Is Sola Fide unscriptural? {Open}

www.cronos.com ^ | 31-May-2010 | Self Topic

[Cronos]

We dance around this topic each time on the RF of FR, so let's have a focused discussion on this

Is sola fide scriptural or unscriptural?

Let's take a few verses from scripture in context:

Matthew 25:31-46 -

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee and hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

This very clearly does not say anything about faith ALONE

John 5: 24:

 ²⁴Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 ²⁵Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

 ²⁶For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

 ²⁷And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

 ²⁸Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

 ²⁹And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This clearly points out that faith is important but not ALONE in salvation

Then James 2:14 to 26

James 2:14-26 -
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Then let's look at what St. Paul says:
Romans 2

5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

1 Corinthians 3:10-17 -

3:10 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are." Doesn't fit with Sola Fide, now does it?

Galatians 6:7-9:

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Then John 3: 4 to 20

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit.
7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.'
8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things?
11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d]
14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g]
19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

This clearly talks about baptism and how we do good deeds IN our belief. Our faith and works are tied together irreversibly.

The Church teaches that we believe and receive through God's grace. We are not adding to Christ's work, His one-time sacrifice for all time. Paul and the Church condemn works without grace as we cannot earn grace but are ALL (no conditional election) freely granted it as a gift

[bkaycee]

The act of accepting Christ is a good work done through grace.

A person is given the Faith to Believe as a GIFT! Rom 1:17 For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by FAITH from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

First to last, from beginning to end, its faith, nothing else! Rom 4:5 "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness."

3.Titus 3:5: "not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. . . . "

4.Galatians 3:21-22: "For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."

How can one be promised Salvation by belief if it is also by works?

James 2:14-16: "Faith without works is dead." This passage does not teach that salvation is accomplished by any human effort, but instead that no one can see one's faith without works. James uses Abraham as his example, just as Paul did in Romans 4. However, James discusses how one's actions "justify" him before other men, and Paul discusses justification before God (how one becomes saved).

Rom 9:16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

John 6:28 Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" 29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

[Cronos]

We are saved by God’s grace. We are justified by that and faith plays a role in our salvation, but it is NOT faith alone —> where does scripture or tradition SAY that?

[CitizenUSA]

Where does scripture state we are saved by faith?

Rom. 3:28-30, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.”

Rom. 4:5, “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,”

Rom. 5:1, “therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,”

Rom. 9:30, “What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith.”

Rom. 10:4, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”

Rom. 11:6, “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.”

Gal. 2:16, “nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.”

Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Gal.3:5-6, “Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.”

Gal. 3:24, “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.”

Eph. 2:8-9, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast.”

Phil. 3:9, “and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.”

[CitizenUSA]

I really don’t see any value in continuing the discussion. Either we are saying the same things and don’t realize it, or we have different interpretations and further discourse is unlikely to change either of our minds. God bless you.

[Cronos]

And yet the same author who wrote Romans 4 also wrote Philippians 2:12 which says "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"

Church teaching is that we can do nothing to merit the grace that comes to us in baptism, which is the normal beginning of the Christian life. In fact, the Council of Trent condemned anyone who taught that we can save ourselves or who taught even that God helps us do what we could do for ourselves. The Church teaches that we can be saved only by God’s grace. Following Paul, the Catholic Church teaches that justification comes by faith. Only it says that it doesn’t come through faith alone. If you look carefully at Paul’s writings, you will notice that he never says that our righteousness comes from faith alone—only that it comes from faith apart from works.

And more importantly to read the Bible as a whole we see James saying that "a man is justified by his works". Do James and Paul contradict each other? No. because Paul always talks about works through the law i.e. he always is talking about the OT law. In Galatians he is specifically talking against circumscion. Paul speaks about Christians fulfilling the law by following the command to "love your neighbor as yourself" (Gal. 5:14). He then explains that we must show the "fruit of the Spirit" (Gal 5:16–26) and bear one another’s burdens (Gal. 6:1ff) as a way of fulfilling the "law of Christ" (Gal. 6:2). All Paul’s teaching comes down to this: Our own works can never justify us, but works that grow out of faith in Christ are part of our justification. That’s why Paul says in Philippians 2:12 you must "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." And that squares with James’s teaching that works that grow from faith justify

In Romans Paul said that Abraham was not justified by works but by faith. Paul means that Abraham was not justified by keeping the Old Testament law, while James means that Abraham was justified by doing a work that grew out of his faith in God (James 2:21 ""Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?" ")

[Cronos]

Faith and works are irretrievably entwined.

We agree on that.

Do Catholics tell people they have to earn their way into heaven? No we do not. That grace is given by God alone.

[daniel1212]

Besides what is officially stated, that of salvation by grace through merit, that by God’s grace, received thru sacraments, man does works which merit salvation, what is effectually conveyed is that of confidence in one’s own merit and the power of the church to gain salvation by.

As said before, while we can state the theological distinction, man’s nature is one that resists the kind of abasement and surrender that results when man realizes that he is not worthy of eternal life, nor will he ever be, on the basis of any merit of his own work, or even the merit of his faith, but instead he is worthy of eternal damnation, and so must cast all his faith on the crucified and risen Lord Jesus. It is because of who Christ is and what He did that one is justified, which state is appropriated by God-given faith, one that results in works of faith, being led by the Spirit.

Salvific faith is an admission that only God is wholly holy and just, and that you are wicked and justly damned, and that the only way you can be saved is on His blood-expense, and on His righteousness. And repentance is implicit in believing, and believing in the Lord Jesus to save also implicitly attributes deity to Him.Thus God gets all the glory, and not man, and while he is saved by imputed righteousness, practical holiness will be the result.

(Rom 3:23-26) “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; {24} Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: {25} Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; {26} To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”

(Titus 3:5) “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;”

(2 Cor 5:19-21) “To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. {20} Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. {21} For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

(2 Cor 6:1) “We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.”

[daniel1212]

This would provide more on the subject: http://www.christiantruth.com/articles/RCJustification.html

[daniel1212]

As documented above, the Reformationists did not teach that righteousness comes from faith which is alone, nor do the requirement of works as a resuit of faith teach justification is merited by them, while what Rome means by salvation by grace is that by God’s grace, dispense thru her sacraments, one does works by which they truly merit eternal life.

As regards Romans 4, this teaches imputed righteousness, not based upon a constitutional change in ones heart, while the negation of salvation by the merit of O.T. law-keeping is not limited to the Law, but that represented the standard, and negates all works are meriting salvation. (Titus 3:5) If this were not the case, imputed righteousness by faith would not be needed. “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. {6} Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,” (Rom 4:5-6)

To hold that one is justified by faith apart from works, but that works merit eternal life, is inconsistent and not Biblical.

As for James, if he is indeed teaching that faith-works themselves justify, then he both contradicts both Paul and Genesis 15:6. However, if he is teaching, in reaction to antinomianism, that only a faith which is manifested in works is salvific, being not alone, then they both agree.

But such works are not the same as perfunctory professions or even good works which one rests upon for God to justify Him by. And if Rome pressed upon its people that they were in dire need of salvation due to their sins and utter inability to justify themselves and escape eternal damnation, and must cast all their faith upon the Lord Jesus for salvation and the new birth, rather than treating them as saved souls because of infant baptism thru proxy faith, then evangelicals and Catholics could have some fellowship in the Spirit.

[daniel1212]

More here: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/sola-scriptura-earlychurch.html
http://www.christiantruth.com/solascriptura.html

But “unanimous consent of the fathers” is rare, and does not apply to all that Rome invokes it for: http://www.christiantruth.com/articles/livingtradition.html http://www.equip.org/articles/apostolic-tradition

Sola scriptura can have somewhat nuanced definitions (mainly as regards formally sufficiency), but most surely holds to the “supremacy of Scripture”, that while it materially provides for the teaching office of the church, and that God may “speak” to believers today (esp. during the offering), and that there is information that is not written in the Scriptures, (Jn. 21:25; Rev. 10:4) but that all such is subject to the Scriptures, this beng the only objective authority which is affirmed therein to be 100% inspired by God.

[bkaycee]

Do Catholics tell people they have to earn their way into heaven? No we do not. That grace is given by God alone.

Grace that is "merited" to perform good works is STILL WORKS.

The supposed "free grace" given by God, still requires the RC to perform the required works.

If cooperation is required to produce the works to attain heaven then its not REALLY a gift AND people CAN boast about their "grace" induced works!

Grace recieved to perform worthy Works is STILL WORKS!

The RC is then not saved by CHRIST's righteousness, but through his own achieved righteousness!

[Cronos]

did you READ what the council of Trent wrote? It’s excerpted above. We are SAVED by Christ’s righteousness. We do not merit grace but receive it as a gift. That is Church teaching. God gives us the grace to have faith. We respond to God’s grace by faith. Our faith, if it is genuine, is shown through works.

[bkaycee]

We do not merit grace but receive it as a gift. That is Church teaching. God gives us the grace to have faith. We respond to God’s grace by faith. Our faith, if it is genuine, is shown through works. Sounds like you might be a bit off. Council of Trent, Canon 24, 32

If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof: let him be anathema.

If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified...does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life— if so be, however, that he depart in grace,—and also an increase of glory: let him be anathema. The comments of John Gerstner are very pertinent here:

Some Romanists will say that they too teach justification by grace—by Christ’s righteousness, in fact. But the righteousness of Christ which they claim justifies is not Christ’s own personal righteousness reckoned or credited or given or imputed to believers. Romanists refer to the righteousness which Christ works into the life of the believer or infuses into him in his own living and behavior. It is not Christ’s personal righteousness but the believer’s personal righteousness, which he performs by the grace of God. It is Christ’s righteousness versus the believer’s own righteousness.

It is Christ’s achievement versus the Christian’s achievement. It is an imputed righteousness not an infused righteousness. It is a gift of God versus an accomplishment of man. These two righteousnesses are as different as righteousnesses could conceivable be. It does come down to the way it has been popularly stated for the last four and a half centuries: Protestantism’s salvation by faith versus Rome’s salvation by works...The Protestant trusts Christ to save him and the Catholic trusts Christ to help him save himself. It is faith versus works.

[Cronos]

Repeat again — The Church does NOT teach that you can save yourself.

[bkaycee]

Council of Trent:

If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof: let him be anathema.

If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified...does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life— if so be, however, that he depart in grace,—and also an increase of glory: let him be anathema.

This teaching is further endorsed in harmony with Trent by the following Roman Catholic authorities:

The Question and Answer Catholic Catechism: 1074. What is habitual or sanctifying grace? Habitual or sanctifying grace is a supernatural quality that dwells in the human soul, by which a person shares in the divine nature, becomes a temple of the Holy Spirit, a friend of God, his adopted child, an heir to the glory of heaven, and able to perform actions meriting eternal life (emphasis added).

Ludwig Ott
As God’s grace is the presupposition and foundation of (supernatural) good works, by which man merits eternal life, so salutary works are, at the same time gifts of God and meritorious acts of man...By his good works the justified man really acquires a claim to supernatural reward from God...A just man merits for himself through each good work an increase in sanctifying grace, eternal life (if he dies in a state of grace) and an increase of heavenly glory (emphasis added).