I still have no malice towards anyone here I remain puzzled
Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...
It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).
LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:
"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).
LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:
"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:
"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).
LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)
LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:
"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:
"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)
LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:
"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:
"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).
As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:
"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]
Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:
"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]
LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:
"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).
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What the Bible Says About God
1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.
"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12
"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6
"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25
The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.
2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.
"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4
"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9
"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17
"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5
"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142
The LDS god achieved holiness.
3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.
"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28
"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5
The LDS god had to learn everything.
4. ALL POWERFUL
"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6
"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20
The LDS god attained his power.
5. OMNIPRESENT
"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1
"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24
The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.
6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION
"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24
"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6
"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6
The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.
7. NO OTHER GODS
"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11
"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8
"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9
"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8
The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.
For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:
Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science
I still have no malice towards anyone here I remain puzzled
I’ve never seen you EVER do other than spread ugliness and meanness. I’m done with you Resty. Good bye.
Excuse me Vendome there is no proxy maybe a misunderstanding but no proxy.
I ping 1010RD to # 710 somehow he ended up on #2!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2622457/posts?page=710#710
You forgot about the “Who me, I am all about brotherhood yada yada yada” half of the Restornu shtick...
Mormon Women sing “There is Sunshine in My Soul Today”
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGzPiWEdbeA&feature=related
21,000 Mormon Women sing “Now Let Us Rejoice”
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=QWJ0gywLe2Y&feature=related
Not Biblical. All we know is that she was a virgin prior to the conception of Jesus Christ. Jesus is not the Father, something Jesus himself makes clear.
LDS doctrine doesn't rely on the Bible alone. Here's all we have in the Bible about the conception of Jesus:
Luke 1:31-1:38
31And now, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his ancestor David. 33He will reign over the house of Jacob for ever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.’ 34Mary said to the angel, ‘How can this be, since I am a virgin [I do not know a man]?’* 35The angel said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born* will be holy; he will be called Son of God. 36And now, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month for her who was said to be barren. 37For nothing will be impossible with God.’ 38Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ Then the angel departed from her.
As to method we don't know any more. We do know that Mary did not have sex with her husband until after Jesus was born.
Matthew 1:25 (New International Version)
25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
That's all we know from the Bible. LDS doctrine teaches differently given additional revelation. Believe as you like, but using the Bible alone you cannot surmise beyond what we have as to method of conception for Jesus. All we know is that she was a virgin prior to conceiving Jesus Christ. She couldn't physically remain one after his birth. Joseph consummates the marriage, no mention is made of her continuing virginity and Jesus has siblings.
No one can believe in just any old being they happen to label as Jesus and expect that that's good enough. Only the virgin born Jesus, who is God Himself, sinless, died, buried and was resurrected, the Jesus of the New Testament, is capable of saving anyone. False Jesus's can't save anyone.
True and I presume you mean Mary started as a virgin as she certainly couldn't be one after Christ's birth.
That said, one doesn't have to believe in the Trinity to be saved. That's a Biblical fact.
Israel, Israel, God is Calling - Mormon Tabernacle Choir
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=769pUFbzAio
Thank you Restornu for helping to clarify that.
I don’t follow these threads. They’re not fruitful and little Biblical knowledge is exchanged, just a lot of acrimony and opinion. I went to the beginning to see what it was about. Vendome’s comment summed it up nicely - Poppycock.
Which is what it remains.
Christians would be better served following the Founder’s examples and retain Christian decorum by simple respect for conscience.
The LDS are Christians per the Bible.
I have no interest in belittling or making lite of another’s faith for I hold dear it means something to them,
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and yet you are all for dead dunking others out of their “faith” of Judaism or Christianity and into your own religion of mormonism...
in fact you even give money so that the evil and arrogant insult can continue..
So much for “free agency”
simple respect for conscience.
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Yeah I notice how much of that the mormons had for my Christian ancestors...
The mormons ignored the conscience of my ancestors and dead dunked them into mormonism, a religion that they would have adhored...
Ny ancestors were Bible believing 10 commandment obeying Christians in monogamous Christian marriages...
Not Bible hating, 10 Commandments breaking mormons in adulterous polygamous relationships...
clipping wings” could be avoided if we just allow mormons to proselytize and pontificate to their heart’s content without rebutting the fallacies of Joseph Smith’s Book of Fiction....right, resty?
LDS doctrine doesn’t rely on the Bible alone
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But the LORD Jesus Christ who is God does...
The Bible is the only Word of God...
Nana sings “Jesus Loves me”
what do you sing ???
I have no interest in belittling or making lite of another’s faith for I hold dear it means something to them,
________________________________________________
and yet you are all for dead dunking others out of their “faith” of Judaism or Christianity and into your own religion of mormonism...
in fact you even give money so that the evil and arrogant insult can continue..
So much for “free agency”
****
Somehow TN whenever you tell a story it is always embellished.
doing baptism for the dead is a vicarious gift just like when the Lord Jesus Christ died for all of us it was a vicarious gift to accept the covenant or move on.
If one does not act on their gift it lies dormant unless someone on the other side chooses to receives it.
(called exercising free agency)
Lurkers please make note this same accusation about the LDS baptism for the dead will repeated again in the near future.
LOL You have no clue what your ancestors choose to do or what has been taught them by the Lord’s servants!:)
doing baptism for the dead is a vicarious gift
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Oh its vicious all right...
All my ancestors said “No thanks, we prefer to follow the LORD Jesus Christ and died as Christians”
But they had no choice ....
the mormons forced the evil of mormonism on them when they were down and unable to fight back...
So much for “free agency”...
Okay, well riddle me this:
Are Christians, Christians or are they inferior Christians as opposed being Mormon?
Our Saviors Love: Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=GZW3sj2TKsw&feature=related
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