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It is you ELISE who continue whinning about the counsel of the Lord Jesus Christ the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!!
Jesus said join none of them!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join.
No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that:
“they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time.
When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.”
I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?
AGAIN, for the thousandth time you ignore the ACTUAL question...
No one disputes that Smith was told or the Presbyterianism is untrue, that is a given. The question is WHAT is untrue about it.
That is what no one can answer, and that is very telling.
Maybe you could be the first?
It is you ELISE who continue whinning about the counsel of the Lord Jesus Christ the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!!
Jesus said join none of them!
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When did Jesus say that ???
and which Jesus ???
the mormon jesus who was created amd made or the LORD Jesus Christ of the Christian Bible who is God and therefore the Creator and begotten not made.....
If it was the LORD Jesus Christ of the Christian Bible ...
Then wheres your source ???
Wheres the quote and book/verse from the Bible ???
then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
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Yes well this was after the Smith family had been excommunicated from the Presbyterian Church in Palmyra NY in March 1830...
So it was just sour grapes on Joey Smiths part and not from any point of virtue or innocence..
Just a guilty heart speaking...
If he said it at all to his mother...
You talk ugly about the Presbyterian church that you once belonged to also...
Were you also excommunicated ???
Why did you leave the Presbyterian Church ???
What was your sin ???
Why did you apostate ???
When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.”
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Strong booze will do it to ya every time...
What was he doing when he got home that his mother objected to ???
Leaning up to the fireplace...
Was that a source of “matter” in those days ???
Or was he doing some type of drunken NONO into the fire hearth ???
We used to stand near the fireplace when we were kids but Mom never commented that there was some problem...
Maybe its time to examine the nuances of this incident...
There is either some points accidently or intentionally left out or covered up or the conversation never took place or the words were different...
Now I can see Joey Smith being angry about the excommunication however justified it was...
(he had a reputation as a violent quick tempered guy...)
and it would be natural for the Smiths to discuss the “matter”
although the Smiths would have blamed everyone else but themselves...
There does not appear to have been much soul searching or self examination amongst that family...
And Joey Smiths writings are full of his personal “virtues” and none of his failings...
(For instance cheating on your wife is a sin whatever a tomcat like Joey Smith wants to call it...polygamy, everlasting covenant, the first principal are just mormon code words for adultery..)
We know Joey Smith had a huge ego because nobody writes themselves into the Bible without some aberrant deviance of personality...
Name anyone else who ever did that ???
So did Joey Smith up chuck or worse into his mothers fireplace and she berated him ???
What did Joey Smith do when he finally dragged his drunken or dugged carcuss home from his mushroom grove ???
I dont see any apology to his Mom so qwe can rule that out...
Joey Smith was a law unto himself...
The theories of the main character in Crime and Punishment comes to mind...
Now here too was a guy who thought he was above the law, other men...
He too thought himself a superior human being with permission of the Cosmos to commit any crime and get away with it...His entitlement ran to murder and robbery..
Joey Smith also deliberately broke every one of the 10 Commandments...He was entitled..The Super Id among mere mortals..
I do not imagine however that Lucy Mack Smith sat him down and pulled his boots off and brought him his kept warm supper by the fire when he got home...Joey Smith never said she did..
Rather, Lucy smacked him a good one and said something like
“Whats the matter with you, you drunken lazy sod. Why dont you get a job and stop wasting your days hanging out with your trashy friends”
to which Joey Smith answered his Mom
“Ive learnt that that Presbyterian Church has told everone the truth about me and now I cant get a job in this town even if i wanted one. Any way I’m well off. I’ve still got you and Dad to support me”
(You will notice I supplied the answers to my queries myself. So you dont have to, even if you wanted to)
And then she went right out and joined the Presbyterian church.
YOU can't read.
'jesus' said not a word!
The First Vision (also called the grove experience) refers to a vision that Joseph Smith, Jr. said he received in 1820 when he was fourteen years old, in a wooded area in Manchester, New York. Originally framed as a personal theophany in which Smith received a forgiveness of sins, Smith eventually framed the vision to reinforce his authority as the founder and prophet of the Latter Day Saint movement. According to an account Smith told in the 1840s, he went to the woods to pray about which church to join but fell into the grip of an evil power that nearly overtook him. At the last moment, he was rescued by two shining "personages" (presumably Jesus and God the Father) who hovered above him. One of the beings told Smith not to join any existing churches because all taught incorrect doctrines.
Sigh...
It is you MORMONs that have no idea of the DETAILS of what was supposed to be untrue about PRESBYTERIANism, and yet that is a foundation upon which MORMON, Inc. is built!
“I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.””
And yet, young Joe’s mom went ahead and joined the Presbyterian Church!
Mom’s always know when their kids are lyin’!
In Joe’s case, his Mom knew his character and did the opposite.