Posted on 04/18/2010 6:47:04 PM PDT by Salvation
It is undoubtedly the doctrine of Scripture that Christ is the only foundation [of the Church]: "other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ" (1 Cor 3:11). Yet we must remember that the same metaphor may be used to illustrate different truths, and so, according to circumstances, may have different significations. The same Paul who has called Christ the only foundation, tells his Ephesian converts (2:20):--"Ye are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner-stone." And in like manner we read (Rev 21:14) :--"The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the names of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb." How is it that there can be no other foundation but Christ, and yet that the Apostles are spoken of as foundations? Plainly because the metaphor is used with different applications. Christ alone is that foundation, from being joined to which the whole building of the Church derives its unity and stability, and gains strength to defy all the assaults of hell. But, in the same manner as any human institution is said to be founded by those men to whom it owes its origin, so we may call those men the foundation of the Church whom God honoured by using them as His instruments in the establishment of it; who were themselves laid as the first living stones in that holy temple, and on whom the other stones of that temple were laid; for it was on their testimony that others received the truth, so that our faith rests on theirs; and (humanly speaking) it is because they believed that we believe. So, again, in like manner, we are forbidden to call anyone on earth our Father, "for one is our Father which is in heaven." And yet, in another sense, Paul did not scruple to call himself the spiritual father of those whom he had begotten in the Gospel. You see, then, that the fact that Christ is called the rock, and that on Him the Church is built, is no hindrance to Peter's also being, in a different sense, called rock, and being said to be the foundation of the Church; so that I consider there is no ground for the fear entertained by some, in ancient and in modern times, that, by applying the words personally to Peter, we should infringe on the honour due to Christ alone. [7]
A. Biblical study: Peter the man, the apostle, the rock: What is his place in the teachings of Jesus and in the New Testament?2. The Primacy of Peter in the Early Church
B. Historical study: Did Peter travel to Rome, oversee the Church as bishop, and die a martyr's death in the city of Rome?
A. Earliest document study: The primacy of Rome in the earliest non-canonical writings of the Church, authored by Clement of Rome and Ignatius of Antioch.Certainly, it is not possible to compile every passage from the Fathers that pertains to the study of Peter and the primacy. This is true, first of all, because such passages are too abundant and, secondly, because many times the primacy is not demonstrated by written teachings per se, but by the actions of the Fathers in particular historical situations. Some Fathers write of the Petrine primacy and later change their stance as they move away from orthodoxy or from a literal understanding of Scripture or when they enter into a personal conflict with the bishop of Rome. Lately, several books have come out that are hostile to the Catholic Church's teaching on papal primacy (we will discuss these books in the course of our study). A perusal of these books shows that their inability to deal fairly with the issue stems from their tendency to "proof-text", by which they point out things that seem to support their contentions and ignore everything that does not.
B. Early Church study: Peter and the primacy of Rome taught and practiced throughout the first five centuries.
Scripture
**The same Paul who has called Christ the only foundation, tells his Ephesian converts (2:20):—”Ye are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner-stone.” **
From the author — a former Baptist, BTW.
**Paul did not scruple to call himself the spiritual father of those whom he had begotten in the Gospel. You see, then, that the fact that Christ is called the rock, and that on Him the Church is built, is no hindrance to Peter’s also being, in a different sense, called rock, and being said to be the foundation of the Church; so that I consider there is no ground for the fear entertained by some, in ancient and in modern times, that, by applying the words personally to Peter, we should infringe on the honour due to Christ alone. [7]**
Of course I believe Scripture. Of course I claim the Apostles as my forefathers. But my home is not in Rome; it’s in heaven. Christ is supreme, my Savior, my Lord, my Counselor, my comfort.
Rome is irrelevant. It’s all about Christ, and the faith he promoted through His close friends, the Apostles.
Yes, of course Peter was an important Apostle. Through Peter many were — and are — blessed.
But my foundation is Christ. Not Rome.
Please read #22 again. Paul didn’t scruple with that and neither do Catholics.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2495772/posts?page=22#22
The “rock” was Christ according to what Peter wrote. (1 Peter chapter 2) and those he wrote to were “living stones”.
See post 22.
The pope is not a monarch.
I doubt if you’ll receive a substantive answer to your challenge about the primacy of Peter, just recycled verses viewed with the Roman Catholic interpretations and according to their “later” traditions. The reason the Roman Catholic views are not refuted in the church fathers is because they did not exist. People don’t usually attack/refute non-existent doctrines/teachings.
Though Peter shared a testimony of God choosing the Gentiles in Acts 15, it was James (Jesus’ half brother) who was the leader of the Jerusalem church and made the decision for the council in verses 19 and 20, which was supported and sent forth as the decision of “The apostles and elders and brethren” in verse 23.
Actually, at a later date Paul had to rebuke Peter for hypocrisy because his behavior was influenced by concern over James’ opinion rather that the “truth” of the gospel, pointing out the lack of primacy in Peter’s relationship with both James and Paul (Galatians 2).
Mine, too, and the pope’s.
1 [1-10] Paul's second journey to Jerusalem, according to Galatians, involved a private meeting with those of repute (Gal 2:2). At issue was a Gentile, Titus, and the question of circumcision, which false brothers (Gal 2:4) evidently demanded for him. Paul insists that the gospel he preaches (Gal 2:2; cf Gal 1:9, 11) remained intact with no addition by those of repute (Gal 2:6); that Titus was not compelled to accept circumcision (Gal 2:3); and that he and the reputed pillars in Jerusalem agreed on how each would advance the missionary task (Gal 1:7-10). Usually, Gal 1:1-10 is equated with the "Council of Jerusalem," as it is called, described in Acts 15. See the notes on Acts 15:6-12, 13-35, the latter concerning the "decree" that Paul does not mention.
2 [1] After fourteen years: thirteen or more years, probably reckoned from the return to Syria and Cilicia (Gal 1:21), though possibly from Paul's calling as a Christian (Gal 1:15). Barnabas: cf Gal 2:9, 13; 1 Cor 9:6. A Jewish Christian missionary, with whom Paul worked (Acts 4:36-37; 11:22, 25, 30; 12:25; 13:1-3; 15:2). Titus: a missionary companion of Paul (2 Cor 2:13; 7:6, 13-15; 8:6, 16, 23; 12:18), non-Jewish (Gal 2:3), never mentioned in Acts.
3 [2] A revelation: cf Gal 1:1, 12. Paul emphasizes it was God's will, not Jerusalem authority, that led to the journey. Acts 15:2 states that the church in Antioch appointed Paul and Barnabas for the task. Those of repute: leaders of the Jerusalem church; the term, while positive, may be slightly ironic (cf Gal 1:6, 9). Run, in vain: while Paul presents a positive picture in what follows, his missionary work in Galatia would have been to no purpose if his opponents were correct that circumcision is needed for complete faith in Christ.
4 [3] Not even a Gentile Christian like Titus was compelled to receive the rite of circumcision. The Greek text could be interpreted that he voluntarily accepted circumcision, but this is unlikely in the overall argument.
5 [4] False brothers: Jewish Christians who took the position that Gentile Christians must first become Jews through circumcision and observance of the Mosaic law in order to become Christians; cf Acts 15:1.
6 [5] The truth of the gospel: the true gospel, in contrast to the false one of the opponents (Gal 1:6-9); the gospel of grace, used as a norm (Gal 2:14).
7 [7-9] Some think that actual "minutes" of the meeting are here quoted. Paul's apostleship to the Gentiles (Gal 1:16) is recognized alongside that of Peter to the Jews. Moreover, the right to proclaim the gospel without requiring circumcision and the Jewish law is sealed by a handshake. That Paul and colleagues should go to the Gentiles did not exclude his preaching to the Jews as well (Romans 1:13-16) or Cephas to Gentile areas.
8 [9] James and Cephas and John: see the notes on Gal 1:18, 19; on Peter and John as leaders in the Jerusalem church, cf Acts 3:1 and Acts 8:14. The order here, with James first, may reflect his prominence in Jerusalem after Peter (Kephas) departed (Acts 12:17).
9 [10] The poor: Jerusalem Christians or a group within the church there (cf Romans 15:26). The collection for them was extremely important in Paul's thought and labor (cf Romans 15:25-28; 1 Cor 16:1-4; 2 Cor 8-9).
10 [11-14] The decision reached in Jerusalem (Gal 2:3-7) recognized the freedom of Gentile Christians from the Jewish law. But the problem of table fellowship between Jewish Christians, who possibly still kept kosher food regulations, and Gentile believers was not yet settled. When Cephas first came to the racially mixed community of Jewish and Gentile Christians in Antioch (Gal 2:12), he ate with non-Jews. Pressure from persons arriving later from Jerusalem caused him and Barnabas to draw back. Paul therefore publicly rebuked Peter's inconsistency toward the gospel (Gal 2:14). Some think that what Paul said on that occasion extends through Gal 2:16, 21.
11 [11] Clearly was wrong: literally, "stood condemned," by himself and also by Paul. His action in breaking table fellowship was especially grievous if the eating involved the meal at the Lord's supper (cf 1 Cor 11:17-25).
12 [12] Some people came from James: strict Jewish Christians (cf Acts 15:1, 5; 21:20-21), either sent by James (Gal 1:19; 2:9) or claiming to be from the leader of the Jerusalem church. The circumcised: presumably Jewish Christians, not Jews.
13 [13] The Jews: Jewish Christians, like Barnabas. Hypocrisy: literally, "pretense," "play-acting"; moral insincerity.
14 [14] Compel the Gentiles to live like Jews: that is, conform to Jewish practices, such as circumcision (Gal 2:3-5) or regulations about food (Gal 2:12).
15 [15-21] Following on the series of incidents cited above, Paul's argument, whether spoken to Cephas at Antioch or only now articulated, is pertinent to the Galatian situation, where believers were having themselves circumcised (Gal 6:12-13) and obeying other aspects of Jewish law (Gal 4:9-10; 5:1-4). He insists that salvation is by faith in Christ, not by works of the law. His teaching on the gospel concerns justification by faith (Gal 2:16) in relation to sin (Gal 2:17), law (Gal 2:19), life in Christ (Gal 2:19-20), and grace (Gal 2:21).
16 [16] No one will be justified: Psalm 143:2 is reflected.
17 [17] A minister of sin: literally, "a servant of sin" (cf Romans 15:8), an agent of sin, one who promotes it. This is possibly a claim by opponents that justification on the basis of faith in Christ makes Christ an abettor of sin when Christians are found to be sinners. Paul denies the conclusion (cf Romans 6:1-4).
18 [18] To return to observance of the law as the means to salvation would entangle one not only in inevitable transgressions of it but also in the admission that it was wrong to have abandoned the law in the first place.
19 [19] Through the law I died to the law: this is variously explained: the law revealed sin (Romans 7:7-9) and led to death and then to belief in Christ; or, the law itself brought the insight that law cannot justify (Gal 2:16; Psalm 143:2); or, the "law of Christ" (Gal 6:2) led to abandoning the Mosaic law; or, the law put Christ to death (cf Gal 3:13) and so provided a way to our salvation, through baptism into Christ, through which we die (crucified with Christ; see Romans 6:6). Cf also Gal 3:19-25 on the role of the law in reference to salvation.
Did you have a point you wanted to make?
Forgive my density, but I assume you mean my first post is “my own personal interpretation of Scripture” (if so, I got that part).
If that is not correct, please clarify.
My question to you, is did you want to make a point from the text/footnotes you posted? If you are accepting the “Catholic footnotes” from the NAB (a Catholic translation) as the word of God, you are just making the point of my post.
If you wanted to “focus” on some of the material in the text/footnotes for discussion that would be helpful.
Facts are facts. You might not like them, or find them unpalatable, but they are still there.
I was a protestant but I jumped over when I realised I was wrong about the facts of the early church.
I realise that others disagree and that is fine with me. You don’t have to answer to me, you answer to God himself.
“The reason the Roman Catholic views are not refuted in the church fathers is because they did not exist.”
Actually, they affirm the view that Peter was primary. Scripture does too, as Christ’s words are issued not to Paul, James, John or any of the other disciples.
“Blessed are you, Simon Peter, for this was not revealed to you by men, but by your Father in Heaven.”
**The quickest way to achieve jurisdictional or doctrinal victory is to subvert or disarm the opponent. In this case it would have been as simple as proving from the Bible or from tradition that Peter, and subsequently his successors in Rome, had no primacy, no authority to rule in the Church. Yet, as even Webster freely admits, this refutation never occurred.**
Comments, anyone?
You’re free to follow Christ as you see fit.
I answer to God this way: Christ is my Savior. If you find fault with that, I don’t care. You are fine to look to Rome for your salvation. Christ is my Savior, and I am eternally grateful to Him.
As I’ve said before, I don’t have a problem with Roman Catholics, as long as they promote Christ. But once they start promoting their denomination over Christ — that’s where I have the problem. If you magnify Jesus Christ, as a Roman Catholic believer, that’s wonderful. If you diminish my faith in Jesus because I follow Him, or diminish Jesus by exalting Rome, then that’s problematic.
FWIW, I consider myself “Catholic.” I’m a member of the Church Universal. But I am not a “Roman Catholic.” I am a member of the Church that Christ founded, and which He considers His Bride. I consider Heaven my home; I do not consider Rome my home, though I have personally visited it and think it’s pretty, and has a long history.
“Salvation” — please, for God’s sake, exalt Jesus. Let your denomination diminish, and Jesus increase. For God’s sake put to death your pride and promote Jesus above all.
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