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A Protestant Discovers Mary
NC Register ^ | March 13, 2010

Posted on 03/14/2010 12:14:46 PM PDT by NYer

Romano Guardini wrote in his book on the Rosary, “To linger in the domain of Mary is a divinely great thing. One does not ask about the utility of truly noble things, because they have their meaning within themselves. So it is of infinite meaning to draw a deep breath of this purity, to be secure in the peace of this union with God.”

Guardini was speaking of spending time with Mary in praying the Rosary, but David Mills, in his latest book, Discovering Mary, helps us linger in the domain of Mary by opening up to us the riches of divine revelation, both from tradition and Scripture. Mills, a convert from the Episcopal Church, former editor of the Christian journal Touchstone and editor of the 1998 book of essays commemorating the centennial of C.S. Lewis’ birth The Pilgrim’s Guide: C. S. Lewis and the Art of Witness, as well as the author of Knowing the Real Jesus (2001), has written a rock-solid introduction to the Blessed Virgin Mary, and done so with intellectual rigor and an affable tone.

His book begins with an introduction in which he describes how he came to discover the riches of the Church’s teachings on Mary: “I began to see how a sacred vessel is made holy by the sacred thing it carries,” he writes. “I began to feel this in a way I had not before. I found myself developing an experiential understanding of Mary and indeed a Marian devotion. Which surprised me. It surprised me a lot.”

Unfortunately, he notes, he did not learn about Mary from contemporary Catholics, nor in homilies, “even on Marian feast days.” It seems he learned on his own by reading magisterial documents and going back to Scriptures in light of those documents.

This book shares the fruit of that study. Mills examines the life of Mary, Mary in the Bible, Mary in Catholic doctrine, Marian feast days and the names of Mary. He includes an appendix full of references to papal documents and books on Mary.

Most of the book is done in a question-and-answer format, which usually works well, although at times it feels awkward. Would someone really ask, for instance, “What is happening in the liturgy on the Marian feast days?”

But most of the questions are natural. “What is the point of Marian devotion?” Mills asks. It is “to live the Catholic life as well as we can,” he answers. “This means going ever more deeply into the mystery of Christ, to become saintlier, more conformed to his image, by following Mary’s example and by turning to her for help and comfort.”

Next question: “Does devotion to Mary detract from our devotion to Christ?”

“Christians since the beginning of serious Marian devotion have been careful to emphasize Mary’s subordination to her son,” Mills replies. “In fact, they have said it so often that the reader begins to expect it. In the fifth century St. Ambrose put it nicely: ‘Mary was the temple of God, not the god of the temple.’”

David Mills, with the same radical clarity he showed in Knowing the Real Jesus, has written what has to be one of the best, if not the very best, short introductions to Catholic teaching on Mary, the Mother of God. Discovering Mary is ideal for those wanting to know more about her, whether they be skeptics, Protestants, or Catholics who don’t know the Mother of the Church well enough.

Franklin Freeman writes from Saco, Maine.


DISCOVERING MARY

Answers to Questions About the Mother of God

By David Mills

Servant Books, 2009

148 pages, $12.99

To order: servantbooks.org


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: loony; loopy; sad; silly
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To: Quix

And wow, that’s a lot. I knew there were many but I didn’t realize there were *that* many. Aie-yaah and I didn’t even put all the ones there are on that list, I only took from the first few links.


421 posted on 03/16/2010 9:00:04 PM PDT by Outership (Looking for a line by line Book of Revelation Bible study? http://tiny.cc/rPSQc)
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To: Outership

I have a picture of Quix but don’t bow and worship at his feet or call him blessed...LOL. He’s a precious brother in Christ to many of us.


422 posted on 03/16/2010 9:03:56 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: Marysecretary

Actually, if you read what the apparitions supposedly say, none of them are against God. They are always pointing to Jesus Christ, our Lord, savior and God, the Son of God and born of mary


423 posted on 03/16/2010 9:09:18 PM PDT by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: Marysecretary

I don’t and the Church doesn’t consider the apparitions as a testiment for The Faith, but these are not satanic — if they were, then Satan would be properly directing people away from God, instead of towards Him.


424 posted on 03/16/2010 9:10:41 PM PDT by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: Quix

Haha, you a fool? They couldn’t possibly really believe that. And thank you very much for your kind stewardship, that very thing I feel for you as well.

I think you are right on their dirth, and it is pitiful.

You know though, I did get an idea from them. A potter is not that far off from a sculptor. Wouldn’t it be cool if you did make a statue of yourself? I’d make one of me if I had the means. It’d be a hoot! Something small enough to put on a table, and not a bust but a full statue. A pose with my sword and in a sword stance, and maybe while wearing my armor, ooh and a cape! What would your pose be? Or maybe.. a real GIANT one! Like the statues in Egypt. Why not? Who wouldn’t want a huge statue of themself? Or you can even go far out and make one that is just a huge head and stick it in the corner of a room! Haha wow wouldn’t that sure make a conversation. “What is that? A big head? What’s it doing there?”


425 posted on 03/16/2010 9:32:35 PM PDT by Outership (Looking for a line by line Book of Revelation Bible study? http://tiny.cc/rPSQc)
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To: Cronos; Marysecretary
Actually, if you read what the apparitions supposedly say, none of them are against God. They are always pointing to Jesus Christ, our Lord, savior and God, the Son of God and born of mary

Just for giggles, and for the edification of other readers, here is the text of the three prophecies of Fatima:

The first secret was a vision of Hell:

Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.[5]

The second half requests that Russia be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart:

You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light*, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.[6]

The text of the Third Secret was published on 26 June 2000:

The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fátima, on 13 July 1917.

I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.

After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: 'Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White 'we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.

Wikipedia: "Three Secrets of Fatima" (as Src)

Further reading from the Vatican.

It seems the promises within these prophecies point to "triumphant Mary," and not toward God at all. In fact, it is this stunning departure from The Prophecy which causes it to be questionable (to be kind).

426 posted on 03/16/2010 9:51:16 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit)
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To: roamer_1

Yep. I pray fervently that God opens the eyes of our dear Catholic friends who have been taken in by this deception.


427 posted on 03/16/2010 10:06:53 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
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To: betty boop; Marysecretary; Quix; stfassisi; Mad Dawg
Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!

I have never knowingly had a conversation with an angel, though I do not doubt that I have had such conversations unknowingly.

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. - Hebrews 13:2

But if any such angel or apparition appeared, the very first thing I would do is ask "Who is Christ?"

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. – I Cor 12:3

Edgar Cayce claimed to have been visited by such a being who told him that Jesus was not Lord. After that visit, Cayce turned against his Christian upbringing. If it had happened to me, I would have told the creature to leave at once.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. - James 4:7

Christians have no reason to fear any such creature.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. – Romans 8:38-39

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. – John 10:3-5

To God be the glory!

428 posted on 03/16/2010 10:07:31 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop
Even physicists complain that our notions of time are beginning to limit further progress in their field. One time dimension does not seem to be enough.

Indeed. Thank you for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!

429 posted on 03/16/2010 10:11:14 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop
They're a funny bunch, those crazy atheists.... Not quite firing on all cylinders, if you ask me.... If they are "offended" by your Church community, it's because the simple fact that you are gathering in God's Name refutes their claim of His non-existence. They will not forgive you for this.

LOLOL!

Thank you so much for your wonderfully insightful essay-post, dearest sister in Christ!

430 posted on 03/16/2010 10:13:39 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Outership
Thank you for sharing your concerns, dear Outership!
431 posted on 03/16/2010 10:14:46 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop
Thank you so much for your encouragements, dearest sister in Christ!
432 posted on 03/16/2010 10:15:41 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: roamer_1; Marysecretary

“I write in obedience to you, my God”, “Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God” —> directed to God


433 posted on 03/16/2010 10:58:10 PM PDT by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: wmfights; Titanites
And you repeat YOPIOS despite the facts like:

FACT: St. Ambrose WAS born into a Christian family --> look it up for yourself.

FACT: yes, he wasn't baptised as an infant, because that was not widespread in the 3rd century until St. Augustine

FACT: You misunderstood that to say that "Not surprising coming from a man who went from being a pagan to a Bishop in your church in about 2 weeks time"

Now that is a common sola interpretura error which also plays out in the sola's folks's reading of The Bible -- you folks may read one thing like " St Ambrose was baptized, " and ASSUME that he was born a pagan. That error comes from not having a complete knowledge and presuming that the incomplete knowledge is complete -- you didn't lie, but you made an incorrect assumption based on incomplete and misunderstood facts. That is the folly of relying on an individuals (as opposed to a community of believers stretching back 2000 years) interpretation.
434 posted on 03/16/2010 11:00:47 PM PDT by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: wmfights; Titanites
And, you used your own interpretation to make "Ambrose was baptised as an adult" to being that he was a pagan when he was actually born into a Christian family and was Christian

You are a baptist -- you do not baptise infants, but baptise adults -- so do you then say that those before baptism are pagans?
435 posted on 03/16/2010 11:02:07 PM PDT by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: NYer

I have not read thru the comments on this thread, but I have read the original posting. The author is not a protestant, he is a convert to Roman Catholicism. It seems he was Angelican, and this reach for him is not far. It is interesting that he got there thru Scripture, rather than Church teaching.

My take...Jesus is the Son of God, He is God, He is my Lord. I do not need a meadiator, He is my mediator. And He sent the Holy Spirit to indwell me. Yes, Mary was used by God to bring Jesus to earth, born of the flesh and born of God. He is established through this as ‘son of David’. His genealogy is also important, and includes three women, two of whom were not Israelites.

My point - Jesus is my Lord and my Savior. The Holy Spirit, another Comforter sent, is my indwelling guide. I do not need intermediaries. I understand my Catholic friends, and know that some of them feel otherwise. We even have some Rosary Beads here in our home, left by a close Catholic relative. I am ok with that. That person had a close personal relationship with our Lord, and I had the privilege of sharing a word relating to him in a Catholic Church at his funeral.


436 posted on 03/16/2010 11:37:13 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a tea party descendant - steeped in the Constitutional legacy handed down by the Founders)
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To: wmfights; Cronos
Paul Johnson, "A History of Christianity".

The claim that Ambrose was a pagan was yours, not Paul Johnson's. You can quote Johnson all you want, but it still doesn't show that St. Ambrose was a pagan before he was baptised.

The sola scriptura crowd can't get history straight and then they wonder why we don't believe their interpretation of scripture. Go figure.

437 posted on 03/17/2010 12:39:29 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: All

off topic

http://www.snopes.com/computer/virus/youtube.asp

THERE IS A VIRUS SPREADING LIKE WILDFIRE ON FaceBook. DO NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING THAT ASKs YOU TO WATCH A VIDEO ON YOUTUBE. SNOPES JUST CONFIRMED. IT IS A TROJAN WORM VIRUS. IT WILL STEAL INFO, INFEST YOUR SYSTEM AND SHUT IT DOWN. DO NOT OPEN THE LINK.


438 posted on 03/17/2010 12:41:13 AM PDT by Joya (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior, have mercy on me, a sinner!)
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To: Cronos; wmfights
You are a baptist -- you do not baptise infants, but baptise adults -- so do you then say that those before baptism are pagans?

You know the sola scriptura crowds rules, Cronos. You can jump to that conclusion only if it is in reference to Catholics.

439 posted on 03/17/2010 12:44:41 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: Titanites; wmfights
Sola Scriptura sola interpretura is about "I","I","I" -- no sense of community or of God.

If one Baptist says "aha -- it was written that St Ambrose was baptised as an adult it must mean that he was a pagan" -- which is ok as an initial error.

But to repeat this thrice shows the error of sola scriptura -- it then means "MY interpretation is correct, irrespective" -- even if it then means that the Baptist person concludes that all Baptists (and this is not my opinion, but the conclusion drawn from sola wmfights words) are pagan until they get baptised. That's crazytalk.
440 posted on 03/17/2010 3:16:34 AM PDT by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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