Church rejects Mormon couple as Cub leaders

NewJersey.com ^ | Thursday, October 21, 2010

[Gamecock]

CHARLOTTE, N.C. — In shopping around for a Cub Scout program for their two sons, ages 6 and 8, Jeremy and Jodi Stokes decided on the one at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews, N.C.

The Stokeses, also of Matthews, weren't members of the evangelical megachurch, but they had many friends who were. And unlike the Cub Scout pack at their own church, which doesn't have a program for 6-year-old Tiger Scouts, Christ Covenant's was big enough to accommodate both of their boys.

The couple even signed up to be Scout leaders when they discovered the church needed adult help. And when the Scouting officials at Christ Covenant found out Jeremy Stokes was an Eagle Scout, they were thrilled.

So why did Christ Covenant reject the Stokeses' application to be Scout leaders?

Because they're Mormons. And, therefore, not real Christians, church officials told the couple.

"I can't believe they had the audacity to say, 'You can't be leaders, but we want your boys,' " Jodi Stokes said. "Are you kidding me?"

The Rev. Gabe Sylvia, Christ Covenant's staff liaison to the Scouting program, confirmed the Stokeses' account. He called them to apologize but defends the church's decision.

"When it became clear that they were Mormons, they could not become leaders in our pack. Mormonism is not consistent with historical Christianity," he said.

That view — that Mormons, whose church is formally titled the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, are not Christians — is shared by other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches, as well.

"It was so offensive," said Jodi Stokes, who was raised Catholic, then became a Mormon. "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room."

Members of the Salt Lake City-based church believe salvation is possible because of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But significant theological differences separate Mormons from most Christian churches.

The LDS church treats as holy scripture the Book of Mormon, which isn't recognized by other churches, but which it believes was divinely revealed to Joseph Smith in the 1820s.

Mormons also disavow belief in the core Christian doctrine of the Trinity — that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one — instead believing the three to be individuals united in a single purpose.

Mormons believe the original Christian church vanished 100 years after Jesus' death and resurrection. The authentic church, they believe, was restored by Smith.

[Gamecock]

who stink up this place with their nasty, mean-spirited, obsessive diatribes.

Pot
Kettle
Black

[My hearts in London - Everett]

When has lack of evidence ever been a problem for some people? ;~) Usually it’s Libs, but I believe it applies to LDS also.

[ejonesie22]

Figures you would like PD’s post, you guys share a passion for unfounded accusation and hyperbole...

At some point I remember you mentioned being link in some fashion to the Christan faith. One day it may come back to you that Christians are allowed and indeed tasked by Christ and the Apostles themselves to defend the faith and expose false teachers and those who are taking advantage of the weak in faith. This is a separate function than evangelizing and spreading the word. Read the book of Jude among others for guidance.

If you want to chose the Evil Ones side, do it wittingly at least. That way the light my finally shine on your confusion.

[ejonesie22]

Universal constant.

[My hearts in London - Everett]

You know, I’ve read a number of threads that were religion related in my time here, and I don’t remember ever seeing any Christian FReepers who have been “nasty” or “mean-spirited”. Obsessive? Yes. We are commanded to be obsessive for Christ. The only people who would see us as mean would be those who don’t like or agree with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Some thought Jesus was “mean” in His day also. I’ll be glad to be found guilty along with Jesus on that one. Truth a lot of times can seem mean.

[streetpreacher]

I wonder how many Mormon “churches” allow non-Mormons to be scout leaders?

Not that has any bearing on the issue... Christians would still be called NOT to accommodate false teachers.

[antceecee]

I guess the answer is to start your own troop sponsored by your own church. What’s so hard to understand about that? Freedom to affiliate with those of like mind and belief is as American as apple pie.

[restornu]

drstevej; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; Wrigley; Jean Chauvin

You do know 5 of those names are no longer here unless under new ID.....

[Paragon Defender]

Figures you would like PD’s post, you guys share a passion for unfounded accusation and hyperbole...

---

Oh
My
Gosh

Pot meet kettle... kettle... pot
but add in misrepresentation and straw man. Oh and non-issue flag waving.

If you want to chose the Evil Ones side, don’t try to pretend you are doing anything noble and good. I am not even sure the Mormon attack squad is well intentioned. The evidence leads me to say.... no.

[ejonesie22]

Spiritual warfare is not always a pleasant business. The Devil's soldiers are crooked and don't fight fair to begin with so the deck is a little stacked. Deprogramming cult members can be a harsh undertaking for the blinders run deep.

But what I find most interesting is those who should know better complaining about that one aspect of things.

We are indeed commanded to fight for Christ. But like judging the nature of America simply on one combat unit fighting a brutal fight in the Pacific Island in WWII it is a very incomplete picture of both Christianity and the Christian in the fight. You don't see that these soldiers on these islands have families, a job or farm or other life, that they fight for something honorable or glorious, fight for what is right and good and true. You just see dirty rough men slugging it out with other dirty rough men who one would see as a brutal evil and corrupt enemy if the same long term view was applied to the their side as well.

[ejonesie22]

Um, yeah...

Show me where I have misreprested something.

Your links can’t get you out of this one.

You accuse me, so put up or shutup.

[Paragon Defender]

Um, yeah...

Show me where I have misreprested something.

Your links can’t get you out of this one.

You accuse me, so put up or shutup.

-------------------------

lol when Haven't your little club misrepresented etc?

It's easy to see. Anyone can look at any of the basher threads and look it up at the links provided.

SO, I have put up. Not that I really care what any of your not so merry band thinks about it. Thump your chest elsewhere junior.

[ejonesie22]

This isn't about anyone but you and me. You accused ME of misrepresentation so man up or slink away.

Your stupid little “because I said so” and haystack of LDS bilge doesn't cut it Slick.

[AnalogReigns]

I very sincerely doubt any Mormon church would allow an evangelical Presbyterian, or any other Christian, to be a scout leader from their church.

(I live about 1/4 mile from Christ Covenant Church, and it is an outstanding evangelical Church in every respect...)

[AnalogReigns]

OK then. Presbyterians voted to allow gay clergy, but booted the Mormon cub leaders.

Christ Covenant Church is not, and has never been, a part of the mainline Presbyterian Church, USA (PCUSA) which ordains homosexuals.

It is a part of the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) denomination which is very conservative and evangelical. The PCA denomination was formed in the 1970s when the mainline Presbyterians were beginning depart from the authority of scripture.

Please note also, I'm quite certain that a Mormon Church would never allow a non-Mormon to be an adult scout leader in (the many) troops which they sponsor...

[AnalogReigns]

One of the principle arguments against Christianity is how a perfect writing, the Bible, is used to create so many cults. It it were perfect and defined, only one religion would spring from its pages.

That's just a silly argument on its face. EVERY religion has split into various groups UNLESS it had a political entity (or entities) forcing people not to dissent.

Let's apply your logic to another document...the US Constitution. "If it were perfect and defined only one religion [interpretation] would spring up from its pages." Why then, if the Constitution were valid, EVERYONE would agree on what it says, and golly, we could do away with courts and judges, as how to interpret and enforce the law would be equally clear to everyone, right? Of course NOT, that's a silly assertion.In a free society, people will interpret and believe all kinds of different things using the same documentary source. Of course it doesn't make them all equally VALID, it just shows that freedom allows for people to think what they want.

The same applies to the bible--religious freedom allows for religious dissent and religious differences--which is probably why something like 90% of the world's Christian denominations/sects/cults STARTED in the USA, as we traditionally have led the world in religious freedom.

[CharlesWayneCT]

It can also mean “carved into”, as in “engraved”, which would be a way to make an image in those days.

Personally I take it in the “sculptured” meaning, although many sermons from various faiths like to suggest that a graven image can be anything that you put on a pedestal or “worship” in place of God. Money is sometimes suggested as such a “graven image”.

I don’t buy the idea that an actor playing Christ is actually replicating or being an image in place of Christ, so it doesn’t bother me personally. But that’s what my church teaches.

[Elsie]

 

 One day it may come back to you that Christians are allowed and indeed tasked by Christ and the Apostles themselves to defend the faith and expose false teachers and those who are taking advantage of the weak in faith.

---

---

 

Acts 2:42
  They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

 

 

 Acts 4:2
 They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.

 

 

Acts 5:42
  Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.

 

 

Acts 13:1

  In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.

 

 

 Acts 13:12
   When the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, for he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.

 

 

Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

 

 

Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

 

 

Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 

Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

 

1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

 

Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

 

 

1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.

 

 

1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

 

2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

 

 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

 

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

 

 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

 

 

Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

 

 

Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

 

 

Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

 

 

 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

 

 

 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

 

 

2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

Acts 2:42
  They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

 

 

 Acts 4:2
 They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.

 

 

Acts 5:42
  Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.

 

 

Acts 13:1

  In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.

 

 

 Acts 13:12
   When the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, for he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.

 

 

Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

 

 

Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

 

 

Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 

Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

 

1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

 

Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

 

 

1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.

 

 

1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

 

2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

 

 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

 

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

 

 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

 

 

Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

 

 

Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

 

 

Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

 

 

 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

 

 

 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

 

 

2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

[Elsie]

If you want to chose the Evil Ones side, don’t try to pretend you are doing anything noble and good. I am not even sure the Mormon attack squad is well intentioned. The evidence leads me to say.... no.

Golly!

How much time should we waste addressing these scurrilous charges???

Let me think...

...

...

...

...

Oh yeah...

ZERO!

It's OFFENSE that puts points on the scoreboard; not DEFENSE.

[Elsie]

The evidence leads me to say.... no.

Golly!

I guess that NOW you are actually going to SHOW some EVIDENCE???