Posted on 05/10/2010 8:26:24 PM PDT by delacoert
Robinson contends that LDS Christology is both biblical and Christian, if one does not assume that the extrapolations of the Councils are equivalent to the testimony of Scripture.45 He writes that Latter-day Saints “accept the formula of ‘one God in three persons.’ However, we believe that the oneness of these three is not an ontological oneness of being (this is a creedal rather than a biblical affirmation), but a oneness of mind, purpose, power and intent.”46 Concerning the doctrine of the Trinity, he writes:
If by “the doctrine of the Trinity” one means that the New Testament teaching that there is a Father, a Son, and a Holy Ghost, all three of whom are fully divine, then Latter-day Saints believe in the doctrine of the Trinity .... However, if by “the doctrine of the Trinity” one means the doctrine formulated by the councils of Nicaea and Chalcedon and elaborated upon by subsequent theologians and councils—that God is three coequal persons in one substance or essence—then Latter-day Saints do not believe it.47
He further states:
That God is somehow simultaneously three and one I have no doubt because the Bible and the Book of Mormon both tell me so, but I do not trust the intellectuals of the Hellenistic church to have figured out exactly how this is so (1 Cor. 3:19), nor do I invest their theories and conclusions with the authority of Scripture.48
Terms referring to God’s essence (ousia) are not biblical terms, but philosophical terms that reflect a concern with questions that, according to Robinson, the biblical writers were not concerned to address.
Robinson argues that the oneness that characterizes the Godhead is found in passages such as John 17:21-23; Romans 12:5; 1 Corinthians 12:12-13; Galatians 3:28, etc. “where the individual disciples can also be ‘one’ in the Father and the Son, or ‘one’ in Christ, or even ‘one’ with each other in Christ—though still remaining separate beings with separate and individual bodies.”49
Craig Blomberg points out that the Mormon position of three separate divine beings in the Godhead who are only related by an agreement in mind, purpose, power and intent, leaves room for both polytheism and a denial of the actual deity of the Son and the Spirit.50 In short the Mormon Godhead more closely resembles a heavenly committee than the properly stated Christian doctrine of the Trinity.
What Mormonism teaches about the birth of Christ is a crucial question when seeking to determine whether or not the Mormon Christ is the Christian Christ. Concerning the birth of Christ, Robinson states:
The exact details of how Jesus’ conception was accomplished have not been revealed, either in the Bible or in modern revelation.
While it is true that certain LDS leaders (mostly in the nineteenth century) have offered their opinions on the conception of Jesus, those opinions were never included among the official doctrines of the church and have, during my lifetime at least, not appeared in official church publications—lest they be taken as the view of the church.51
Robinson is either not telling the truth or sadly mistaken on this point. The official LDS publication, Family Home Evenings, signed by the First Presidency, and published by the LDS church in 1972, in the chapter entitled, “Whom Say Ye That I Am?” contains this quotation:
Now, we are told in the scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. Well, now for the benefit of the older ones, how are children begotten?” I answer just as Jesus Christ was begotten of his father. The difference between Jesus Christ and other men is this: Our fathers in the flesh are mortal men, who are subject unto death: but the Father of Jesus Christ in the flesh is the God of Heaven ....
We must come down to the simple fact that God Almighty was the Father of His Son Jesus Christ. Mary, the virgin girl, who had never known mortal man, was his mother. God by her begot His son Jesus Christ, and he was born into the world with power and intelligence like that of His Father ...
Now my little friends, I will repeat again in words as simple as I can, and you talk to your parents about it, that God, the Eternal Father, is literally the father of Jesus Christ.52
The parents are directed to: “discuss in your own words how Jesus was the only begotten Son of God. You might want do this by using the following illustration on a chalkboard or piece of paper.”53 (See appendix for a copy of the illustration.)
Ezra Taft Benson, the LDS president from 1985 through May of 1994, wrote: “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father.”54
Latter-day Saints, in Robinson’s opinion, have a type of subordinationism “that was common in the earliest Christian church and was not felt to be contrary to the orthodox Christian faith until after the fourth century.”55 Thus, he argues, Mormons ought not be defined as non-Christian for believing what many early Christians believed.56 That Mormon subordinationism is conditional in nature is evident when he writes: “ . . . for the divine Son and the divine Holy Spirit are subordinate to the Father and dependent on their oneness with him for their divinity. They cannot stand alone; they are ‘God’ only as they are one with the Father in the Godhead. If their oneness with the Father should cease, so would their divinity.”57 The divinity of Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit is thus of a derived nature.
Robinson’s assertion that an LDS type of subordinationism was common in the ante-Nicene church is incorrect.58 No ante-Nicene Father ever taught what Mormons teach about God the Father and Christ the Son when one examines exactly what the LDS church teaches about God the Father and Christ the Son. The issue is not, whether or not one can find some similarities between LDS theology and the theology of the ante-Nicene Fathers at some points, but whether or not one can say that the ante-Nicene Fathers taught an LDS Christology in the main. The answer is No!
No ante-Nicene Father ever wrote that Jesus Christ was the first-born spirit child of Elohim and the heavenly mother. No ante-Nicene Father ever wrote that Jesus was married and that his deity depended upon his having the proper kind of marriage. And certainly no ante-Nicene Father ever wrote that Jesus was born as the result of a sexual union between God the Father and Mary. All of these positions Mormonism affirms. Robinson is silent on most, if not all, of these points.
The answer to the question is still, NO.
You better make sure you got ur asbestos undies on LOL.
I thought he worked at Wheel Works on Monterey Street?
What happened to 999replies? I thought that was funny.
Why are there two threads with the same title?
I pulled it. Posts which have no theological context but only condemn other RF posters are trouble-making.
LOL, I understand. Still, thought it was funny.
“If by “the doctrine of the Trinity” one means that the New Testament teaching that there is a Father, a Son, and a Holy Ghost, all three of whom are fully divine, then Latter-day Saints believe in the doctrine of the Trinity .... However, if by “the doctrine of the Trinity” one means the doctrine formulated by the councils of Nicaea and Chalcedon and elaborated upon by subsequent theologians and councils—that God is three coequal persons in one substance or essence—then Latter-day Saints do not believe it.”
Every major diviation(heresy) from Biblical Christianity share one common thread....they do not affirm the Trinity (better stated Triunity) of God. This one thing alone....incorrect understanding of the Trinity/Triunity makes Mormonism a heresy. Other aspects of Mormonisn also make it a cult. I mean no rancor by these statements...I’m just stating things plainly. Many to most practicing Mormons are fine human beings and a very upright moral people; that is a fact as well. However, they are not “Christian.” Being good and upright do not a “Christian” make. One must, in faith, see the Lord Jesus Christ as the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob “in the flesh.” Not a God, but THE God.
Another issue is their constant calling Christians apostates. They will say they don’t believe that and they to are Christians.
But, if that is so, then why should there be restored church or ones salvation be at risk for the error of not being Mormon?
Revelation 22:18
“For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
I think that’s pretty clear.
WHY?
My hermeneutics professor (a minister and theologian) explained it to me thusly:
(1) They have a different God,
(2) they have a different Heaven, and
(3) they have a different pathway to salvation (the big three distinctions which are the sine qua non of Christianity).
Those three differences alone are sufficient to preclude Mormonims from being considered "Christian." Ever.
Add to that the fact that there are cultic aspects to it: Secret underwear, secret handshake, idiomatic expressions and its own unique argot, and yes, it does resemble a cult.
It also has some elements that are eerily reminiscent of ancient, discredited gnosticism: All of God's plan for your salvation isn't revealed at the beginning, you have to progress upward, within the church, through many levels of understanding. There are hidden layers of revealed knowledge and secret ceremonies, to be revealed, all in good time.
Compare that to Christianity: Which has nothing to hide. God wants his pathway to salvation to be OPEN and UNDERSTOOD from the beginning. No secrets.
Sauron
hehehehe
“Is the Mormon Jesus the Christian Jesus?”
Yes. Of course. It’s just that many of the other Christian denominations are a bit confused about the true nature of God, Christ and the Holy Ghost.
Has it already been a week since the last ‘Are Mormon’s Christian?” thread?
Although this one attempts to spin itself a little differently.
Right, and some guy with his head buried in his hat looking at a piece of agate translated fictional gold plates about a fictiional group of people.
The truth is paragon pretender, the Christian denominations are not confused - we believe in the Trinity - not in pagan polytheism.
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