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Two points about Book of Mormon geography (OPEN)
Mormon Times ^ | 2/15/10 | Mike Ash

Posted on 02/15/2010 3:25:45 PM PST by reaganaut

Before we can intelligently discuss supposed Book of Mormon anachronisms we need to explore the possible New World location for Book of Mormon events. A geographic model will help set the background for understanding many of the future articles in this series. First, however, some significant facts must be addressed to properly examine this topic.

1. There is no official Book of Mormon geography.

In the quasi-official Encyclopedia of Mormonism, the production of which was overseen by Elders Dallin H. Oaks and Neal A. Maxwell of the Quorum of the Twelve, we find the following: "The church has not taken an official position with regard to location of geographical places (in the Book of Mormon)."

In 1993, in response to a query from the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, the office of the First Presidency faxed a statement, which reads in part:

"The church emphasizes the doctrinal and historical value of the Book of Mormon, not its geography. While some Latter-day Saints have looked for possible locations ... there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site."

George Q. Cannon, First Presidency counselor to Presidents Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff and Lorenzo Snow, said:

"The First Presidency has often been asked to prepare some suggestive map illustrative of Nephite geography but have never consented to do so. Nor are we acquainted with any of the Twelve Apostles who would undertake such a task. The reason is, that without further information, they are not prepared even to suggest (a map). The word of the Lord or the translation of other ancient records is required to clear up many points now so obscure...."

Without revelation on the matter, we are left to our own intellects and theories. Why haven't we received revelation on this matter? Why haven't we received revelation as to the age of the Earth, the exact location of Jesus' birth, the precise location that the Israelites crossed the Red Sea, the eternal purpose of dinosaurs or a definitive answer about evolution? Do the pearly gates "swing" or "slide"?

Like Book of Mormon geography, such issues don't affect our salvation. Some members, however, may struggle with their testimonies if they believe the Book of Mormon cannot be correlated to any real-world geography. Conversely, a reasonable geographic model can bolster the faith of other members.

2. Joseph Smith's comments should not be construed as revelatory.

Although most members tacitly acknowledge that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has no official position on the location of Book of Mormon events, some members seem to believe that statements made by Joseph Smith implicitly represent revelation on the topic.

Some have even gone as far to suggest that those who disagree with Joseph Smith's geographical comments are guilty of rejecting the prophet or that they are out of harmony with the LDS Church. This is a strange accusation and implies that those church leaders who have said that there is no official Book of Mormon geography are also on the road to apostasy, which is obviously untrue.

Just because Joseph translated the Book of Mormon doesn't mean he received revelation as to whereabouts of those events. When we read his statements on the matter, it becomes apparent that he had some strong opinions but that his opinions changed with time and reflected his best intellectual efforts to discover answers -- just as any curious individual would do. Because he never claimed to know the geography from revelation, we shouldn't make this claim for him.

This also applies to statements by all modern prophets. No prophet has claimed revelation on Book of Mormon geography, and their comments should be tempered by our discussion in issues 10-16.

Critics like to quote Joseph's mother, Lucy, who said that while Lord prepared Joseph to acquire the plates, "God ... manifest(ed) to him" some of the "particulars" concerning the Book of Mormon. According to Lucy, Joseph described the "ancient inhabitants of this continent," as well as their dress, mode of traveling, their cities and more (History of Joseph Smith, 83).

According to the critics, this suggests that Joseph knew everything about the Book of Mormon, saw exactly what their lives were lik, and would know where the events took place.

Firstly, Lucy dictated her thoughts nearly two decades after they happened. Secondly, just because Joseph saw such things in vision doesn't mean that Joseph knew the location of the events. Seeing people and buildings is not the same as seeing a map or satellite image. There is no evidence that God revealed the location of Book of Mormon events to Joseph Smith.


TOPICS: History; Other Christian; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; christian; mormon; mormon1
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To: Religion Moderator
You chose “ignorant” as part of your name. But do not call another Freeper by that term because it is mind reading, i.e. “making it personal.”

I've still been called ignorant. But I don't hit "abuse" button like these thin skinned folks.

161 posted on 02/20/2010 8:15:26 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

Revelation 22

8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.


162 posted on 02/20/2010 8:30:25 AM PST by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: philetus

Thank you. There are many more examples as well.
The prisoner trying to worship Paul, David coming home from war victory...etc. etc. Like I mentioned earlier there are examples all though out writings but some must strain at gnats and swallow camels. :-)


163 posted on 02/20/2010 8:48:11 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; Elsie
Like I mentioned earlier there are examples all though out writings but some must strain at gnats and swallow camels. :-)

The citations given in post 136 amount to straining at gnats and swallowing camels? BTW, that post was given to you. I kept reading looking for a reply but, alas.....CRICKETS!

164 posted on 02/20/2010 9:09:02 AM PST by houeto (Remember in November!)
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To: houeto

Since you don’t seem to understand the topic of conversation let me attempt at bringing you up to snuff. Not being a Mormon myself was trying to make these angry apologists understand there were those in both religions attempting to worship humans on occasion. Now I would expect you to try and comprehend going forward. thanx.


165 posted on 02/20/2010 9:56:47 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Now I would expect you to try and comprehend going forward.

I fully comprehend. I have read and understood each of your posts. You are attempting to mix apples with oranges and it's not working. Single occurances from the Bible do not equal church doctrine. Get it now?

Furthermore, how do you come off saying that these posters are angry? I certainly don't see it that way. Trying to reveal the truth does not reflect anger.

166 posted on 02/20/2010 10:30:43 AM PST by houeto (Remember in November!)
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To: houeto

Welcome to the angry gang.


167 posted on 02/20/2010 11:51:13 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: houeto
Get it now?

Some here will get it. Others will not admit to it for the simple sake of trying to derail a particular thread, and those are worthless to throw one's pearls too.

Round here we just don't feed those kinds of trolls.

168 posted on 02/20/2010 1:56:13 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla

angry?


169 posted on 02/20/2010 2:02:07 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; Godzilla; Elsie
angry?

Not sure about Godzilla, but I am not.

What is your take on Elsie's cites in post #136?

170 posted on 02/20/2010 3:37:46 PM PST by houeto (Remember in November!)
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To: houeto

Did you miss 163? I’m seeing no improvement in your comprehensions skills. Pay attention now.


171 posted on 02/20/2010 3:57:56 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: houeto; Elsie

I guess I’ll humor you for a moment. Let me try to make this simple. I agree with Elsie’s 136. He needn’t have spent the energy (but I know how ya’ll love rabbit trails) since my point is that both religions are guilty.


172 posted on 02/20/2010 4:00:56 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: houeto; Elsie

Kinda like I pointed out. there is one purpose for the thread, and some here only like to hijack and insult. Ignore the trolls and they eventually melt away because of lack of attention.

I’m not angry either - just disappointed in the childish behavior.


173 posted on 02/20/2010 5:52:16 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Religion Moderator, tell Godzilla how many times I've been called "ignorant" on FR post a reply?
174 posted on 02/20/2010 7:17:40 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Every time you REPLY to something?


175 posted on 02/20/2010 7:20:11 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Actually over and above my moniker. But no prob. I’m not the one who hits abuse. Carry on taking turns performing for one other. Unless I’m “ignorantly” confusing that with “witnessing”. lol.


176 posted on 02/21/2010 7:19:28 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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