baptism of the dead by proxy.
The church doesn't recognize other denominations' baptisms because it believes that, after Jesus Christ was crucified and the Apostles martyred, a time of darkness ensued until Prophet Joseph Smith restored true Christianity on earth.
The church holds that temple baptisms must eventually be performed for everyone who was not baptized into the faith in this life.
"We believe that families are eternal, and baptizing our ancestors means our families can be together forever. It's one of the biggest blessings we could ever give anyone," said Mormon Jen Frandsen.
Church authorities ask the 13.5 million members around the world, and 137,000 in Colorado, to voluntarily comply with the policy that they stick to their own family members, however distantly related, rather than perform the ceremony for celebrities and historical figures.
Before performing baptisms for a dead family member born within the last 95 years, members are instructed to get permission from the person's closest living relative, church policy states. Many do not.
"Church members are getting a mixed message," Radkey said. "They're told: 'Here are the rules.' But, on the other hand, 'Every soul must be offered salvation.' "
The only exception
In the case of Jewish Holocaust victims, Mormons cannot perform temple baptisms unless the church member is an immediate family member or has the permission of all living immediate family members (or the closest living relative if there is no one else).
The American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors and their Descendants expressed gratitude.
"Out of all the humans who ever lived, the church has carved out Jewish Holocaust victims as the only exception to a universal doctrine," former New York state attorney Bob Abrams told The Jewish Week. Abrams called the special consideration "an enormous concession."
The church has removed a few hundred thousand names of Jewish Holocaust victims from its International Genealogical Index
"Because of the enormity of the Holocaust in human memory, the church will continue to address the issue of improper submission of Holocaust names when it arises. However, the church cannot accept restrictions on its doctrines or freedoms imposed by another group," says a church statement recently given to The Post by LDS headquarters.
The church holds there is nothing coercive about its offering of baptism.
"A departed soul in the afterlife is completely free to accept or reject such baptism," according to LDS church statements. "The church has never claimed the power to force deceased persons to become church members."
Electa Draper: 303-954-1276 or edraper@denverpost.com
Exactly.
From the article: "Out of all the humans who ever lived, the church has carved out Jewish Holocaust victims as the only exception to a universal doctrine," former New York state attorney Bob Abrams told The Jewish Week. Abrams called the special consideration "an enormous concession."
Well, why have Mormons made Jews the only exception?
If ALL souls waiting out there in Mormon spirit prison need to become Mormons, why have they exempted many Jews? Would the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob want Jews to be excluded from "second-chance salvation?"
Why one doctrine applicable to Jews vs. another doctrine applicable to the rest?
From the article: The church doesn't recognize other denominations' baptisms because it believes that, after Jesus Christ was crucified and the Apostles martyred, a time of darkness ensued until Prophet Joseph Smith restored true Christianity on earth.
My, my, how arrogant. Here a pimply-faced 14 yo boy concludes Christianity went into total darkness a 1-2 centuries after Christ. And now millions of Mormons still believe him.
All religions have their goofy aspects, but some are particularly well-endowed in this regard.
If you peruse Family Search Centers sponsored by the Mormon church, or various online Web sites, you will notice a pattern. There’s Mormon groups of people here that spend an inordinate amount of their time seeking their dead ancestors -- and yours. They go through the same regurgitated electronic and paper record shuffle daily.
To say they have a misguided obsession just doesn't aptly explain it. I mean, imagine you're part of a group that has less than 10 million active members worldwide...and only a few million that claim active access to your inner sanctum temple. And then, I as your "prophet" tell you that you only have to come up with the names and birth and death records of the billions of people who've ever lived...including pre-Gutenberg times (pre-1456).
And then you have to go into the temple and perform "works" on their behalf that will supposedly "save" them...and often it might involve your teen-age son being part of the process in acting as a "proxy."
You can witness many different tactics employed by Mormons seeking their dead that you might find quite interesting. The straw man proxy baptism is a big favorite (it's a "straw man" because there's really no unbaptized person there in that temple!!!) and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking records from other church denominations and has even included baptizing Jews from concentration camp lists!
Another temple favorite is for Mormons to "marry off" dead spirits in these temples using genealogical information, often times totally bogus historical information! ! (It's true)
Let me provide you with three examples as to how Mormons have "appended...[the] life history" of numerous individuals, including Jesus Christ, a Roman Catholic priest, and even a Mormon fundamentalist murderer!:
Did you know that these Mormon tactics include "sealing" records (rituals performed in the Mormon temple) -- that:
(a) Jesus is now "married"/sealed to Mary Magdalene, per our zealous Mormon match-makers?
(b) And Father Damien, a RC priest, was also posthumously "sealed" so that he, too, is now "married"
(c) And a fundamentalist Mormon killer who was divorced was posthumously "re-married" to his ex-spouse.
Documentation for all of these Mormon "religious" acts follow @ the end of this post, if you care to take the time to read them.
Prior to the dedication of the San Diego Mormon temple in 1993, local Mormon families were even "given a packet entitled Family Temple Preparation Material. Included in this written material were about seven pages devoted to "true stories" of temple patrons who were visited by the dead.
Source: They see dead people?
Other related stories on seeking the dead:
The Spirit World, Our Next Home
PREACHING THE GOSPEL IN THE SPIRIT WORLD: What Did Peter Really Teach?
The Mormon church even includes accounts of supposed dead spirits visiting their leaders in their Sunday School lessons! Source: pp. 1-2 of LDS Sunday School Lesson
Sometimes they cruise the cemeteries of the dead seeking any fingernail remnant of informational DNA from the dead that could eventually be twisted into how, "Look, we've baptized more dead people who will accept the Mormon 'gospel' and become Mormons in the spirit world." Any record morsel will be devoured; just watch the progression of "genealogical research" that's unfolding in the Mormon church and see what I mean.
After looking over the "PR" side of how the Mormon church is presenting information about their genealogical work, I invite you to review some recent threads as to how Mormons "seek after the dead."
****************
Documentation of Claims A/B/C above:
From article documenting (a) above: On May 27, 2010, “Maria Magdelena” was listed in New FamilySearch with her birth date as “1504 Israel,” and death date as “before 1540 Israel.” Both years are likely inventions. Along with “spouse” “Jesus Cristian,” “Maria Magdelena” was baptized and confirmed a member of the LDS Church by proxy on April 8, 2010 in the “Salt Lake City Utah Temple.” She was subjected to initiatory temple ordinances on April 8, 2010; an endowment ceremony on April 9, 2010; and the marriage “sealing” to “Jesus Cristian” on April 9, 2010—all rites were done in the “Salt Lake City Utah Temple.” Mary Magdalene is described in the New Testament as a faithful follower of Jesus. Because the concept of marriage is strongly emphasized in LDS teachings, the notion that a spousal relationship existed between Jesus and Mary Magdalene is common among Mormons—although that belief is not formal LDS doctrine. There is no reliable historical evidence to indicate that Jesus was married—to Mary Magdalene, or anyone else. Source: Jesus Christ was baptized and “sealed” to Mary Magdalene
From column documenting (b) above: "It's blatantly wrong to seal a person who took a vow of celibacy as a Catholic priest and is so revered in his Catholic religion," said Radkey, a former Catholic. Source: Helen Radkey and Salt Lake Tribune strike again
Why is the Lds church playing "matchmaker" post-death with single RC priests? Answer: Lds say single people are shut out of the highest degree of glory in heaven. Therefore, if Father Damien was going to get there, they had to find a way to marry him off -- in the nether world!
This whole religious shenanigans brought this out in a Yahoo Question: Mormons "marry" dead Catholic priest posthumously to a woman he likely never was married to in life. Why?
This whole enterprise is a literal Mormon marriage machine for dead spirits...
From the article documenting (c) above: The LDS Church has disowned Mormon fundamentalists. In sharp contradiction, the LDS temple system systematically validates the plural marriages of dead ex-Mormon polygamists through its marriage sealing rituals. An example of many such individuals is Rulon Clark Allred, who was excommunicated from the LDS Church in 1940 for practicing polygamy...As though killers will share an eternal reward with their victims, Ervil Morrell LeBaron — the Mormon fundamentalist behind the death of Rulon Allred — was sealed by proxy in 2002 to Delfina Salido, from whom he was divorced. Source: Mormon Church Quietly Endorses Polygamous (Afterlife) Marriages of Excommunicated Fundamentalists
We need to understand that Mormons clarify their belief that marriages are forever by saying that applies only to those who reach the highest degree of glory. So Mormons believe murderers need proxy eternal marriage sealings 'cause they represent the highest degree of works-righteousness folks?
“baptizing” a dead person is nothing more than magic. It has nothing to do with Christianity.
I know they’re trying to be nice, but they need to knock this stuff off.
For sure, they’d have a cow if some Muslim sect sprang up in Provo UT and the members of that mosque went through LDS graveyards kneeling at each gravestone, laying spiced dates on each grave, and praying their hullaballoo chanting announcing that each dead person in the cemetery has now accepted Mohammed as the last prophet and glorious messenger of Allah, inshallah.
—yeah—there is that one out there with a three-part “G-D”, who is his own father and son by a peasant girl who lacked the original sin her ancestress got by listening to a talking snake in a magic tree, everywhere listening in telepathically on everyone, who gains body and blood every time one of his followers nibbles some cracker and wine, etc., etc.,-—
If every soul must be "Mormonized..." And the Mormons are deliberately trying to steer clear of some Jews...what does that tell you...which department within Lds Inc trumps another?
(The PR Department trumpts the Theology Department...the PR Department is the most powerful department within Lds Inc...and what would you expect? Most Lds general authorities are businessmen...and PR reigns supreme among businessmen)
Mormons agree to stop baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims
_________________________________________________
AGAIN ????
How many times has this happened ???
and how many times have the mormons failed to live up to what they promised ???
Cant you say “liars” ???
Meanwhile what about my Christian ancestors who got dead dunked in mormonism ???
Sorry...Historic Christianity has insisted that each Person of the Trinity is fully God. So you have the wrong mathematical formula here: You are saying 1/3rd + 1/3rd + 1/3rd = 1.
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, (Colossians 2:9)
The word for "fulness" here is tied to "volume." How do you get volume for a rectangular prism, rellimpank? (Height times width times length)
Therefore 1x1x1 = 1
God is at least three-dimensional, and volume measures how much three-dimensional space a substance (solid, liquid, gas, or plasma) or shape occupies or contains.
One thing that is interesting about the data that the Mormons are collecting, is that it can be analyzed for consistency and reliability. In other words, fraudulent data can be detected. Say, for example, there was some manipulation of population data by oh, let’s say the Communists, who wanted to cover up an episode of genocide. Or, perhaps some data was created to inflate a claim of genocide.
Just saying, that genealogical data is a very complex matrix of connections and facts that is virtually impossible to fake on a large scale.
I will never understand how anyone can ask a person to disobey his religious beliefs short of converting him from those beliefs. "Every religion is beautiful, but every religion needs to be adjusted from what it is to something else." An oxymoron.
My, my, how arrogant. Here a pimply-faced 14 yo boy concludes Christianity went into total darkness a 1-2 centuries after Christ. And now millions of Mormons still believe him.
I agree. Martin Luther was just shy of his 34th birthday when he came to the same conclusion.
It is the strange believe that YOUR actions can save the soul of someone already dead. And as you say, there is nothing in Christianity that teaches that there is anything to help the souls of the dead.
Roman Catholic teaching, yes...but nowhere in the Bible...N/A to me, and somebody's Christian faith doesn't make it or break it on this...nor does it waste vast amounts of time believing it -- as does baptism for the dead
who gains body and blood every time one of his followers nibbles some cracker and wine, etc., etc.,
Hey, if you committed a crime...and somebody else does your time...
And if each time you saw a metal bar, or even other usages of that word, it reminded you of the prison bars that were rightfully "yours"...And if you chose to religiously recognize that in some symbolic way...say once a month, you'd pick out terrible food at a local "bar"...knowing that the guy doin' your time was eating equally horrid food...what'd be wrong with celebrating your freedom via that kind of "solidarity?"
I’m with you, ZC. It makes no difference to me if Mormons perform their harmless baptism ritual on my dead ancestors.
Not true. (I guess you flunked Reformation - era history, eh?)
#1. Luther never wanted to form his own church. He didn't name a church after himself. His goal was reformation, not restoration from ground zero.
"At the time of the Reformation the Lutheran Church did not make such a complete break with the Catholic Church as did the Reformed. In fact some Lutherans point out with pride that Lutheranism was a "moderate Reformation." While all protestants appealed to the Bible as a final authority, the tendency in Lutheranism was to keep as much of the old system as did not have to be thrown out, while the tendency in the Reformed Church was to throw out all that did not have to be kept." Source: http://www.worldwithoutend.info/bbc/books/lb-reform/28-02.htm
But in this way, you are like the Mormons. What you -- and Mormons -- don't seem to understand is that whereas others toss out Paul as being off-base, Protestants don't. When Paul wrote: Unto him be glory in the Church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages World Without End Amen." (Eph. 3:21)...he meant it.
It wasn't a false prophesy. Paul was prophesying that God would receive glory IN THE CHURCH...THROUGHOUT ALL AGES.
Unlike Mormons -- and apparently you -- Luther and the other reformers didn't counter Eph. 3:21. They recognized the glory God received in the universal church through the first 14 plus centuries.
Too bad it took fourteen hundred years to discover that the epistles of Paul were in the "new testament." Must have been some gum sticking the pages together or something.
It ain't just Paul I toss out as being "off-base," pal.
Well, you're not making sense here.
Too bad it took fourteen hundred years to discover that the epistles of Paul were in the "new testament." Must have been some gum sticking the pages together or something.
Well, you're not making sense here.
Sure I am. You're just choosing to "ignore it" rather than "deal with it." Guess that makes you a mormon too.
Now, now....maybe the dead were asked if they objected and with no answer forthcoming....well, it was just assumed it was o.k.
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