Posted on 02/15/2010 3:25:45 PM PST by reaganaut
Before we can intelligently discuss supposed Book of Mormon anachronisms we need to explore the possible New World location for Book of Mormon events. A geographic model will help set the background for understanding many of the future articles in this series. First, however, some significant facts must be addressed to properly examine this topic.
1. There is no official Book of Mormon geography.
In the quasi-official Encyclopedia of Mormonism, the production of which was overseen by Elders Dallin H. Oaks and Neal A. Maxwell of the Quorum of the Twelve, we find the following: "The church has not taken an official position with regard to location of geographical places (in the Book of Mormon)."
In 1993, in response to a query from the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, the office of the First Presidency faxed a statement, which reads in part:
"The church emphasizes the doctrinal and historical value of the Book of Mormon, not its geography. While some Latter-day Saints have looked for possible locations ... there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site."
George Q. Cannon, First Presidency counselor to Presidents Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff and Lorenzo Snow, said:
"The First Presidency has often been asked to prepare some suggestive map illustrative of Nephite geography but have never consented to do so. Nor are we acquainted with any of the Twelve Apostles who would undertake such a task. The reason is, that without further information, they are not prepared even to suggest (a map). The word of the Lord or the translation of other ancient records is required to clear up many points now so obscure...."
Without revelation on the matter, we are left to our own intellects and theories. Why haven't we received revelation on this matter? Why haven't we received revelation as to the age of the Earth, the exact location of Jesus' birth, the precise location that the Israelites crossed the Red Sea, the eternal purpose of dinosaurs or a definitive answer about evolution? Do the pearly gates "swing" or "slide"?
Like Book of Mormon geography, such issues don't affect our salvation. Some members, however, may struggle with their testimonies if they believe the Book of Mormon cannot be correlated to any real-world geography. Conversely, a reasonable geographic model can bolster the faith of other members.
2. Joseph Smith's comments should not be construed as revelatory.
Although most members tacitly acknowledge that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has no official position on the location of Book of Mormon events, some members seem to believe that statements made by Joseph Smith implicitly represent revelation on the topic.
Some have even gone as far to suggest that those who disagree with Joseph Smith's geographical comments are guilty of rejecting the prophet or that they are out of harmony with the LDS Church. This is a strange accusation and implies that those church leaders who have said that there is no official Book of Mormon geography are also on the road to apostasy, which is obviously untrue.
Just because Joseph translated the Book of Mormon doesn't mean he received revelation as to whereabouts of those events. When we read his statements on the matter, it becomes apparent that he had some strong opinions but that his opinions changed with time and reflected his best intellectual efforts to discover answers -- just as any curious individual would do. Because he never claimed to know the geography from revelation, we shouldn't make this claim for him.
This also applies to statements by all modern prophets. No prophet has claimed revelation on Book of Mormon geography, and their comments should be tempered by our discussion in issues 10-16.
Critics like to quote Joseph's mother, Lucy, who said that while Lord prepared Joseph to acquire the plates, "God ... manifest(ed) to him" some of the "particulars" concerning the Book of Mormon. According to Lucy, Joseph described the "ancient inhabitants of this continent," as well as their dress, mode of traveling, their cities and more (History of Joseph Smith, 83).
According to the critics, this suggests that Joseph knew everything about the Book of Mormon, saw exactly what their lives were lik, and would know where the events took place.
Firstly, Lucy dictated her thoughts nearly two decades after they happened. Secondly, just because Joseph saw such things in vision doesn't mean that Joseph knew the location of the events. Seeing people and buildings is not the same as seeing a map or satellite image. There is no evidence that God revealed the location of Book of Mormon events to Joseph Smith.
Always comes down to this when you you're stuck for answers.
lol. Must have hit a nerve with ya’ll. This is your typical behavior when all else fails.
Then source it.
source what?
Source biblical figures rebuking for worshiping them? Seriously, you need this sourced? You're more ignorant that I thought.
II, we're in no mood for personal rhetoric like this. You've had your fun but this is getting excessive.
That's rich. Religion Moderator, tell Godzilla how many times I've been called "ignorant" on FR. lol.
Wasn’t necessarily meant as a personal attack. If he’s truly ignorant about this I’m genuinely surprised.
I love it. The anger posse swoops in when they’re stuck.
Hey I’m not in the “mood” for those pictures. lol.
Thank you. When you run out of coherent responses you post pictures and graphics. Jesus tell ya to do that?
You chose “ignorant” as part of your name. But do not call another Freeper by that term because it is mind reading, i.e. “making it personal.”
Now I don’t care who you are, that there was funny!
LOL!
Follow the thread. Source this statement of yours:
“Many instances of human attempting to worship humans throughout the Bible.” [II]
As I suspected, you cannot source the comment.
Wasn’t necessarily meant as a personal attack. If he’s truly ignorant about this I’m genuinely surprised.
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Why doesn’t II just actually source something instead of resorting to Ad hominum attacks.
I suspect because he cannot source it. Most other people just cite examples rather than give the run around.
As I expected you're ignorant about the contents in this area.
Because there are so many examples it would take me all day to source. I hope you're not being disingenuous about something so obvious. But if I were a mind reader I would say you're the master of filibuster.
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