Posted on 04/20/2010 7:56:29 PM PDT by delacoert
VATICAN CITY, JULY 17, 2001 (Zenit.org).- Prompted by questions about Mormon practices, the Vatican recently confirmed that the sect´s baptism is invalid.
Last month the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith noted the invalidity of the Mormons´ baptism given their misconception of the Trinity and, consequently, the identity of Christ.
Father Luis Ladaria, a theologian at the Pontifical Gregorian University, explained today in L´Osservatore Romano the Church´s view about Mormon baptism.
"The baptism of the Catholic Church and that of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," the theologian said, "differ essentially as regards faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in whose name baptism is conferred and, at the same time, in regard to Christ, who instituted it."
Father Ladaria pointed out that even non-Catholics can administer baptism validly, as the minister of the sacrament is, in fact, Christ himself. But the baptizer must do so in the name of the Trinity and "with the intention of doing what the Church does," he added.
Joseph Smith founded the Mormons in New York state in 1830. He was inspired to find the place were golden tablets were placed, which expressed the revelations of the prophet Mormon, written by him and his son Moroni. Mormonism is a "sacred history" rewritten in America, in which God revealed the "latter-day saints."
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith´s response is based on research requested by the U.S. bishops.
Father Ladaria said the formula used by the Mormons for baptism states that, "having received Christ´s mandate, I baptize you in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."
But there is no real invocation of the Trinity, the theologian said, because, for the Mormons, the "Father," "Son" and "Holy Spirit" are not the three persons in which the one divinity subsists, but three gods who form a divinity.
The term divinity itself has no "substantial" content, because, according to this Mormon concept, divinity has come into existence given that the three gods have decided to unite and form the divinity to bring about the salvation of man. This divinity and man share the same nature and are "substantially the same," according to Mormon belief.
Such divergence in doctrine implies, Father Landaria said, that the Mormon minister does not have the intention, when baptizing, of doing what the Catholic Church does when it confers baptism.
bttt
Doesn’t it follow that if anyone can baptize under the Trinitarian formula then you don’t need a priesthood or Apostolic succession?
This would look like a major victory for Protestantism which in the main rejects baptism as a necessary ordinance. Is it still a necessary ordinance for the Catholic Church?
Doesn’t it follow that if anyone can baptize under the Trinitarian formula then you don’t need a priesthood or Apostolic succession?Why? In the natural world, anyone can apply a bandage, does that make us all doctors? Our Lord gave us instructions, some of us can do many things, some of us have a more restricted ministry.
OOOOooh, I LIKE that answer!
Inspiration happens. Credit the Boss.
Most Christians, be they Roman Catholic or (standard) Protestent (NOT Mormon), tend to have modalistic assumptions about God; the errors relating to modalism seem to be the most common.
Of course since actually grasping the truth of God as one Being in three Persons, is seemingly impossible, the best thing to do is NOT to try to figure it all out, rather to fall down and worship...
Why? In the natural world, anyone can apply a bandage, does that make us all doctors?
I don't know the Catholic doctrine, this is why I asked. So baptism is limited to anyone using the Trinitarian formula. What can not be performed by lay people?
So baptism is limited to anyone using the Trinitarian formula.No, it is more limited - for a complete exploration of the subject, see Baptism
At the outset we think it advisable to give two documents which express clearly the mind of the Church on the subject of baptism. They are valuable, also, as containing a summary of the main points to be considered in the treatment of this important matter. Baptism is defined positively in the one and negatively in the other.In Catholic teaching, Baptism is one of the Seven Sacraments (outward signs of inward grace, instituted by Christ for our sanctification) that Our Lord gave us. All require the correct intent, matter and form. All require the ability to form that correct intent so I doubt that an idiot, incompetent or child can be an extraordinary minister of the Sacrament of Baptism.
I am trying to understand the evolving Catholic doctrine on this. One of its strengths is the priesthood. Isn’t the purpose of Apostolic Succession keeping the authority to act in God’s name? Isn’t the priesthood essential to that?
So which of the Seven Sacraments can lay people perform given the correct intent, matter and form?
What is your interest? What faith community do you belong to?
Casual observer. I am not interested in bashing Catholics. I like them. I am just trying to understand this given what I thought I knew about Catholicism.
What faith community do you belong to?
Thanks for the commentary Herr Goebbels
Non-Catholic, but Christian. I know you think I am looking to bash you as a Catholic, but I am not. I just pinged you because you had the post. If you don’t want to answer the question I can try another Catholic FReeper. That would be OK with me and no hard feelings. Or we can FReepmail to keep the answer private. I am not anti-Catholic at all. I like Catholics, but I am simply curious. I had thought that Apostolic Succession and the priesthood were two fundamental tenets of Catholicism.
If you will answer it then I’d like to know - Can any layperson perform the Seven Sacraments given the correct intent, matter and form?
Where I am going with this is that if anybody can do it, what value is the Catholic priesthood?
“Can any layperson perform the Seven Sacraments given the correct intent, matter and form?”
Nope. Baptism and Marriage and I think Confession are Sacraments that can be performed absent the Priesthood, under extraordinary circumstances, Extreme Unction, Holy Orders, Confirmation and the Holy Eucharist are reserved to those who have themselves been Ordained, either to the Priesthood or the fullness of the Episcopacy.
” I know you think I am looking to bash you as a Catholic, but I am not. “
Not at all, simply trying to get enough data to answer well.
And Holy Orders is Ordination, right? When would you have an extraordinary circumstance permitting marriage? I can see for baptism and confession (death bed?).
“Non-Catholic, but Christian.”
Mormon?
Very funny. I just put in non-Catholic so you wouldn’t think that I didn’t think Catholics are Christians, as opposed to Papist or Mary worshippers or something.
I don’t like the religion threads very much. Too much fierce orthodoxy. I presume a person believes what they believe because they thought it out. I like and support the concept of respect for conscience. Too many FReepers look to bash and fight about fundamental beliefs. Most religious conservatives I know came to their beliefs thoughtfully. I don’t see many conversions, just a lot of recriminations and bad feelings.
I don’t go to the Religion forum much any more. I just check the latest posts and this one was interesting. I had been under the impression that the Catholic Church guarded the priesthood pretty jealously. What surprised me was when the article indicated that anyone could perform the baptism. That was really shocking, given what I thought I understood about the Catholic faith.
I looked up holy orders myself. So Apostolic Succession still holds for that authority, no?
Thanks for the clarification on the other items. I’ll check your reply later on. Good night.
So what sect are you? Mormon? Trinitarian? Unitarian?
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