Posted on 03/10/2010 3:50:35 PM PST by NYer
Catholic ping!
Thank you for posting this!
I know that back when I was Lutheran I discovered that the LCMS used to include the Apocrypha their Bibles, when the Concordia Publishing House in St. Louis still printed the Bibles in German. When they switched to just English, the “extra” books were dropped. I NEVER heard anything mentioned about them in church growing up and they were never used in liturgy. Thank God I found the Orthodox Church and now see how we’ve impoverished our faith tradition in the West by being ignorant of these scriptures.
BTW, your links to the Orthodox Study Bible don’t seem to be working. You can find it at Conciliar Press.
http://www.conciliarpress.com/books/orthodox-study-bible
The fact that Jesus did not quote from any of the Apocrypha, but did quote from all the other OT books (except Song of Solomon) is one reason that I don’t accept the Apocrypha as inspired.
How about a reference to where Jesus said to write down what he was saying?
Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus’ statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.
Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus’ golden rule “do unto others” is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.
Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus’ statement “you will know them by their fruits” follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.
Matt. 9:36 - the people were “like sheep without a shepherd” is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.
Matt. 11:25 - Jesus’ description “Lord of heaven and earth” is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.
Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus’ reference to the “power of death” and “gates of Hades” references Wisdom 16:13.
Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.
Matt. 24:15 - the “desolating sacrilege” Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.
Matt. 24:16 - let those “flee to the mountains” is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.
Matt. 27:43 - if He is God’s Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.
Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus’ description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.
Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html
Man, you beat me to it by 10 seconds!
Is this true? When the NT quotes the Hebrew Bible, is the Greek used in the NT identical to the Septuagint, or did they translate directly from the Hebrew?
It’s an overgeneralization. Many quotations are like the Septuagint, others seem to be built directly on Hebrew, and still others’ source text hasn’t been identified yet.
The NT is quoting the Septuagint. The popular OT in use today is based on the Masoretic texts, i.e. a 9th century Jewish canon compiled largely in reaction to Christian claims that the Old Testament Scriptures belonged to the Church. Martin Luther accepted or deleted books, based on a 16th century misunderstanding. When he was translating the Old Testament into German, he mistakenly believed that the oldest source for the Old Testament would be in Hebrew, so he found and used the Masoretic Text. In other words, the true Christian canon (including the “missing books”) had been completed 400 years prior to the Masoretic canon.
It is used between the liturgy of Readings and the liturgy of Holy Baptism/Renewal of Baptismal Promises--the same place as the Litany of the Saints in the Roman rite.
I accept your list of quotes, however, I don’t see them as authoritative. Every quote you listed has a reference in the Protestant-accepted canon.
You may or may not know that many early Roman Catholic church fathers did not accept the Apocrypha.
I read the following about them: (but I have not read their original works so you can correct me if I’m wrong):
“Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, Athanasius, and the great Roman Catholic translator Jerome spoke out against the Apocrypha.
In 382 Bishop Damascus had Jerome (the greatest Bible scholar of the early Medieval period) work on a Latin text to standardize the Scripture. The resulting Vulgate was used throughout the Christian world though Jerome himself separated the Apocrypha from the rest. He stated the church reads them “for example and instruction of manners”, but does not “apply them to establish any doctrine”. More damning was his statement that “they exhibit no authority as Holy Scripture” (Preface to Vulgate Book of Solomon,) He initially refused to translate the apocrypha into Latin but later made a hasty translation of a few books.”
Augustine, a favorite of both the RC and Protestant churches, DID accept the Apocrypha, however.
Well, it’s been a centuries long debate but as you probably know the RC church did not even officially canonize the apocrypha until the Council of Trent in the 1500s. So for the majority of the life of the RC church, it was not especially recognized as authoritative.
Great post. Thanks.
“How about a reference to where Jesus said to write down what he was saying?”
Are you doubting that Jesus wanted the Bible written? Or that he wanted the Gospels written?
I don’t think you’d find any Roman Catholics or Protestants who’d agree with you on that one!
If we believe in the inspiration of Scripture - and we do - and we believe the gospels are inspired - and we do - then we naturally believe God wanted them written. Otherwise He would not have inspired them.
Paul in 1st Corinthians 15 seems to accept the gospel accounts of Jesus as scripture, as he says
-For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas [Peter], then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethen at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as it were to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.-
Interesting info BTTT
The apocrypha itself says there was no prophet in the land at the time of its writings.. All scripture is written by a prophet (one who speaks for God ).. So the apocrypha is not inspired scripture..it is as jerome placed it as good spiritual reading but no infallible.
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