Does JOB 40:41 speak about Dinosaurs?

Vanity | March 8th, 2010 | TaraP

[TaraP]

Job 40:15-24 Behemoth

15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares. http://www.answersincreation.org/job4041a.htm There is one certainty about Job 40-41…they are not dinosaurs that lived 6,000 years ago. With the possibilities presented, I leave it up to the reader to decide for themselves what the correct answer is. We probably won’t know for certain until we get to heaven.

What do I believe? I lean toward the dinosaur theory. You may say, “How can Bible writers, such as David in Psalm 74, write about a dinosaur if it lived 65 million years ago?” This is simple. There were certainly dinosaur fossils available in Bible times.

They are in the rocks now, so they must have been in the rocks then. David, and others, probably saw these fossils, and wrote about them (see Paleontology Pioneers and Aboriginal Dinosaurs?

Do you agree with this theory?

[James C. Bennett]

Long enough to need rest on the 7th.

[WhatNot]

God is eternal and does not change, the point of the Job verses is that this is a creature so massive and so fearful, that none but God dare approach it. The mention of God using His sword, is for man to understand just how powerful this beast is, not that God needs an actual sword to approch it. The sword in this verse is symbolic, just like when Jesus says He is the bread of life, that doesn’t mean He’s a loaf of bread. When Jesus says I am the door, that doesn’t mean He has hinges and a door knob, or when the Bible talks about under His wings we shall have refuge, it’s doesn’t mean that God is a big chicken, it’s symbolic wording to give us a better understanding of God using things we mere mortals are familar with.

[RedDogzRule]

“to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth”

I interpret this phrase to mean that the birds were needed in order to scatter plant seed around the earth. Not only do seeds get scattered by the wind, but also farther afield, due to birds eating and dropping seeds from the mouths and from their scat.

[RedDogzRule]

Genesis does state how long Adam lived (930 years). Eve is not mentioned, but each of Adams male descendants in the line all the way down to Noah, where the story then continues. (Gen. 5).

[Hostage]

It states how long he lived outside the Garden. It does not refer to his age since his creation. His mortal life was 930 but his immortal life is never mentioned in years.

So we cannot say that Adam was 930 from the time God created him. It is the time of his mortal life meaning his time outside the Garden.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

It’s symbolic wording and on that I agree. What the beast is is immaterial, as are most of the details contained in the Bible; it’s the story and meaning behind the details that matter.

But for someone now taking a “symbolic tack” you’re quite adamant about what the symbols mean, that it cannot be an elephant or hippo! Thus the question: if it’s not an elephant or hippo, what is it and what led you to that conclusion?

In the context of a 2000 BC Arab I’d say an elephant - something they would have never seen - would be a terrible beast beyond comprehension. Larger than the largest camel, ground shaking steps, massive in size and power. It’s good imagery for that, and if the largest game you had ever encountered were deer, mountain lions and the like you bet you’d be afraid to approach that thing with a sword...;)

[TaraP]

Welcome! :)

My question would be...Were they on earth before the Creation of Man? and what purpose did they serve?

I can’t ever imagine modern man living with Dinosaurs...

I was thinking (maybe out of the park,) is because of their large sizes they might of been able to firment the ground by walking on the earth?

[WhatNot]

There are two species of elephant that are at this time widespread - the Indian elephant throughout temperate Asia as far west as Syria and the African elephant in regions north and south of the Sahara. India is just the first region that elephants are tamed. They were not something Arabs had never seen.

Here is a link for a map of Syria

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/syria

[editor-surveyor]

I’ll try again.

An elephant’s tail is utterly incapable of moving like a cedar tree. It is capable of making curling movements, like a dogs tail, a snake, even a rope, but a tree? no.

A cedar remains fairly straight, and erect, bowing slightly about it’s base. If it bows very far it snaps.

[editor-surveyor]

"So, if something is cold like a block of ice, is it a block of ice?"

Lovely strawman; save it for haloween decorations.

[onedoug]

Scientifically? About 65 million years ago, while humans came on the scene probably no more than 3.5 million years ago.

Most of California, for example, was being fomed tectonically...under water, though is pretty fertile today, but for politics.

Religiously? Same essential argument but for God.

Susan M. Gaines, et al, Echoes of Life: What Fossil Molecules Reveal About Earth History. Pretty good book detailing, among other things, how molecules in crude oil have been traced back to the organisms that preceeded their incorporation into sediments.

[TaraP]

Interesting....

While the Bible Speaks of Israel the Middle East the rest of the world existed, what was happening say in the lands of California, Mexico, Antartica and New York could be factors of the Ancient World we are just starting now to understand......

[editor-surveyor]

"I can’t ever imagine modern man living with Dinosaurs"

The 'modern' men that lived with them didn't particularly like the idea either.

Alexander wrote of encountering huge reptiles that lived in caves in India, American indian cave drawings and paintings illustrate known dinosaurs, and men in combat with them, in England there is the story of St. George's victorious battle with one, and Historia Animalium, written in Europe in the 1500s listed as living species many of the known dino species, and there are many more written accounts of battles with reptiles matching known dinos all over the world.

All of these were before modern excavating equipment verified the existance of the animals they described.

[James C. Bennett]

Calling everything a strawman, as an excuse to evade the discussion, IS the ultimate strawman!

[OB1kNOb]

Job 40:15-24 Behemoth
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23

[onedoug]

I suspect that 65 million years ago the deposits that characterize much of the modern middle east were being laid down as well, under water. I need a little more research on the rock facies, but I think that’s a fair statement generally.

[editor-surveyor]

The discussion was in the post above the one you replied to.

You’re interested only in ‘discussion’ that leads to diversion from the clear statements in God’s word.

[TaraP]

I always though odd when they un-covered the La Brea Tar Pits in California..

The Page Museum is located at the Rancho La Brea Tar Pits in the heart of Los Angeles. Rancho La Brea is one of the world’s most famous fossil localities, recognized for having the largest and most diverse assemblage of extinct Ice Age plants and animals in the world.

Visitors can learn about Los Angeles as it was between 10,000 and 40,000 years ago, during the last Ice Age, when animals such as saber-toothed cats and mammoths roamed the Los Angeles Basin. Through windows at the Page Museum Laboratory, visitors can watch bones being cleaned and repaired. Outside the Museum, in Hancock Park, life-size replicas of several extinct mammals are featured.

Why in this part of the world?

Due to Seismic Activity?

[James C. Bennett]

"An elephant’s tail is utterly incapable of moving like a cedar tree. It is capable of making curling movements, like a dogs tail, a snake, even a rope, but a tree? no."

At that level of comparison, dinosaurs didn't have bones made of tubes of brass, either, thus contradicting the words in the verse.

[James C. Bennett]

There is nothing clear about that statement. It’s mere fantasy. Mythology.