Posted on 09/02/2010 6:59:52 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
In the days following Glenn Beck's highly publicized rally in Washington, D.C., conservative Christians have come out expressing their concern not over the increasingly popular broadcaster, but over the apparent confusion among Christ followers.
"There is something very strange going on here. I don't understand the disconnect on the part of Christians," said Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr., president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky.
Americans from across the country converged on the National Mall on Saturday for the "Restoring Honor" rally led by Fox News commentator Beck. Reports indicate that the event drew anywhere from 87,000 to 500,000 people. Beck, a Mormon, was joined by a diverse group of religious leaders – including evangelical Christians – as he called on America to turn back to God.
Mohler, one of the nation’s pre-eminent evangelical theologians, found that Beck's rally cries were resonating with many Christians.
"What concerned me about that event on the mall was not so much Glenn Beck and the politicians in the program; it was the picture of those religious leaders standing together," he said Tuesday on The Janet Mefferd Show.
During Saturday’s three-hour event, over 200 religious leaders stood behind Beck, linking arms at certain points. Dr. Richard Land, a well-known Southern Baptist, and Bishop Harry Jackson of Hope Christian Church in Maryland were among the conservative Christians standing there.
While Land does not agree with Beck's theology, he told National Public Radio that the event was about a deep concern of Americans that the country has taken "a fundamentally wrong turn and is headed in the wrong direction."
Jim Garlow, pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego, Calif., who was also at the event, said the rally was about extolling virtue and honoring God.
And the event was evangelical in tone, he said in a commentary on CNN.
"Despite the pre-rally discussions of Beck’s Mormonism, the rally’s litany of evangelical speakers gave it the Jesus-centeredness of a Billy Graham Crusade. All theological references were clearly evangelical and biblically based," Garlow wrote.
After observing the rally, Mohler came away with a different take and a big concern.
"The bottom line is ... we've been used and we've allowed ourselves to be used at times by politicians and others who co-opted God talk," he said Tuesday on The Janet Mefferd Show.
"We (conservative Christians in America) … have just assumed that because they were using our language, they were talking about the same Gospel or talking about the same understanding of God or talking about the same theological structure and that's just not true," he stressed.
Mohler doesn't disagree on uniting with others on common concerns and moral convictions.
But he underscored the need to "distinguish that from standing together in the faith."
"One of the healthiest things that can happen among conservative Christians is the ability to recognize, to discern the difference between civil religion and authentic Christianity," he explained.
The conservative theologian said he and many other believers agree with Beck on many of his political views. He also expressed appreciation for how Beck identifies "many really horrible and very dangerous liberal ideas."
But "[j]ust to debunk liberal ideas does not give you then the authority to be taken at your word ... to be speaking truth when then you talk about the Gospel," he cautioned.
"We just have to be mature Christians [and say] 'let's look at the Scripture. Let's look at what is being said here. We have a problem."
Continuing, Mohler outlined the fact that Mormons hold to a very different understanding of God than that of Christian theism.
"We're talking about very different deities here," he said. "And I think many Christians just have no idea as they were watching that event."
"How many American Christians who are watching that (rally) and resonating with the call for spiritual revival know that the man who is up there speaking, using words about Gospel and God and all the rest, believes that there was a male and a female deity, that the Godhead is a reproductive pair, that eventually we will be divine ourselves if indeed we follow the path of righteousness?" Mohler added.
Since January, Beck has been working on the themes of faith, hope and charity. He said his aim is to restore history, honor, and "our faith" in the country.
The popular commentator has discussed the Gospel of Jesus Christ repeatedly on his television program, even using evangelical language such as atonement through the shed blood of Christ.
But Mohler commented, "That's bizarre language for a Mormon to be using in this light and to have evangelical Christians affirm that he's talking about the same Gospel we are ... it's the same language but it's not the same Gospel."
What both Mohler and Mefferd believe is happening is spiritual rallying on vague terms.
"When we see some of the talk that has come out of the rally and some of the people associated with the rally, all about God, God, God, I just have really strongly felt that it needs to be a very precise definition when we bring God into the discussion on anything," radio host Mefferd stated.
Mohler described the scenario as having all the cards on the table but turned over so that the faces are not seen.
"You're having the language, but you're not having the definitions here," he noted.
"It really is not so much a concern politically, it's a concern theologically. If we are Christians, we have to understand the name of God is not just some kind of generic noun we can throw around."
While Mohler recognized that some Christians would be irritated listening to his take on Beck and the rally, the theologian hopes they'll be irritated enough to go and look at Scripture.
Amid the theological ambiguity and confusion, Mohler reminded Christians that a revival or spiritual renewal cannot happen without a heart that has known salvation through Jesus Christ.
"You can't have spiritual renewal where biblically speaking there's spiritual deadness," he said. "The reality is we can't biblically believe that they really know the one true and living God unless they know Him through Jesus Christ, our Lord."
Well, yes and no. I'm a subscriber to John Adams' take on the matter:
"We have no government armed in power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."
Adams was talking about a people who were largely self-policing, due to their inherent moral and religious beliefs. Governments exist to maintain order. Limited government works well when the preponderance of the people can be counted upon to be well-behaved without governmental help.
For people who are not self-policing, the need for order can only be maintained by forcing them to behave. As the number of such people increases, government's size and scope necessarily increases as well -- which is dangerous in its own right, since becoming part of that larger government is an attractive temptation to those who are not moral.
Importantly, in Adams' time there was general agreement on what constitutes "moral" behavior, and that was the case because nearly everybody shared the same fundamental Christian beliefs.
Those conditions don't exist anymore ... and the lack of such uniformity of belief helps to explain how things have reached their present lamentable state.
Beck's desire (whether or not he understands it) seems to be a return to the sort of society about which Adams was writing.
Well.... where does one find such uniformity of belief? It doesn't strictly require a common Christian belief, though I think we agree that Christianity is probably the best answer.
Yes, Norm they did. This has been sown dozens of times on FR.
You mistake me for somebody who cares about certain FReepers' obsession with Mormonism.
I see the Christian community is basically putting up the caution flag...and that's a good thing. Beck certainly isn't in a position to claim himself as a “preacher man”...he doesn't even know the one he claims let alone reach over that isle...but he will surely learn the difference now as others step up and out.
I am still uncomfortable with the “unity” thing....because he came across as uniting the faiths, although specifically behind his Patriotic push toward our country. Still, it is concerning...am still in the wait and see mode but enough out there, by Beck, to keep eyes and ears open.
How are you gaining?
Bye
Yea...I wonder too.
Yet here you are, are there any Christian churches, Catholic, Greek Orthodox, or Protestant, that recognize Mormon baptism as a Christian baptism? I'm not aware of any.
His wife still talked him into it, because he was a Catholic. (And still is a Catholic through his initial Baptism.)
Have you ever read Beck’s book “The Christmas Sweater.” Do read it — the proof that he was brought up Catholic is right there in his own words.
Beck needs to get back to his Catholic roots...
The primary principle is that there is one God, you should love him with all your mind, body, soul and strengh and have no other gods before him. It's the first commandment. Mormons believe in many gods.
I never said that I voted for Huckabee( I didn’t) I voted for the Mormon. I said that he preaches a true gospel and won’t back off from that.
That needs to be posted often as these mystical 'experiences' often make it very difficult for people to turn away from this false and deceptive "spiritualism". Yet another 'ism' which is not new at all...this spiritualism comes straight from Eastern religions which are incorporated into the churches and very much the agenda posed and planned for.
The Charismatic movement has had to strip these out of it as their memberships experiences exactly replicated the out of control behavior the Guru's place on their followers...which is another spirit other than Christ.
People really do need a heads up on this matter of experiences from other dimension's....or sightings they imagine occur. These are imposter's and will turn people to their experiences and away from the truth...just a matter of time. Unfortunately people underestimate or are not familiar with the enemies devices. Deception is a frequent tool because it works so well on the uninformed.
For the record norm, Hinkley said -
The LDS Church News reported: "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness [sic] of Times'" (June 20, 1998, ).
The Christ of Christianity IS THE Christ of the Bible. The Christ of the dispensation of the fullness of time is that Christ as defined by joseph smith, et.al apostles and prophets (summarized from lds.org).
Apostle Bruce McConkie (a former LDS Leader if I am not mistaken) stated ""We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well about what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense - the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to Him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God first, the Creator." (Bruce McConkie, Speech at BYU on March 2 1982)
So yes, your leaders have said you don't worship the Christ of the Bible. At best you worship the Christ defined by Joseph Smith.
Even Jews?
If you’re counting infant baptism to get you into Heaven, you might want to regroup.
Hopefully Becks “message” of returning to God was indeed taken with the idea of Christian roots.....but those who know Mormonism recognize that Mormonism does not have it's roots in the Christian Christ....rather an impostor.
Hi svcw,
I think what you are referring to is the quote from President Gordon B. Hinckley where he said “The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak”. (LDS Church News, Saturday, 20 June 1998)
The traditional Christ is certainly different from the Biblical Christ. He was referring to the Christ defined in non-biblical creeds that have become the tradition in much of Christianity.
Latter-day Saints believe firmly in the Jesus Christ of the New Testament.
Best,
Normandy
No mistake on my part...omitting very important BASIC mormon doctrine will usually be challenged with the facts. Now others that read the original post will have them.
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