Posted on 11/02/2010 7:45:16 AM PDT by Salvation
I have blogged before on Purgatory. For example here: Purgatory Biblical and Reasonable. I have also provided a PDF document on the Biblical roots of the teaching here: PDF Document on Purgatory .
On this Feast of All Souls I want to reflect on Purgatory as the necessary result of a promise. Many people think of purgatory primarily in terms of punishment, but it is also important to think of it in terms of promise, purity and perfection. Some of our deceased brethren are having the promises to them perfected in purgatory. In the month of November we are especially committed to praying for them and know by faith that our prayers are of benefit to them.
What is the Promise which points to Purgatory? Simply stated, Jesus Made the promise in Matt 5:48: You, Therefore, must be perfect as you Heavenly Father is perfect. Now in this promise is an astonishing declaration of our dignity. We are to share in the very nature and perfection of God. This is our dignity: that we are called to reflect and possess the very glory and perfection of God.
St. Catherine of Siena was gifted by the Lord to see a heavenly soul in the state of grace and her account of it is related in her Dialogue. It is here summarized In the Sunday School Teachers Explanation of the Baltimore Catechism:
The Soul in the State of Grace- Catherine of Siena was permitted by God to see the beauty of a soul in the state of grace. It was so beautiful that she could not look on it; the brightness of that soul dazzled her. Blessed Raymond, her confessor, asked her to describe to him, as far as she was able, the beauty of the soul she had seen. St. Catherine thought of the sweet light of that morning, and of the beautiful colours of the rainbow, but that soul was far more beautiful. She remembered the dazzling beams of the noonday sun, but the light which beamed from that soul was far brighter. She thought of the pure whiteness of the lily and of the fresh snow, but that is only an earthly whiteness. The soul she had seen was bright with the whiteness of Heaven, such as there is not to be found on earth. My father, she answered. I cannot find anything in this world that can give you the smallest idea of what I have seen. Oh, if you could but see the beauty of a soul in the state of grace, you would sacrifice your life a thousand times for its salvation. I asked the angel who was with me what had made that soul so beautiful, and he answered me, It is the image and likeness of God in that soul, and the Divine Grace which made it so beautiful. [1].
Yes, this is our dignity and final destiny if we are faithful to God.
So, I ask you, Are you there yet? God has made you a promise. But what if it is not yet fulfilled and you were to die today without the divine perfection you are promised yet completed? I can only say for myself that, if I were to die today, as far as I know I am not aware of mortal sin. But I am also aware of not being perfect. I am not even close to being humanly perfect, let alone having the perfection of the heavenly Father!
But Jesus made me a promise: You must be perfect as the heavenly Father is perfect. And the last time I checked, Jesus is a promise keeper!. St. Paul says, May God who has begun a good work in you bring it to completion. (Phil 1:6). Hence, If I were to die today, Jesus would need to complete a work that he has begun in me. By Gods grace, I have come a mighty long way. But I have a long way to go. God is very holy and his perfection is beyond imagining.
Yes, there are many things in us that need purging. Sins, and attachments to sin. Worldly clingings, and those rough edges to our personality. Likewise most of us carry with us hurts, regrets, sorrows and disappointments. We cannot take any of this to heaven with us. It wouldnt be heaven. So the Lord, who is faithful to his promise, will purge all of this from us. The Book of Revelation speaks of Jesus ministering to the dead in that he will wipe every tear from their eyes (Rev 21:4). 1 Corithians 3:13-15 speaks of us as passing through fire in order that our works be tested and that what is good may be purified and what is worldly may be burned away. Job said, But he knows the way that I take; and when he has tested me, I will come forth as pure gold (Job 23:10).
Purgatory has to be Yes, gold, pure gold, refined, perfect and pure gold. Purgatory has to be if Gods promises are to hold. The Protestants have no place for Purgatory because they interpret our perfection merely to be a legally declared perfection. Classical Protestantism speaks of an imputed righteousness. Imputed righteousness is a righteous that is merely said of us but is not actually so. Luther thought of us as a dung hill, completely depraved, and God covered us with his righteousness like snow on the surface, but we were still dung underneath. For Luther we merely have declared of us a justitia aliena (an alien justice). But Catholic Theology has always taken God seriously on his promise that we would actually be perfect as the Father is perfect. The righteousness is Jesus righteousness, but it actually transforms us and changes us completely in the way that St. Catherine describes above. It is a real righteousness, not merely imputed, not merely declared of us by inference. It is not an alien justice, but a personal justice, by the grace of God.
Esse quam videri Purgatory makes sense because perfection promised us is real: Esse quam videri (To be rather than to seem). We must actually be purged of the last vestiges of imperfection, worldliness, sin and sorrows. And, having been made perfect by the grace of God, we are able to enter heaven of which Scripture says, Nothing impure will ever enter it (Rev 21:27). And again, you have approached Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and countless angels in festal gathering, and the assembly of the firstborn enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all, and the souls of the just made perfect (Heb 12:22-23).
How could it be anything less? Indeed, the souls of the just made perfect. How could it be anything less if Jesus died to accomplish it for us? Purgatory makes sense based on the promise of Jesus and the power of his blood to accomplished complete and total perfection for us. This is our dignity, this is our destiny. Purgatory is about promises not mere punishments. Theres an old Gospel hymn that says, O Lord Im running, trying to make a hundred. Ninety-nine and half wont do!
Thats right, 99 1/2 wont do. Nothing less than 100 is possible since we have the promise of Jesus and the wonder working power of the precious blood of the Lamb. For most, if not all of us, purgatory has to be.
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
-- Isaiah 53:5
bookmarking this excellent thread!
Great posts...thank you so much.
The body of Christ was placed in the tomb for three days during which his spirit, according to the Nicene Creed, descended into Hell. Likely he also ascended into heaven. His spirit could have accompanied the thief on the cross to his entrance in heaven. Yet, Who knows? Maybe his Father demanded he spend three days in purgatory. Anything is possible, especially if you are a Catholic.
Sorry, friend, but no.
Hebrews 10:10 means what it means. Christ’s sacrifice was once for all. He offered “one sacrifice for sins forever” (Hebrews 10:12) so there is no need for a purgatory.
If Christ paid the price in full, there is no need for purgatory. If He didn’t, he’s not perfect and therefore not the Son of God. Your choice.
But bless your day anyway.
Was that your white Ford Bronco I saw parked at the golf course?
My white _________ just returned from church where I lead a Bible Study on Genesis this morning.
And you?
Are you speaking for yourself or the Religion Moderator?
It is interesting to know that Luther did believe in purgatory, though he was not able to find any support from Scripture. He therefore argued that purgatory should not be considered as Churchs dogma, i.e. those who do not believe in it are not heretics. Below is what he wrote on purgatory (emphasis in bold is mine):
The existence of a purgatory I have never denied. I still hold that it exists, as I have written and admitted [Unterricht auf etlich Artikel. WA 2, 70] many times, though I have found no way of proving it incontrovertibly from Scripture or reason. I find in Scripture that Christ, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Job, David, Hezekiah, and some others tasted hell in this life. This I think was purgatory, and it seems not beyond belief that some of the dead suffer in like manner. Tauler [c. 1300 to 1361, Dominican monk who, under the influence of his teacher Meister Eckhart, taught at Strassburg a deeply mystical piety] has much to say about it, and, in short, I myself have come to the conclusion that there is a purgatory, but I cannot force anybody else to come to the same result.
There is only one thing that I have criticized, namely, the way in which my opponents refer to purgatory passages in Scripture which are so inapplicable that it is shameful. For example, they apply Ps. 66[:12], We went through fire and through water, though the whole psalm sings of the sufferings of the saints, whom no one places in purgatory. And they quote St. Paul in I Cor. 3[:13-15] when he says of the fire of the last day that it will test the good works, and by it some will be saved because they keep the faith, though their work may suffer loss. They turn this fire also into a purgatory, according to their custom of twisting Scripture and making it mean whatever they want.
And similarly they have arbitrarily dragged in the passage in Matt. 12[:32] in which Christ says, Whoever speaks blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come. Christ means here that he shall never be forgiven, as Mark 3[:29] explains, saying, Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin. To be sure, even St. Gregory [Gregory the Great, Dialogorum Libri, IV, chap. 89. Migne 77, 396] interprets the passage in Matthew 12 to mean that some sins will be forgiven in the world to come, but St. Mark does not permit such an interpretation, and he counts for more than all the doctors.
I have discussed all this in order to show that no one is bound to believe more than what is based on Scripture, and those who do not believe in purgatory are not to be called heretics, if otherwise they accept Scripture in its entirety, as the Greek church does. The gospel compels me to believe that St. Peter and St. James are saints, but at the same time it is not necessary to believe that St. Peter is buried in Home [Rome] and St. James at Compostella [Santiago de Compostella, a famous place of pilgrimage in Spain] and that their bodies are still there, for Scripture does not report it. Again, there is no sin in holding that none of the saints whom the pope canonizes are saints, and no saint will be offended, for, as a matter of fact, there are many saints in heaven of whom we know nothing, and certainly not that they are saints, yet they are not offended, and do not consider us heretics because we do not know of them. The pope and his partisans play this game only in order to fabricate many wild articles of faith and thus make it possible to silence and suppress the true articles of the Scripture.
But their use of the passage in II Macc. 12[:43], which tells how Judas Maceabeus sent money to Jerusalem for prayers to be offered for those who fell in battle, proves nothing, for that book is not among the books of Holy Scripture, and, as St. Jerome says, it is not found in a Hebrew version, the language in which all the books of the Old Testament are written. [Jerome, Preface to the Books of Samuel and Malachi. Migne 28, 600ff] In other respects, too, this book deserves little authority, for it contradicts the first Book of Maccabees in its description of King Antiochus, and contains many other fables which destroy its credibility. But even were the book authoritative, it would still be necessary in the case of so important an article that at least one passage out of the chief books [of the Bible] should support it, in order that every word might be established through the mouth of two or three witnesses. It must give rise to suspicion that in order to substantiate this doctrine no more than one passage could be discovered in the entire Bible; moreover this passage is in the least important and most despised book. Especially since so much depends on this doctrine which is so important that, indeed, the papacy and the whole hierarchy are all but built upon it, and derive all their wealth and honor from it. Surely, the majority of the priests would starve to death if there were no purgatory. Well, they should not offer such vague and feeble grounds for our faith!
Career of the Reformer II, Luthers Works, Vol. 32
Nothing about dung, snow, or aliens? I would have thought you would offer a link from a Lutheran i.e. not Catholic, not blog) source, one that cites the exact quote that you offered up in a Caucus thread:
Luther thought of us as a dung hill, completely depraved, and God covered us with his righteousness like snow on the surface, but we were still dung underneath. For Luther we merely have declared of us a justitia aliena (an alien justice).
It appears that I am more interested in the facts — what Luther actually said and believed. And it appears that you are more interested in the statement of the author about what Luther would have called Catholics.
Do you think that might be a little hyperbole on the part of the author. I could not find the exact quote, but will look for the justice one.
It appears that I am more interested in the facts — what Luther actually said and believed. And it appears that you are more interested in the statement of the author about what Luther would have called Catholics.
Do you think that might be a little hyperbole on the part of the author. I could not find the exact quote, but will look for the justice one.
If you want to read a book try this
http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R1GUJVY5Z2I58K
It appears that I am more interested in the facts — what Luther actually said and believed. And it appears that you are more interested in the statement of the author about what Luther would have called Catholics.
Do you think that might be a little hyperbole on the part of the author. I could not find the exact quote, but will look for the justice one.
If you want to read a book try this
http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R1GUJVY5Z2I58K
The complete search is here:
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7kTZi9BMZXcBOz.l87UF;_ylc=X1MDMjE0MjQ3ODk0OARfcgMyBGZyA3NmcARuX2dwcwMxMARvcmlnaW4Dc3ljBHF1ZXJ5A21hcnRpbiBsdXRoZXIganVzdGl0aWEgYWxpZW5hIARzYW8DMQ—?p=martin+luther+justitia+aliena+&fr=sfp&fr2=&iscqry=
"Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment."
-- John 7:24
Another great post.
Another reason to consider Purgatory is because of Christian backsliders. One may accept Christ as Lord and Savior and then fall back into terrible sinfulness. If one died without repenting of that sinfulness, one logically could not go straight to Heaven, a place of spiritual perfection.
A believer who was in the state of sin could be offered the opportunity to suffer in atonement for a while in order to expiate the imperfection and guilt and then, having paid the last penny, enter Heaven to experience union with God.
It is simple logic that God cannot be joined to anything sinful. I think Purgatory is a very beautiful belief: even after death God is thirsting for our love and willing to give us that last avenue so we can be with Him.
And Catholics have similar opinions of non-Catholics.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2618333/posts?page=381#381
Your point is?
Of course you could because any who are redeemed have a new nature within them, which is what makes it to heaven. it's not the old nature purified. It's a new one that is righteous by faith.
The old one has been crucified with Christ and it is dead spiritually, so when we die physically, it's gone for good.
The reason that we still have problems with sin is because we still have habits and thought patterns which we still carry around in these physical corrupted bodies of ours.
It may be a "beautiful belief" the question is...is it true?
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