Is Sola Fide unscriptural? {Open}

www.cronos.com ^ | 31-May-2010 | Self Topic

[Cronos]

We dance around this topic each time on the RF of FR, so let's have a focused discussion on this

Is sola fide scriptural or unscriptural?

Let's take a few verses from scripture in context:

Matthew 25:31-46 -

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee and hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

This very clearly does not say anything about faith ALONE

John 5: 24:

 ²⁴Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 ²⁵Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

 ²⁶For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

 ²⁷And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

 ²⁸Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

 ²⁹And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This clearly points out that faith is important but not ALONE in salvation

Then James 2:14 to 26

James 2:14-26 -
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Then let's look at what St. Paul says:
Romans 2

5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

1 Corinthians 3:10-17 -

3:10 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are." Doesn't fit with Sola Fide, now does it?

Galatians 6:7-9:

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Then John 3: 4 to 20

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit.
7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.'
8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.

10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things?
11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d]
14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g]
19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

This clearly talks about baptism and how we do good deeds IN our belief. Our faith and works are tied together irreversibly.

The Church teaches that we believe and receive through God's grace. We are not adding to Christ's work, His one-time sacrifice for all time. Paul and the Church condemn works without grace as we cannot earn grace but are ALL (no conditional election) freely granted it as a gift

[Cronos]

The discussion is on sola fide

The doctrine of sola fide or "by faith alone" asserts God's pardon for guilty sinners is granted to and received through faith or belief alone

whereas The Church teaches that grace, which implies good works, is also necessary for salvation, Matthew 25:31-46; that is, by God's grace through faith (also a favour given by him, Matthew 16:17), Ephesians 2:8-10, and the Christian's response to it in God's grace Galatians 5:6, as faith perfected by good works, James 2:22.

At no point in time does any biblical or traditional verse state the by faith ALONE. To let grace work through you to accept Christ shows that it is not faith ALONE.

[freemama]

We are saved by the grace of God, through the death of His Son. The faith to grasp this is totally His gift.

Wprks are an outgrowth of this truth. And even our best works are not good enough. Only Christ makes them worth anything.

The original Protestant church - the Lutheran church - teaches that at the time of the break from the Roman church, the Roman church did teach salvation through works. The Lutheran church also teaches that the Roman church has since straightened that out now for the most part.

I cannot speak to what the other Christian churches teach about this topic. Many of them teach acceptance theology, which is based on salvation through works. I don’t see how they can say anything about the Roman church on the issue of sola fide!

[CitizenUSA]

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” -Ephesians 2:8,9

I don’t think the act of accepting Christ itself is a work. Really, this discussion is irrelevant. The above scripture quite clearly states a person is saved by faith, not works. Yet, other scriptures state works are a result of faith. The two go hand in hand. All authority to decide resides in Christ.

[Cronos]

Romans 1:17 states “But the righteous man shall live by faith”,

Not faith alone by by faith.

Romans 3:28,” For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law”

Not faith alone and furthermore the verse imparts that man is justified by faith APART from works of the Law, i.e. that both are needed

Romans 4:16,”It is by faith in order that it may be in accordance with grace

Again, not faith ALONE>

Ephesians 2:8, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God”

By grace we have been saved through faith, through the act of acceptance of Christ's sacrifice. This is the gift of God. Grace as exemplified through works acts with faith in Christ's sacrifice in our justification

Pray do read what The Church teaches we do not perform good works in order to enter a state of justification.

The Council of Trent stated that "nothing which precedes justification, whether faith or works, merits the grace of justification" (Decree on Justification 8).

In fact, it is impossible for an unjustified person to do supernaturally good works, since these are based on the virtue of charity (supernatural love), which an unjustified person does not have. Good works therefore flow from our reception of justification; they do not cause us to enter a state of justification. Good works increase the righteousness we are given at justification and please God, who promises to give us supernatural rewards on the last day, including the gift of eternal life (Rom 2:6-7, Gal 6:6-10).

[Cronos]

Faith as the critical "first step". hmm... I agree with you that faith is critical. The discussion is really on the phrase faith ALONE...

A dying man who repents may still be saved by his acceptance of Christ -- he is able to accept Christ by the power of grace, the act of acceptance is the good works.

[CitizenUSA]

Yes, but that still ignores scripture. Remember, scripture specifically states you are saved by faith, not of works. Not of works means exactly that, including the potential “work” of accepting the gift. I don’t think acceptance of the gift itself is a work, otherwise the scripture wouldn’t make any sense.

[Cronos]

Do note that there was a rejection of Pelagianism in the 4th century. There has never been a belief in works alone. We reject “works of debt” and works of “our own righteousness” — only works done in grace are good works.

[Cronos]

And yet “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” -Ephesians 2:8,9 --> as you pointed out the two go hand in hand. The discussion is on the term "sola". We both agree that it is NOT faith alone.

The act of accepting Christ is a good work done through grace.

[Cronos]

Come on, John 2: 24 “24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.”

[BipolarBob]

Looking through here, I’m not seeing any REAL disagreement. We all agree Faith is the first and important step. The dying repentant man who REALLY repents will be saved. Works is a partner in faith as it shows the world you really do believe and it strengthens your faith. Don’t develop a strategy that a person will wait until their deathbed to automatically switch sides. God may take you unawares or how genuine is it if you staged the whole thing? I think we’re in agreement on the gist of the topic here.

[CitizenUSA]

saved: To rescue from harm, danger, or loss.

justified: To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid.

[sueuprising]

Romans 1:17 states “But the righteous man shall live by faith”,

Not faith alone by by faith
I would say that “by faith” means the same as faith alone. For if you are saved by faith, and not by anything else, then that is faith alone. You seem to be searching for scriptural support for the actual words faith alone which is implied. Again, “faith apart from works” which is the way a man becomes justified does not indicate that it is anything other than faith which does this justification, hence faith alone. The reformers were trying to make clear that there is nothing one can do to earn this salvation. It was over this that Luther as Catholic priest agonized until he realized it was Christ who had done all the work and that by faith the righteousness of Christ was imputed onto the believer. The council of trent seems to have been a response to what we would now call the five points of calvinism, much of which was challenged by Arminius. However, it also seems to me that to a Roman Catholic, faith is inextricably linked to the sacrament of baptism. In other words, an unbaptized Catholic is no Christian at all. Although baptism is recommended by the apostles and seems to have been the norm amongst the early Christians, as a statement of their faith, an unbaptized believer, however odd, is not exempt from eternal life. Is it not true that Roman Catholics believe that it is only through the church that salvation comes since they believe the church itself is the means by which salvation is reckoned?

[CitizenUSA]

I think scripture is entirely consistent.

You are saved (rescued) by faith alone—not works.

Once you are saved, you are justified (prove you have faith) by performing works.

There’s little reason for contention here, and contention itself is counterproductive. It’s splitting hairs and doesn’t advance our cause.

[BipolarBob]

Agreed.

[Cronos]

How can you say that you are saved by faith alone when you have Scripture saying:

Matt 25:45-46:

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

And John 5:29

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

And James 2: 24-24

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.

1 cor 3:14

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

We are saved by God's grace. As markomalley quoted "God gives us the grace to have faith. We respond to God’s grace by faith. Our faith, if it is genuine, is shown through works."

Sue -- for your last point, please check the other thread today on sola scriptura.

[CitizenUSA]

Scripture states we are justified by our works. Scripture also states we are saved by faith, not by works. If you understand the difference between the words, justification and saved, then you also understand why scripture is consistent.

Scripture does not say we are saved by works. That’s actually heresy, because it diminishes Christ’s sacrifice. If works are required for salvation, then Christ’s death is inadequate to save us. But we know that’s not true.

Everything you do after salvation proves your faith. It justifies you. If you exhibit no change whatsoever, no works, then your faith is dead.

Faith is the cause, works are the effect. If you have faith, you’ll do the works. Faith first, then works.

[daniel1212]

This is not an issue that is to be dealt with by cherry picking some Scriptures, and which both sides are guilty of. And while it is a subject that difficult to do here, i would like to state that while the fruit of faith can be used as a basis for judgment as revealing what manner of faith one has, it is not by any merit of faith that one is justified by, but by faith out of a poor and contrite heart.

When the Bible explicitly deals with the subject as to what exactly a soul is justified by, as regards faith versus works, it clearly explicitly teaches that “ if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. {3} For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. {4} Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. {5} But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. {6} Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,” (Rom 4:2-6) And to this many more (Gal. 3; Eph. 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2Tim. 1:9, etc.) explicit texts can be added, including most all of John.

However, the kind, or quality, of faith which is salvific is another issue, which James contextually deals with in seeming contradicting Paul and Gn. 15:6.. However, both confirm that saving faith is that which, like that of Abraham’s, is characterized by obedience to its Object, (Jn. 10:27,28) and which manifests “things which accompany salvation”, (Heb. 6:9) while faith without works is dead”. (Ja. 2:20,26)

Therefore, things which characterize true faith, from a poor and contrite spirit to love for the brethren, are rightly invoked as an evidential basis by which true believers are justified, (Mt. 5:1-10; Heb. 5:9; 1Jn. 2:3; Rv. 22:14) as possessing true faith, and by which believers are damned, as their works testify of their unbelief in Christ. Those who rest in Christ as Savior shall confess and follow Him as LORD. Conversely, those who rely upon their good works to justify them before an infinitely holy and perfectly just God, rather than humbling themselves before God as sinners, worthy of damnation and unable to justify themselves, shall hear those fearsome words, “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Mt. 7:22)

Rom 10:10 states, “For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Note the confessional aspect. Abraham was indeed justified before God before (Gn. 15:6), and which Paul invokes in making his case that is most precisely faith that justifies, (Rm. 4:3) before he manifested that faith by being willing to offer up his son Issac, (Gn. 22), and which events James invokes to show that it is not a fruitless faith that justifies. Whether it is a sinner’s prayer or baptism (confessing Christ in body language), both are manifesting faith, but it is not by MERIT of works that one is justified by, but by imputed righteousness, unworthy man being humbled and redeemed on Christ’s expense and mertt, and thus God alone exalted, and which is the key conflict.

While evangelicals are often accused of preaching that a faith without works justifies (though they characteristically evidence far more than their Catholic counterparts), the Westminster Confession of Faith (11:2) states:

Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet it is not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but works by love.

In seeming contrast, the Council of Trent “infallibly” defines that

“nothing further is wanting to the justified, to prevent their being accounted to have, by those very works which have been done in God, fully satisfied the divine law according to the state of this life, and to have truly merited eternal life.” (Trent, 1547, The Sixth Session Decree on justification, chapter XVI)

Canon 32 similarly states,

“If anyone says that..the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit an increase of grace, eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself and also an increase of glory, let him be anathema.” (Trent, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 32. Also see The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, in Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom, Grand Rapids: Baker, 1919 ed., Decree on Justification, Chapters V, VI, VII, X, XIV, XV, XVI) (emphasis mine)

The more recent Roman Catholic catechism states,

“Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification and for the attainment of eternal life (Catechism of the Catholic church, Part 3, Life in Christ, Merit, 2010)

While to some this distinction btwn faith and works may seem to be a matter of semantics, it is a crucial distinction. And although the manner of faith which justifies is to be emphasized, as the nature of man is to place confidence in his supposed merit in order to avoid the debasement and surrender necessary to be saved, that salvation is by faith must also be emphasized, and the preaching which beings souls under such conviction of their dire need for it is also critical. And this is what see in Acts, and the salvation of souls is my main burden.

[Colonel_Flagg]

“But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” - Matthew 4:4

Good enough for me. Bless your day.

[Jedidah]

Well said, Bob.

I urge everyone to read Romans 4, which speaks plainly to the subject.

Abraham was a model of faith. That chapter speaks of his justification by faith, apart from works. However, it also speaks of his willing and enthusiastic obedience. Look at Abraham’s life: he confirmed his faith through action, and that is our model.

In other words, what is expected of us is an active, obedient faith, not just mental assent.

[CitizenUSA]

daniel1212: “This is not an issue that is to be dealt with by cherry picking some Scriptures, and which both sides are guilty of.”

I don’t really understand why this is a matter for contention between Catholics and protestants in the first place. It’s splitting hairs. Faith and works are irretrievably entwined.

Would a protestant tell someone to forget about works? I don’t think so. In fact, the Christian leaders I know are always encouraging people to do more good works.

Do Catholics tell people they have to earn their way into heaven? I’m not a Catholic, so I don’t know. However, I sure hope not.

Again, what’s the big deal?