Posted on 10/14/2010 5:47:30 AM PDT by Colofornian
Ghosts — They are highly popular entertainment fare in the world these days, given shows like "Ghost Hunters," "Ghost Whisperer," "Ghost Story," "Celebrity Ghost Story" and "Paranormal State..." as well as various movies over the years.
Trying to find or contact "ghosts" is the core of all these programs.
Forget Halloween season. This flurry of new ghost programming is popular year-round and seems to be at an all-time high.
SNIP
Lutherans
"...the Scriptures...mean...realms in which spiritual powers and beings exist (e.g., Eph. 6:12; Col. 1:16). However, our church...has not speculated on such questions...in what form "spirits" or "ghosts" may manifest themselves...biblical warnings concerning occultic activities (e.g., Deut. 18:9-14)..."
SNIP
Mormons
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has no firm doctrine on ghosts.
However Elder Bruce R. McConkie in "Mormon Doctrine" speculated:
"It is true that some mediums do make contact with spirits during séances. In most instances, however, such spirits as manifest themselves are probably the demons or devils who were cast out of heaven for rebellion. … Righteous spirits have nothing but contempt and pity for the attempts of mediums to make contact with them" (Page 759).
According to lds.org: "In a funeral sermon, the Prophet Joseph Smith declared that the spirits of righteous people who have died 'are not far from us...' (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 326).
"Other latter-day prophets have made similar statements. President Ezra Taft Benson said: 'Sometimes the veil between this life and the life beyond becomes very thin. Our loved ones who have passed on are not far from us' (in Conference Report, Apr. 1971, p. 18; or Ensign, June 1971, p. 33). President Brigham Young said: 'Where is the spirit world? It is right here' (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 376)," the LDS Church's official Web site states.
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
Good...I hope I didn't come across as snitty or trifling :-) I just thought it was a profound observation of Lewis's that most people think of God as a "supernatural" being, and yet He is the very definition and source of all that is "natural" ;-)
My uncle back in the late 90’s was admitted into the U of Arizona and on his freshman year, no dorms were allocated for him so he had to find an apt. along w 3 other freshmen that’s close to the University.
Found an “extremely” cheap but spartan house and they excitedly moved in, probably feed off pizzas and macaroni/cheese for awhile. On the VERY 1st night while watching the Knicks vs Heat, one of them said “dude, pass the remote this is going to be an awesome ending..”
The remote suddenly flew from the table to the other room.
They all looked in shock, then each other, hairs stood up behind their necks, and just walked out the house.
Not in the least, I actually find it refreshing to find someone who takes so great care with their words, as most people are extremely careless with them now.
After all, while I do not subscribe to the idea of “words of power”, so to speak, I do understand that there is a certain amount of power in the words we do speak. This is not due to some mystical power that the words themselves hold, but because of the fact that, as Christians, we have the power, through our faith in Christ, to bind or loose things in realms beyond our present understanding. That is not to say “supernatural”, as I agree with you that most of what is “supernatural” is actually just on a different plane of existance, it just means we don’t fully understand it yet. We are, literally seeing “...through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”
There is much, much more to this world than what we see presently.
Well if you also go to this thread, They see dead people?, you can see other Mormon claims about seeing dead people -- enough to the extent that according to the article:
Prior to the dedication of the San Diego temple in 1993, local Mormon families were given a packet entitled Family Temple Preparation Material. Included in this written material were about seven pages devoted to "true stories" of temple patrons who were visited by the dead. Fourth Mormon Prophet Wilford Woodruff told followers in 1887, "The dead will be after you, they will seek after you as they have after us in St. George (Journal of Discourses 19:229). Woodruff is referring to the St. George temple in southern Utah. He also stated, “I will here say that two weeks before I left St. George, the spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, "You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we never apostatized from it, but we remained true to it and were faithful to God. These were the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and they waited on me for two days and two nights” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, p.160).
Mormons now include this Woodruff account in their Sunday School lessons (Lesson is from their "Doctrine and Covenants and Church History," "The Hearts of the Children Shall Turn to Their Fathers..." p. 3 references the Woodruff St. George temple spirits' account).
Take it up with the DesNews!
Correct. Mormons include dead men in their angel scheme.
And Moroni was a ghost who Joseph Smith said appeared to him several times.
So the Mormon religion is rooted in the hauntings of a "ghost." And that's indeed who sits atop their temples. Not the cross. But a ghost.
About that time, my son spoke of a lady he had seen at our old house in a blue dress. I went to my room to pull the photo album to find a picture of my dad's first wife. As I was going through my bookshelf there was a loud hissing sound. On the other side of my room, under some stuff no one had been near, the Lysol can had gone off. It kept going until it was empty. The nozzle looked like someone had twisted it, so it would stay in the down position.
We have had many strange things happen, but most of the time we react with, "That was interesting...Wait a minute. That's not supposed to happen."
Well....I do know that Mormonism teaches both the Holy Spirit AND the Holy Ghost as two separate forces
****
Care to share....
Resty, who spoke to you when you first learned the Book of Mormon is true?
“One man’s magic is another man’s engineering.” ~Isaac Asimov
Resty, who spoke to you when you first learned the Book of Mormon is true?
***
CC I asked you to share it was a question!
I’m trying to exhibit which is better than sharing.
Now resty, How did you know the Book of Mormon is true?
Okay, I guess you don’t want to play....
....we have you on record here at FR saying that the Holy Spirit lead you to believe the Book of Mormon was true - even before you actually READ it or thought about being baptized a member of the LDS Church. The Spirit told you.
But Mormons receive the gift of the Holy Ghost only AFTER baptism, by the laying on of hands and by one holding the “proper” authority.
So when the Spirit told you the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, it could NOT have been through the “gift of the Holy Ghost,” since you had not been baptized or confirmed.
Why don’t you explain it in your own words, please, resty?
However, my dog snuck up on me in the dark on my way to the fridge for my 3am nightly snack right after we had finished watching that movie "Paranormal Activity". Needless to say I jumped a little. I thought the movie was lame overall, but the heavy footsteps scene was a little chilling, and I was thinking about it right as my furry friend put her cold nose on the back of my leg.
Even skeptics are prone to the occasional fright.
I think believing in the supernatural is something that is inherent in human beings. It may serve an evolutionary purpose, as in people who believe in ghosts might be overall more cautious.
This journalist cites Lds.org paraphrase of this comment. (Of course, neither Lds.org -- or Deseret News -- would give the actual fuller quote of Smith on this...for good PR reason). They elected to not include the beginning of Smith's sentence on that page -- p. 326 of Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. In context, Smith is talking about spirits "blessed in their departure" to "the world of spirits."
Now what kind of environment do these "spirits" depart to? Well, let's look at Smith's quote here:
"The spirits...are blessed in their departure to the world of spirits. Enveloped in flaming fire, they are not far from us, and know and understand our thoughts, feelings, and motions, and are often pained therewith." (TOPJS, p. 326)
Logo, you and I go back a long way with discussions on this forum...8 1/2 years...Joseph Smith's King Follet Sermon
'Twas on that forum -- Smith's King Follet sermon -- where this common focus of Joseph Smith toward the end of his life was represented re: looking forward to a spirit world where he and his followers would dwell in "everlasting burnings" (his words, not mine). [ALL: Clink on link above for context for Smith quotes I cite below]
I think in the place opposite of heaven, where we won't need light 'cause God will be that light, you won't need "heaters" when people and demons are burning. ...pains worse than the immediate and long-term aftermaths of horrific burns;
...sins that provoked God more than idolatry -- putting another god in in place of God, or alongside God. Even if Mormons say they don't do the former, well, there's a reason they are called "latter"-day 'ain'ts.
I would say of all the teachings that was most horrific about what Smith taught, the following, which he "broke out" late in his life...was the topper...1844:
"...you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves...going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one...from exaltation to exaltation, until you...are able to dwell... (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 346-347)
Well, "until you...are able to dwell" where?
WHERE were the "ghost-lights" -- the demon-lights of Smith telling him where he & his followers would dwell???
The answer is right there on p. 347 of Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith:
"until you...are able to dwell in everlasting burnings."
"The spirits...are blessed in their departure to the world of spirits."
"Enveloped in flaming fire, they are not far from us..."
Whoaaa.
Smith must have felt the guilt gnawing at him from no assurance of forgiveness of sins; but he wouldn't let go of his "everlasting burnings" teaching late in life: "Those who have done wrong always have that wrong gnawing them. Immortality dwells in everlasting burnings." (ToPJS, p. 367)
These spirits craving their own "immortality" as false gods wouldn't let go of Smith...
...and actually occasionally told him the truth...
...as they did about "everlasting burnings"... and "enveloped in flaming fire"
...They had the last laugh at Smith's -- and his followers' -- expense.
Make no mistake, Mormons. There's a fiery everlasting pain that accompanies outer darkness. The longevity words in the Book of Mormon used to describe heaven ("everlasting," "eternal") are also used to describe hell in the Book of Mormon. However long heaven; the BoM characters concluded "ditto" about hell.
And what did Jesus say in the book of Matthew alone?
Matthew 3:10: The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matthew 3:12: His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
Matthew 5:22: But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 7:19: Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matthew 13:40: "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
Matthew 18:8: If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matthew 18:9: And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Matthew 25:41: "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
So Jesus described it as "eternal fire"...Smith described his future destination, along with his followers, as "everlasting burnings"... AND "enveloped in flaming fire"
There was with Smith a teeny-tiny tidbit of "Truth in advertising" -- I'm sure the Divine Regulation Committee of Cultic Oversight demanded of the demons that their labeled fine print contain at least a dosage of truth.
While God´s engineering would have both here, in the tinkerer´s corner of the universe.
There ain’t no such thing as ghosts.
Don’t even get me started on the Nicodemus story.
Others have used similar terms. John the Baptist said,
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire. (Matt. 3:11).
John the Revelator wrote,
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.To speak of the righteous in heaven as standing on a "sea of glass mingled with fire" seems not too different from saying that they are "enveloped in flaming fire."2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. (Rev. 15:1-3)
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