Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...
It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).
LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:
"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).
LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:
"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:
"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).
LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)
LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:
"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:
"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)
LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:
"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:
"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).
As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:
"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]
Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:
"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]
LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:
"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).
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What the Bible Says About God
1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.
"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12
"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6
"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25
The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.
2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.
"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4
"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9
"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17
"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5
"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142
The LDS god achieved holiness.
3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.
"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28
"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5
The LDS god had to learn everything.
4. ALL POWERFUL
"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6
"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20
The LDS god attained his power.
5. OMNIPRESENT
"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1
"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24
The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.
6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION
"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24
"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6
"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6
The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.
7. NO OTHER GODS
"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11
"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8
"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9
"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8
The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.
For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:
Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science
I am amazed that it seems no one wants to honor principles no matter how much we disagree this should be a priority in our character.
How are we going to honor the Constitution if maligning is still the norm?
One should be able to speak the truth without their words being turn.
I have no malice towards anyone and I am puzzled what is wrong with doing the right things?
We are not supposed to be the enemy, so we each see things differently yet I try to adhere to the core principles given by God.
Did not the Lord said; As I have Love You Love One Another!
Of course they been a disappointment as well as you are a disappointment as well as in your bigotry!
Bigotry = anything that varies from the teachings of the cult of mormonism.
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I am amazed that it seems no one wants to honor principles no matter how much we disagree this should be a priority in our character. How are we going to honor the Constitution if maligning is still the norm? One should be able to speak the truth without their words being turn. I have no malice towards anyone and I am puzzled what is wrong with doing the right things? We are not supposed to be the enemy, so we each see things differently yet I try to adhere to the core principles given by God. Did not the Lord said; As I have Love You Love One Another! |
I agree Jim and if you read in my replies I state that!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2622457/posts?page=689#689
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2622457/replies?c=707
Hip. O. Crit
Suck. Up.
Seriously. I’m done with her. It’s been fun but she’s gone too far and way too long.
Flagrant hypocrisy placemarker. Hope she’s gone when I get back.
Keep digging.
I never claim to be perfect have I ever tried to turn another’s word or play games.
I would hope not!
Have I not been for years asking why folks who claim to love the Lord have a hard time letting those of other faiths live according to the dictates of their own conscience.
People can offer or share but the other person also has the right to accept or move on.
Should we not look for the good in each other and let God sort out His business.
Is not the most important thing to get along is to strive to live the Ten Commandments.
I do not know who the Utah Lighthouse Ministries is, but they are very poor scriptorians.
The verses they’ve chosen to refute LDS theology are very weak and the translations are poor and in many cases wrong, but also out of context which ruins the message.
What you are witnesses is eisegesis, when someone approaches the Bible with preconceived notions and then “finds” support for said notion within the Holy Scriptures.
The LDS fit the definition of Christian and needn’t worry about the opinions of men. Faith and works go together and followers of Christ use both.
Restornu pinged me here. I don’t find much light or knowledge here, just a lot of silly heat. I just read your response - poppycock is accurate.
GIGO fits as well.
Turning my words again there are times some will sub for the Real RM and of course you are aware of that you just mention it in a precious post!
nice try!
The article had specific viewpoints and you chose to ignore them in toto.
I would say that is pretty weak.
Are the Prophets weak?
Are the Apostles weak?
You and the rest of the proxies never refute any specific point and only make generalizations, if that.
You bring in non sequitors, strawmen and evade.
In fact, these threads seem to make you SO dissatisfied with everyone and everything...don't you think you should just post caucus threads and stay completely away from the open threads? There is nothing you can say that can change the facts that we post about mormonism anyway.
You remind me of the little girl who kept poking the pencil into her eye...Mom asked her why, and she replied, "because it feels so good when I stop!"
You need to lay the pencil down now and find threads that go easy on your feelings. Your continual hostility just makes your case for mormonism that much less believable and as Jonesie22 says, "you are our best player".
Have I not been for years asking why folks who claim to love the Lord have a hard time letting those of other faiths live according to the dictates of their own conscience.
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So you get up on a stage in the middle of DC and hug and hold hands with Moslems and call them your brothers on TV in front of millilons of viewers like your friend Glenn Beck did ???
I wouldnt myself...
But would you ???
The concience of the Moslem is to kill me because I confess the LORD Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior...
Do you agree with that occurance...
Just what do you believe ???
The mormon doctrine that claims all Christians like me are the “whore of Babylon” ???
That the lying pediphile, thief, murderer adulterer Joey Smith was right and the LORD Jesus christ was wrong ???
You cant sit on the fence Resty...
It is one or the other...
Both views are not correct...
And a hint to your mormon mindset...
Joey Smith himself claimed that the Christian Bible was not translated correctly nor was it correct...
Joey himself felt the Bible which is the only Word of God needed him to tweek it...
So heres probably your last chance to tell me...
What do YOU believe ???
FRiend, I think you are confusing me with someone else.
I don’t think the LDS view of God contradicts the Bible at all. I find the attacks from the anti-LDS element weak and poorly supported Biblically.
No good believing Christian or Old Testament following Jew using the Bible would pretend to know what happened to God. Truly no real Bible scholar can postulate anything prior to Genesis 1:1. That is all they have to go on, no?
That said, one must recognize the existential threat LDS doctrine poses to popular Christianity. There can be no reconciliation of doctrine. If Catholics and Orthodox cannot reconcile given the nearness of their doctrines, you can imagine just how hard it would be for Trinitarian Christians to reconcile themselves to non-Trinitarian Chrisitans.
The postulate of the Utah Lighthouse Ministries is patently wrong. It is simple opinion posing as fact. I wouldn’t worry about their opinion if I were you.
Believing in the Trinity isn’t a doctrine of salvation. It can be ignored. It’s not Biblical, but an invention of sophists posing as Godly men.
So heres probably your last chance to tell me...
What do YOU believe ???
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I believe Jesus knows best!
1 Jn. 4: 7, 11-12
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
• • •
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
John 13: 34-35
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 15: 12, 17
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
• • •
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
1 Jn. 3: 11, 23
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
• • •
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
Rom. 13: 8
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Gal. 5: 13
13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Eph. 4: 2
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
1 Thes. 3: 12
12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
1 Thes. 4: 9
9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
Heb. 10: 24
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
1 Pet. 1: 22
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1 Pet. 3: 8
8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
2 Jn. 1: 5
5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
Mosiah 4: 15
15 But ye will teach them to walk in the ways of truth and soberness; ye will teach them to love one another, and to serve one another.
Mosiah 18: 21
21 And he commanded them that there should be no contention one with another, but that they should look forward with one eye, having one faith and one baptism, having their hearts knit together in unity and in love one towards another.
Moro. 9: 5
5 For so exceedingly do they anger that it seemeth me that they have no fear of death; and they have lost their love, one towards another; and they thirst after blood and revenge continually.
D&C 88: 123
123 See that ye love one another; cease to be covetous; learn to impart one to another as the gospel requires.
People can offer or share but the other person also has the right to accept or move on.
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There was a whole wagon train once that wished the mormons believed that back in 1857...
Hint: the wagon train didnt get to “move on”
I believe Jesus knows best!
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Unless He is over rided by the better “best of” knowledge of Joey Smith...
Which is to a mormon, every time...
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