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The Biblical and Heavenly Roots of the Sacred Liturgy
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 9/6/2010 | Msgr Charles Pope

Posted on 09/07/2010 2:10:43 AM PDT by markomalley

Catholics are often unaware just how Biblical the Sacred Liturgy is. The design of our traditional churches, the use of candles, incense, golden vessels, the postures of standing and kneeling, the altar, the singing of hymns, priests wearing albs and so forth are all depicted in the Scriptures. Some of these details were features of the ancient Jewish Temple, but most all of these are reiterated in the Book of Revelation which describes the liturgy of heaven.

The liturgy here on earth is modeled after the liturgy in heaven and that is why it is so serious to tamper with it. The Book of  Revelation describes the heavenly liturgy and focuses on a scroll or book  which contains the meaning of life and the answers to all we seek. It also focuses the Lamb of God, standing but with the marks of slaughter upon it. Does this not sound familiar? It is the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

We do well to be aware of the Biblical roots of the Sacred Liturgy not only for our own edification but also as an answer to Protestant Christians who have largely set aside these rituals and, some of whom, criticize our use of them. Many people consider our rituals empty and vain, “smells and bells.” Some consider austere liturgical environments devoid of much ritual to be “purer,” and closer to the worship in “spirit and in truth” that Jesus spoke of in John 4.

To such criticisms we must insist that these rituals, properly understood, are mystical and deeply biblical. Further, they are elements of the heavenly liturgy since almost all of them are mentioned as aspects of the worship or liturgy that takes place in heaven. In this light it is a serious mistake to set them aside or have a dismissive attitude toward them.

With that in mind we ought to consider the Biblical references to the most common elements of Catholic and Orthodox liturgies. I place an ocassional note in Red where it seems appropriate.

 Candles  -

Altar -

Chair -

Priests (elders) in Albs: 

Bishop’s Miter, priest biretta –

Focus on a scroll (Book) The Liturgy of the Word -

Incense, Intercessory prayer -

Hymns  –

Holy Holy Holy

Prostration (Kneeling) -

Lamb of God -

Acclamations –  

Amen!

Silence

Mary -

Happy are those called to his “supper”

Golden Vessels, vestments  -

Stained Glass -

Here is but a partial list, drawn only from the Book of Revelation. I invite you to add to it.  You might also read The Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn, and The Mass: A Biblical Prayer,by Fr. Peter Stravinskas.


TOPICS: Catholic; Worship
KEYWORDS: freformed
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1 posted on 09/07/2010 2:10:47 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

Awesome, thanks.


2 posted on 09/07/2010 5:40:53 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: markomalley

Non Catholic question: ... really, Im not Catholic and I dont seek to stir up argument; there are other threads for that kind of debate.

But I was glancing though and I paused at the part where Catholics claim Mary is the woman in Revelation 12 and I found (at least what I consider) an inconsistency here.

The passage in question says the woman cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for her delivery.

My question is this (it really is a serious question and Im not conceided enough to think this is original) ... but if Mary was sinless, why did she have the curse of Genesis given to women during childbirth?

Not a problem for me as a non-Catholic as I think the woman in Rev 12 is the nation of Israel ...

But I was just wondering if some of the theologians up here have an answer for this ...

Again, Im not trying to say “aha I have you now “ ... Im sure there is a Catholic response ... I just dont know what it is and am curious how this issue would be handled. I will not post again to this thread ... Thanks to you all ...


3 posted on 09/07/2010 6:07:59 AM PDT by dartuser ("Palin 2012 ... nothing else will do.")
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To: markomalley

Actually, I dont see CATHOLIC CAUCUS so I think my question is appropriate and I will respond to answers ... thanks.


4 posted on 09/07/2010 6:09:28 AM PDT by dartuser ("Palin 2012 ... nothing else will do.")
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To: markomalley
The apostles never had a "mass". There is no mention of a mass in scripture.. or any type of "sacrifice" or "altar" or "priesthood "

The attempt to make the "mass" biblical by pulling scripture out of context will only please that already believe it

5 posted on 09/07/2010 12:06:00 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: dartuser

She also has wigs and flies away...SERIOUS scriptural scholars believe the woman is Israel


6 posted on 09/07/2010 12:20:46 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
The apostles never had a "mass". There is no mention of a mass in scripture.. or any type of "sacrifice" or "altar" or "priesthood "

Of course, it wasn't called a "Mass." That's just one name for it. But they definitely had liturgy, which is the more "accurate," in a sense, name for it. You're argument is like those who don't believe in the Holy Trinity just because the term isn't in Scripture.

The attempt to make the "mass" biblical by pulling scripture out of context will only please that already believe it

Well, you're right except about the "out of context" part. For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.

7 posted on 09/07/2010 12:27:54 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: RnMomof7
SERIOUS scriptural scholars believe the woman is Israel

So, by default, Catholics aren't serious scriptural scholars, in your opinion. But that doesn't take into account that right before the beginning of chapter 12, the last verse of chapter 11 mentions how the "temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail." Then the woman is mentioned, who is the ark of the new testament.

8 posted on 09/07/2010 12:32:24 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480; RnMomof7

“So, by default, Catholics aren’t serious scriptural scholars, in your opinion.”

.
The roman Catholic Church is caught up in seeking justification for their completely unscriptural deification of Mary, and use practically every mention of a woman toward that end.

It is very clear that the term “Woman” in Genesis refers to Israel, and the parallels throughout the rest of scriptures mesh perfectly with that understandsing.

Mary is of no particular importance in scripture beyond her carrying of the child into the world. Subsequent to that, she became the epitome of the average Jewish woman, including the bearing of at least five, and more likely seven additional children. There is no mention of Mary whatsoever after Pentecost, as her job had been completed.
.


9 posted on 09/07/2010 12:42:02 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
The roman Catholic Church is caught up in seeking justification for their completely unscriptural deification of Mary

Straw man alert! Neither Catholic nor Orthodox believe that Mary is a "goddess," contrary to the longstanding claim of too many "Reformed" Christians.

10 posted on 09/07/2010 12:43:44 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480

You literally pray to Mary!

You attach to her the title of Semiramis: Mother of God, and Queen of Heaven; both deeply idolatrous pagan titles.

Scripture clearly tells us (in the words of Christ) that we are to pray to the Father, under the authority given us by the son.

Nowhere in god’s word are we given permission to pray to any other than the Father. To do so is idolatry.
.


11 posted on 09/07/2010 1:53:00 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: editor-surveyor
You literally pray to Mary!

Yes, and? Your theology of prayer is erroneous.

You attach to her the title of Semiramis: Mother of God, and Queen of Heaven; both deeply idolatrous pagan titles.

Semiramis? Never heard of that. The title of "Mother of God," or, more properly, "Theotokos" in Greek, is a recognition of who Christ is- a Person who is both human and divine. Queen of Heaven is the more controversial one, but again, it's something that is a gift of Christ, her royal Son, not something she has because she is a goddess.

Nowhere in god’s word are we given permission to pray to any other than the Father. To do so is idolatry.

You're following the erroneous teachings of the "Reformers."

12 posted on 09/07/2010 1:59:08 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: editor-surveyor
Heck, it isn't even the original "Reformers," but someone that came much later!

Alexander Hislop

13 posted on 09/07/2010 2:02:53 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480
Of course, it wasn't called a "Mass." That's just one name for it. But they definitely had liturgy, which is the more "accurate," in a sense, name for it. You're argument is like those who don't believe in the Holy Trinity just because the term isn't in Scripture.

Scripture please

There was no priesthood, no altars. The Lords table was not considered a sacrifice in the early church, so there were no need for those things that one needs for a sacrifice.

"Priesthood as we know it in the Catholic church was unheard of during the first generation of Christianity, because at that time priesthood was still associated with animal sacrifices in both the Jewish and pagan religions."

"A clearly defined local leadership in the form of elders, or presbyteroi, became still more important when the original apostles and disciples of Jesus died.
The chief elder in each community was often called the episkopos (Greek, 'overseer'). In English this came to be translated as 'bishop' (Latin, episcopus). Ordinarily he presided over the community's Eucharistic assembly."

"When the Eucharist came to be regarded as a sacrifice, the role of the bishop took on a priestly dimension. By the third century bishops were considered priests.
Presbyters or elders sometimes substituted for the bishop at the Eucharist.
By the end of the third century people all over were using the title 'priest' (hierus in Greek and sacerdos in Latin) for whoever presided at the Eucharist."
Catholic Customs & Traditions, Greg Dues (New London: Twenty Third Publications, 2007). pg166

No priesthood, no sacrifice, no "liturgy" (unless one calls singing liturgy), no altar... The Catholic mass, and system is found NO WHERE in the NT church

14 posted on 09/07/2010 3:21:12 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Pyro7480; editor-surveyor
So, by default, Catholics aren't serious scriptural scholars, in your opinion. But that doesn't take into account that right before the beginning of chapter 12, the last verse of chapter 11 mentions how the "temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail." Then the woman is mentioned, who is the ark of the new testament.

LOL..you just make my point so well

The Mercy seat sits atop the ark... so if She was the ark, she is the one that issues judgement, not Christ

This kind of teaching shows the perversion of scripture and how it is passed on.

The entire Bible is about Christ. All of the "types" are pointing to Christ.

The ark was a type of Christ, The mercy seat on top of it is where God met with men
Mary has not the authority to hear and judge men or to give or withold mercy

If you were to examine the history of the ark there would be striking resemblances to the ministry of Jesus our Lord:

The ark went before the people..It led them - Jesus went before them:

John 10:4 "And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.

The ark was in the middle of God's people - Jesus is in His people:

John 14:20 "At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

The people were to follow the ark - We are to follow Jesus: Luke 5:27-28 After these things He went out and saw a tax collector named Levi, sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, "Follow Me." So he left all, rose up, and followed Him.

And on and on, the ark was always first to lead them. It was death to those that were enemies of God. The ark brought blessings and curses.

http://www.bible-history.com/taberna...e_Covenant.htm Look For Christ not His mother , she does not save.

15 posted on 09/07/2010 3:33:43 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Pyro7480; editor-surveyor
Editor wrote: Nowhere in god’s word are we given permission to pray to any other than the Father. To do so is idolatry.

Pyro replied You're following the erroneous teachings of the "Reformers.

Could you point us to that "error" Where does scripture PRESCRIBE or ALLOW prayer to anyone but God?

16 posted on 09/07/2010 3:41:03 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Pyro7480; RnMomof7

> “Semiramis? Never heard of that.”

Because you never read the word of God?
.

Quote the scripture where the Lord allows a prayer to any human.
.


17 posted on 09/07/2010 4:28:08 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: markomalley
I wouldn't put a lot of stock in believing a literal interpretation of Revelation. Few can give a beginning to end interpretation. Even the Orthodox admit they don't understand the book.

I don't wish to highjack the discussion, but the seven churches of Revelation is a good example. If the Catholic Church was ONE church, why was their a need to address seven letter? And certainly God wasn't happy with all but one.

Burning incense or lighting candles do nothing. As Paul stated:

Col 2:23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

18 posted on 09/07/2010 6:23:41 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
If the Catholic Church was ONE church, why was their a need to address seven letter? And certainly God wasn't happy with all but one.

The seven churches were dealing with literal dioceses that were all part of the Church Universal (a/k/a Catholic). No different than the Church in Corinth, Thessaloniki, Rome, Colossae, Philippi, and the province of Galatia. And it didn't seem that God was too happy with many of them, either. Especially those rascals in Corinth.

As for the quote from St. Paul, you can clearly tell that he was referring to Judaizers. You can see that from looking at verse 11 in the same chapter: In whom also you are circumcised with circumcision not made by hand in despoiling of the body of the flesh: but in the circumcision of Christ.

In fact, if anything, the context of the overall passage actually informs me that we should worship as the heavenly worship goes. After all, as St Paul says in the verse following: Therefore if you be risen with Christ, seek the things that are above...

So if they burn incense in heaven, that works for me. If they have candles burning, that works for me as well.

Do I think that either are essential for salvation? No. So if you don't care for incense or candles, by all means, don't.

19 posted on 09/07/2010 7:03:03 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: dartuser

That she is Mary is clear from the simple fact that she is identified as the mother of Christ in that chapter.

A scholar of scripture might conclude that therefore Mary did suffer labor pains, — the absence of which is nowhere in the scripture, — but that the woman in Rev 12 is Mary and no one else is plain scritpure. It is always amusing to see Protestants argue fantastical theories about the woman being “Israel”.


20 posted on 09/07/2010 7:14:38 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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