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Weekly "Heart of the Matter" Show thread
Heart of the Matter on TV20 ^ | 2/16/10 | Shawn McCraney

Posted on 02/16/2010 6:58:55 PM PST by reaganaut

This is a thread for the live streaming of Heart of the Matter an outreach to the LDS. A link with the archive will be posted when it is up.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; bornagainmormon; christian; heartofthematter; lds; ministry; mormon; progressives; saltlakecity; shawnmccraney; tv; utah
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To: ejonesie22

Well, I am a slow one. LOL


141 posted on 02/18/2010 8:37:02 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Only twenty thirty times more and I got it to work.

http://www.jefflindsay.com/adam.shtml#eve

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=eac2ff3ff4c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=e36d5f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD


142 posted on 02/18/2010 8:38:10 AM PST by svcw (If you are going to quote the Bible know what you are quoting.)
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To: svcw

23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence
_______________________________________________________

Yeppers, having children really can cause one to be corrupted...

But HEY...

Adam and Eve did get kicked out of the Garden of Eden...

THank goodness it wasnt for something as evil as a married couple having a baby or two...

That multiply thingy ...God was kidding...


143 posted on 02/18/2010 8:40:49 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Vendome

Obviously I am even slower since I missed it all together...


144 posted on 02/18/2010 8:52:38 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

get over yourself!


145 posted on 02/18/2010 8:56:26 AM PST by restornu (Never never land is the last stop before outer darkness!)
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To: Saundra Duffy
I am washed in the Blood of the Lamb. Jesus Christ is everything to me. The Atonement. What a great Plan of Salvation. Hooray!!

Cheering on Christ? Or the mormon "plan of salvation"?

We read in modern revelation, “All kingdoms have a law given” (D&C 88:36). For example:

“He who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.

“And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.

“And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory” (D&C 88:22–24).

In other words, the kingdom of glory to which the Final Judgment assigns us is not determined by love but by the law that God has invoked in His plan to qualify us for eternal life, “the greatest of all the gifts of God”

Link

Photobucket

146 posted on 02/18/2010 9:12:29 AM PST by greyfoxx39 ("The Economy Is So Bad, Even 'Rosy Scenario' Lost Her Job"-Jim Geraghty)
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To: restornu; SZonian
Szonian says:
It was during this experience that I started to question what the church was really about. The ceremonies, (endowments, sealing) were quite “unique”. It was then that I started looking into the “oaths” and to see where I could find these ceremonies outlined in lds scripture. I was told that I was not to do that. The ceremonies were “sacred” and investigating further would only cause “confusion”.
I suspect that "looking into" the UNTRUTH of PRESBYTERIANism has caused some, shall we say, confusion as well.
147 posted on 02/18/2010 9:12:33 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39
...keep His commandments ...
 
 

 

Galatians 3

1. You foolish Galatians! MORMONs! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
2. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?

John 6

28. Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29. Jesus answered,
"The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

 

148 posted on 02/18/2010 9:19:18 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
Don’t preach to me...

Then perhaps you will answer a question:

Just what did Joseph Smith 'learn' that was UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism?

149 posted on 02/18/2010 9:20:50 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
...but some here do or try to instill doubt and fear which does not come from the Lord!
No!   I am SHOCKED!!  Truly SHOCKED!!!!!!!!

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
 

150 posted on 02/18/2010 9:22:40 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu

“get over yourself!

Got news for you girl, it has nothing whatsoever to
do with me, thankfully!

It is about Christ and Christ alone.

Your rejection of Him on this thread, when you
called His gift of Salvation by Grace and apart
from works “CREEPY” is between you and Him.

Since you indicated you reject His way and prefer
your own way, by works, it seems to me that you
would be the one that needs to get over yourself.

But then, you can run from Him, but you can never
hide, as Jonah learned.

best,
ampu


151 posted on 02/18/2010 9:23:01 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: restornu
...but some here do or try to instill doubt and fear which does not come from the Lord!But these things DID come from the mouths and minds of MORMON leaders.

I think you need to ask LDS MANAGEMENT some very pointed questions!


152 posted on 02/18/2010 9:23:42 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy
I am not ashamed of Him, my Savior.

Linking "shame" to "Savior" is IMO, quite strange.

153 posted on 02/18/2010 9:24:45 AM PST by greyfoxx39 ("The Economy Is So Bad, Even 'Rosy Scenario' Lost Her Job"-Jim Geraghty)
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To: svcw

Sorry about that. Don’t know why the links cam up as copy and paste instead of just a click!

(Maybe you ain’t doin’ it right! You creepy person, you!)

http://www.jefflindsay.com/adam.shtml#eve

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=eac2ff3ff4c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=e36d5f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD


154 posted on 02/18/2010 9:27:46 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: svcw
Only twenty thirty times more and I got it to work.

Yup; you gotta leave out ALL angle brackets!

155 posted on 02/18/2010 9:28:41 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Well, after 20 or 30 times I did figure it out.
But I am snarky not creepy.


156 posted on 02/18/2010 9:28:46 AM PST by svcw (If you are going to quote the Bible know what you are quoting.)
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To: restornu
get over yourself!

It's time for you post those Scriptures about LOVE you have stored.

157 posted on 02/18/2010 9:29:58 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
 
I am  NOT   creepy!!
 
 
 
 
AVATARD
 

158 posted on 02/18/2010 9:32:09 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie; restornu

In other words; they need to be REstored...


159 posted on 02/18/2010 9:33:09 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy
The Plan of Salvation? Jesus died for me. This was Heavenly Father’s plan. And the Holy Ghost seals it in my heart. Amen.

That is quite an oversimplification of the mormon church's most important promise. THIS is what is seen as "Salvation" in mormonism, direct from LDS.org

 

Messages from the Doctrine and Covenants:
The Three Degrees of Glory

B. Renato Maldonado, “Messages from the Doctrine and Covenants: The Three Degrees of Glory,” Ensign, Apr 2005, 62–65

More than any other book, the Doctrine and Covenants helps us understand the nature of life after death. The Savior taught, “In my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2). The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that “mansions” may be understood to mean “kingdoms”—those kingdoms in which we will dwell in the life after this. He said: “It should be—‘In my Father’s kingdom are many kingdoms,’ in order that ye may be heirs of God and joint-heirs with me. … There are mansions for those who obey a celestial law, and there are other mansions for those who come short of the law, every man in his own order.” 1

As scientific knowledge increases, it will become more evident that there is order in the universe and that all things are governed by harmonious and immutable laws. Perfect order exists in everything in nature from the nucleus of the atom to the immensity of space. This is true in spiritual things as well as temporal; therefore, blessings that are spiritual are also governed by spiritual laws. “There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven … , upon which all blessings are predicated—and when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated” (D&C 130:20–21).

In other words, there is a relationship between obedience and blessings. The Lord has said that we will be blessed and will live in a degree of glory in the next life according to the eternal laws we obey in mortality. “For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory” (D&C 88:22). The same holds true for the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms (see D&C 88:23–24).

As the Prophet Joseph Smith was laboring on what we now call the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible, he received a vision later recorded as Doctrine and Covenants section 76. Included in this revelation is a comparison of the three degrees of glory: the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial kingdoms. Following is a brief description of each.

The Celestial Kingdom

The Lord compared celestial glory to that of the sun, “even the glory of God, the highest of all” (D&C 76:70; see also D&C 76:96). Those who will inherit this kingdom must do the following:

• Receive a testimony of Jesus and believe on His name (see D&C 76:51).

• Be baptized by immersion (see D&C 76:51).

• Receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (see D&C 76:52).

• Obey the commandments and be washed and cleansed of all sins (see D&C 76:52).

• Overcome by faith (see D&C 76:53).

• Be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise (see D&C 76:53).

Those who qualify for the celestial kingdom will receive, among other blessings:

• Be of a company of angels, of the general assembly and church of Enoch and of the Firstborn (see D&C 76:54, 67).

• Receive the fulness, glory, and grace of the Father (see D&C 76:55, 56, 94).

• Be priests and kings of the Most High God (see D&C 76:56–59).

• Overcome all things (see D&C 76:60).

• Dwell forever in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76:62).

• Be with Christ at the time of His Second Coming (see D&C 76:63).

• Come forth in the First Resurrection (see D&C 76:64–65).

• Go up unto Mount Zion and unto the heavenly city of God (see D&C 76:66).

• Minister to terrestrial and telestial beings (see D&C 76:87–88).

• Be able to have offspring, or in other words, gain the right to become eternal parents (see D&C 131:4).

The Lord further revealed the important doctrines of salvation for the dead and salvation of little children in the celestial kingdom:

“All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

“Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom; …

“… All children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven” (D&C 137:7–8, 10). Except for those whose mental abilities prevent them from reaching the age of accountability (see D&C 29:50), the age of accountability is eight (see D&C 68:25).

We do not know much about who will inherit two of the three degrees within the celestial kingdom. However, much has been said about the highest level in the celestial kingdom, or exaltation, because that is where the Father wants all of His children to live (see Moses 1:39). The Doctrine and Covenants teaches that temple marriage is the key to obtaining exaltation:

“In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

“And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

“And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

“He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase” (D&C 131:1–4).

“If a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; … and if [they] abide in my covenant …

“Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting … because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them” (D&C 132:19–20).

The Terrestrial Kingdom

The Lord compared terrestrial glory to that of the moon (see D&C 76:97). It exceeds the telestial in all things (see D&C 76:91). Those who will inherit this kingdom are those who experienced one or more of the following circumstances:

• Died without law (see D&C 76:72).

• Were in spirit prison and received a testimony there but rejected the testimony of Jesus while on the earth (see D&C 76:73–74; see also D&C 138:32).

• Were honorable people who allowed themselves to be blinded by the craftiness of men (see D&C 76:75).

• Were not valiant in their testimonies of Jesus (see D&C 76:79).

Among other blessings and limitations, those who qualify for the terrestrial kingdom will:

• Come forth in the First Resurrection after celestial beings are resurrected. 2

• Receive of God’s glory but not His fulness (see D&C 76:76).

• Enjoy the presence of the Son but not the fulness of the Father (see D&C 76:77).

• Not be able to obtain a crown in the kingdom of God (see D&C 76:79).

• Be ministered to by celestial beings (see D&C 76:87).

The Telestial Kingdom

The Lord compared telestial glory to that of the stars (see D&C 76:81). Those who shall inherit this kingdom are those who:

• Rejected the gospel, the testimony of Jesus, the prophets, and the everlasting covenant (see D&C 76:82, 101).

• Were liars, sorcerers, adulterers, and whoremongers (see D&C 76:103).

• Loved “and [made] a lie” (D&C 76:103).

Among other blessings and limitations, those who inherit the telestial kingdom will:

• Suffer the wrath of God on earth (see D&C 76:104) and not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, which will take place after the Millennium (see D&C 76:85). 3

• Be denied the Savior’s fulness (see D&C 76:86).

• Be able to receive the Holy Ghost through the ministration of beings in higher glories (see D&C 76:86–88).

• Never be able to come where God and Christ dwell (see D&C 76:112).

I am grateful that the Lord revealed these eternal truths through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Such truths help us have a greater understanding of the plan of salvation and a stronger testimony of Jesus Christ. We are blessed to know what our eternal destiny will be if we will keep the commandments and endure to the end.

The Three Degrees of Glory


160 posted on 02/18/2010 9:35:46 AM PST by greyfoxx39 ("The Economy Is So Bad, Even 'Rosy Scenario' Lost Her Job"-Jim Geraghty)
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