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To: reaganaut
Define the LDS view of ‘salvation’, and are other rites/works at ALL required to enter the presence of God according to the LDS? _________________________________________________________

Of course rites are required to enter the presence of God. Who not being baptized by water can enter into Heaven. Who not being baptized by fire (The Holy Ghost) can enter into God's presence?

James says "show me your works and I will show you your faith" and "faith without works is dead". There is nothing wrong with works. I would be one who would have a hard time believing in a deathbed confession of faith in The Lord. Fortunately I am not the judge. I however think it wise to show your faith by works before the day of your death.

78 posted on 03/16/2010 12:44:01 PM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: JAKraig
Of course rites are required to enter the presence of God. Who not being baptized by water can enter into Heaven.

Rites are an external symbol of an internal event. The latter is necessary for salvation. The former we do by the command of God as a testament to the world, our bretheren, and our own souls. If this were not so, how is it that the thief beside Christ on the cross was able to enter into glory?

"Then he [the thief] said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”"

Luke 23:41

Who not being baptized by fire (The Holy Ghost) can enter into God's presence?

No ritual is needed for God to provide the Holy Ghost to the repentant soul.

James says "show me your works and I will show you your faith" and "faith without works is dead".

The point being that true faith will bring forth works of its own accord, and that "faith" that does not do this is dead. Salvation is in faith alone (see especially Rom. 3).

125 posted on 03/16/2010 1:35:09 PM PDT by SeƱor Zorro ("The ability to speak does not make you intelligent"--Qui-Gon Jinn)
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To: JAKraig; reaganaut
I would be one who would have a hard time believing in a deathbed confession of faith in The Lord.

Jesus didn't have any trouble with it with the thief on the cross. You know, the one who was mocking Him initially and then had a change of heart.

Why should you?

132 posted on 03/16/2010 1:41:31 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: JAKraig

LOL. you are incorrect. Baptism by water is not necesarrily a requirement and Baptism by fire is not an ordinance.

And you use the same argument as the LDS do about works being required according to James, but that is a misreading of James.

The context of James shows that his concern, re: works, was about love and how certain Christians were elevating the wealthy in their local church and ignoring the poor. James agrees with common modern Christian view that Christians do good works BECAUSE we are saved, not IN ORDER to be saved.

Deathbed confessions? What about the thief on the cross. No time for baptism, no time for works. He just believed.

If works are required, IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM, then it is not Salvation by Grace. If you are required to do ANY work, then you are liable to keep the whole law (Romans).


133 posted on 03/16/2010 1:42:16 PM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: JAKraig
Of course rites are required to enter the presence of God.

Oh??

Then why can't ANY Mormon 'rites' that are performed in the Temples, be found in ANY Mormon SCRIPTURE?

262 posted on 03/16/2010 6:55:09 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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