Posted on 05/31/2010 6:33:12 AM PDT by Cronos
1. Where does the Bible claim sola scriptura?
2. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteous- ness; That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." --> it doesn't say that Scriptura is sufficient, just that it is profitable i.e. helpful. the entire verse from 14 to 17 says "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Greek: theopneustos = "God-breathed"), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works"
3. Where else do we have the term "sola scriptura" in the Bible?
4. Matthew 15 - Jesus condemns corrupt tradition, not all tradition. At no point is the basic notion of traidition condemned
5. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 "So then, brehtern, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter"
6. 1 Timothy 3:14-15
14Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.note that the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth is The Church of the Living God
Why would anyone except a Pythagorean pray to angles?
>>I addressed this earlier, in fact you even replied to it.
>
>Where did you address it, all I saw was the indulgences thing. Disagreeing with the Catholic Church on indulgences, is not a doctrine.
So then the catholic [universal] rejection of the doctrine of indulgences by Protestanta *ISN’T* a doctrine?
>>You have not answered my question.
Neither have you presented anything explaining the scriptures against your so called “essential unity” [or at leas casting doubt thereon] that I cited in post #242.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2524569/reply?c=242
>You don’t even agree if Christ is God equal 100% to the Father.
Let me reiterate the words of Jesus Himself on the subject:
John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, THE SON CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Also explain Paul’s observation about the “mind of Christ”:
Phil. 2:5-8
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Who, being in very nature God, DID NOT CONSIDER EQUALITY WITH GOD SOMETHING TO BE GRASPED, BUT MADE HIMSELF NOTHING, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man, HE HUMBLED HIMSELF AND BECAME OBEDIENT TO DEATH—even death on a cross!
How than can you claim that Jesus is equal to the Father when, as it is written, Jesus said that He [Jesus] could do nothing by Himself? Why do you, contrary to The Mind of Christ, consider equality with God something to be grasped? {If the goal of the Christian is to become more Christ-like, then this attitude should be ours too, no?}
Let's don't bring the Anglican Algebraics into this discussion or we'll be here all week talking about the sine of the Last Days.
Belteshazzar responded:So, Jesus is guilty of teaching heresy when He taught us to pray, “... forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors”?
Leoni answers: That's your convenient interpretation of scripture, so that you can judge yourself.
When Catholics confess their sins to a priest, they have to describe each mortal sin, and are asked questions about them by the priest. If any of you just one time went through the embarrassment of describing to a priest that you: played with yourself, fornicated, aborted, and used contraceptives...etc, you would not do it again for fear of having to go through that again.
Anyone with one mortal sin on their soul looses God's Sanctifying Grace.
Confessing direct to God is no different than confessing to yourself. Very convenient, it makes sense, the sacrament of confession is the first thing that fallen away Catholics do away with too. Add to that, that you are already saved, and you've done away with anything that would keep one from facing any judge but themselves while on this Earth. Anyone with eyes to see can see right through your hypocrisy. In the early Church people confessed their sins to the congregation out loud in front of the church (which I believe some Protestants still do).
Prayer and worship are not the same word, even in the English language. In English you could say “I pray to thee” as you would say “I request thee”. And the differences are starker in Latin and Greek
“Leoni answers: That’s your convenient interpretation of scripture, so that you can judge yourself”
Amswered like a true Saul Alinksyite in a Catholic’s robe!
I wonder if you are Robert Gibb’s sister!
>>- Howso, and by what means will you prove that it is?
>
>Easy! Are “prayer” and “worship” the same word, or not?
Now that could [logically] depend on the language... sometimes a word can have multiple meanings that, when translated, can become different words in the target language; likewise, a language with multiple words for something might be translated to a single word in the target language.
For example the set of Greek & English words: {Philos, Eros, Love}.
If prayer were completely discrete from worship then I would ask that you explain “Daniel and The Lion’s Den” & “The Fiery Furnace” wherein Daniel is given a capital punishment for praying to some God or man who was not the king AND the capital punishment imposed on Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego {SP? I’m typing from memory here} for failure to worship the King’s image.
Q: Why would anyone except a Pythagorean pray to angles?
A: Because they were deceived by a false doctrine.
1. Indicated in the same way the Trinity is “indicated”
2. That’s not diverting the question — you asked “where is it in the Bible” and I asked “where does it say that everything MUST be in the Bible” — sola scriptura is false and circular logic.
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Answer the freaking questions! You guys are all alike LDS, JW, Christian Science and etc....Avoid the question and ask another question or answer a question with a question! Sorry but that doesn’t work with me!
I’ll answer yours....
1. There three persons the scriptures called God and yet the bible says that these is “one” not sure how Mormons can’t under stand this, you will never be a god! If so, you will be a false god. Satan told Eve that in the garden, it was a lie! Just like Joseph said and he was not telling the truth! Psalms 90:2 says that God has always been God and the Mormon Church is not telling the truth!
The Holy Spirit who is called God Acts 5:3-4
The Son who is called God John 1:1, 1:14, Col. 2:9
The Father is called God Phil. 1:2
And the bible says that there in only one God Isa. 43:10, 44:6&8, 46:9 etc....
2. You still don’t give me any answers, this was never about the bible but Mormon doctrine, answer the question! Why does Mormon doctrine contradict the BOM?
That’s why I don’t like to talk to you guys unless I am face to face with you and have my LDS books with me so that you can see what your early leader have said.
>God is NOT limited by a book....
Whomever said that He was? I didn’t, did I?
Addendum:
If “Praying to Angles” was allowed, then Daniel could have slipped around that law completely by citing the technicality that an angel is neither God nor man, correct?
“Leoni answers:Strawman! I didn’t say “everything”.”
Ok, all Catholics agree on Catholic doctrine, right?
Understood.
YOPIOS, plus “already saved”, plus confessing "direct to Jesus", are analogous to attending a online university, where you are guaranteed a 4.0 average PhD degree, and you grade your own, open book tests.
Baptists aren’t protestants... just to be technical.
YOPIOS, plus “already saved”, plus confessing "direct to Jesus", are analogous to attending a online university, where you are guaranteed a 4.0 average PhD degree, and you grade your own, open book tests.
Old testament is very clear about not praying or worshipping to idols or any lesser thing other than to God. Even God’s angels would tell men not to worship them.
You might find strong minded folks who can keep the differences straight in their minds when they VENERATE a saint verses worshipping and praying directly to God, but anyone using relics, saint Christopher metals and the like have passed over the line; like they have when they pray directly to a saint or to Mary asking for direct intercession or intervention in return for worship and adoration.
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