Posted on 01/26/2010 2:40:31 PM PST by Colofornian
Joseph Smith was a terrible writer.
While that statement might sound foreign to members, considering his testimony and revelations have been spread around the world in more than 160 languages, it should come as no surprise when you realize the Prophet had no more than a third-grade education.
"We can't underestimate the significance of all these scribes," said Alex Baugh, professor of church history and doctrine at Brigham Young University. "Their contributions are incalculable."
Why did the Prophet call the men he did to transcribe his largely oral revelations? The answer to that question depends on whom you ask.
SNIP
Despite their contributions, the Prophet said the one thing that hampered the keeping of his history was that so many of his scribes fell away or died. The list is saddening: Whitmer, Rigdon, Parrish and Robinson all left the church, never to return. Cowdery, Williams and Phelps were excommunicated, but came into full fellowship. Hyde was disfellowshipped for a time. Mulholland and Thompson died in Illinois.
Whitmer even took some of the documents with him on the way out of the church.
Only Richards, Bullock and Clayton stayed in the church the whole time.
(Excerpt) Read more at mormontimes.com ...
Indeed. Over half of those who worked closest with Smith and got to know him best either apostatized, were ex-communicated or were disfellowshipped (8 of the above-mentioned 14). I think that says more about Smith than about his employees, doncha think?
From the article: So how could an uneducated New England farm boy bring to pass a work...a mere...2 percent -- are in the prophet's own handwriting.
Ah yes, the writer answers his own question. Smith brought it to pass 'cause so little of it was solely his own. Except for the tale-telling...even Joe's mom said he has a great knack for telling details of historic unknown cultures even at age 17. As many from previous centuries have proved, education has zilcho to do with yarn-tellin'.
(Besides, we know Muhammad was illiterate...yet look at the size of Koran/Quran...he had a lot of 'jinn' help)
Crooked? Yeah, I’d have to agree with that!
Don’t these constant attacks get boring ? Did some Mormon run over your cat or something ?
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
If you don’t like it, don’t read it.
Colofornian ...
...why are you so petty against a religion that includes 1.5% of the population of the USA?
...your postings are actually more revealing about yourself as a Religious Bigot, than damaging to the LDS church.
.... we get it allready, If modern sensitivities allowed you would be in the front ranks to murder Joseph Smith anew. OK your heart is filled with an unchristian hate ... is that going to get you into heaven? .... not by my understanding.
...funny though, inspite of those scribes leaving the church, all of them testified on thier deathbed that they believed Joseph Smith to be a prophet of God .... bet that isn’t discussed in your anti-mormon handbook!
#2 As Elsie has already displayed, the Mormon church is quite intolerant of all other churches:
They claim they're the "ONLY" true church town (= all others are false)
They claim the rest of us are "apostates" (not much different than Muslims calling Christians "infidels" now is it?...wonder if the same spirit who appeared to Muhammaded appeared to Smith?)
They claim, citing the Book of Mormon (1 Nephi 14:10), that there's really only 2 churches -- their's & the rest -- the rest being the "church of the devil." [Please let me know if you interpret 1 Nephi 14:10 anyway different than that]
If you believe in the Lds "scripture" Elsie cited in post #5, that would mean you deem our churches to be not worth joining...that we're faithless heart-drifters from God...that our professors are "corrupt"...and that zilcho of our creeds honor God -- for Smith claimed there that they were ALL (100%) an "abomination to God."
Now, do you really want to explain Teppe, how any of these statements convey a spirit of "toleration?" What's more, I've been saying these things on a number of threads for a few years. Smith said these things going back to the 1830s!!! By the mid-1870s, the Lds church decided to enshrine these words as "scripture." And ever since, the Lds church has published them into over 100 languages, put it out online to millions of visitors, and have sent out literally over 1 million missionaries proclaiming these same things.
And you get up-tight over a single poster's online threads?
Are you a Mormon tither?
Does your $ go into republishing the Pearl of Great Price -- what Elsie cited in post #5?
Have you ever served on an Lds mission?
If so, did you talk about the so-called "universal apostasy" of all Christians?
Do you believe Joseph Smith - History vv. 18-21 in the Pearl of Great Price? Yes? No?
If we have a series of "yes" answers to those questions, who are you to talk about bigotry & intolerance? Your "scriptures" write off ALL of our Christian "professors" as "corrupt."
If I had an opportunity to talk to Smith, I'd say the same things I'm saying to you...just would be even more direct.
Really? Who told you that. Let me guess, a Mormon or is it the "official" story as released by the LDS machine.... LOL
Really? Who told you that. Let me guess, a Mormon or is it the "official" story as released by the LDS machine.... LOL
The Mormon Church, claims Cowdery came back to the church. But, if he did, he must have left again, because when he died he was buried by a Methodist minister in Richmond, Missouri.
David Whitmer, still believing in the Book of Mormon (probably because of the many Biblical passages in it), became a member of the Church of Christ and died rejecting the LDS Church.
Martin Harris joined Anna Lee’s church, the Shakers, saying that his testimony of Shakerism was greater than that of the Book of Mormon. Although later in life he came back to the Mormon Church and took out his temple endowments, he admitted it was just to find out “what was going on in there.”
Interestingly, as often happens with time and celebrity status, there are accounts in the witnesses’ later years, where they greatly enlarged their testimony. They are quoted as giving very different and exaggerated accounts— much different than during their earlier years. Fawn Brodie notes, in No Man Knows My History, that David Whitmer’s testimony, given 49 years later, was too “richly embellished”. Whitmer added a long list of things he supposedly saw, which were not mentioned in his earlier account:
the brass plates, the plates of the book of Ether ., . . a table with many records or plates upon it . . . also the Sword of Laban, the directors - i.e., the ball which Lehi had, and the Interpreters.”
Martin Harris, in the last five years of his life, also gave an extraordinary testimony.
Considering that the witnesses admitted years earlier to seeing the plates in a “vision” or “entranced state,” rather than as a physical reality, one must conclude that the embellishments of their testimony in later years was received in the same manner.
Their motive? Mormon writer Richard L. Anderson says, “Martin Harris, like all the witnesses, was especially desirous at the end of his life to have people hear and repeat his testimony.” Why not? By that time, they had become celebrities!
There are several possible reasons the three witnesses didn’t publicly recant their testimony of the plates.
They may have retained a special feeling for the Book of Mormon because of its many Biblical passages.
· Since their declaration is stated in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, they would not only be guilty of perjury, but their credibility would be suspect the rest of their life.
· They would look pretty silly telling people that what they testified to and allowed to appear in print, really didn’t happen.
· They began to enjoy their celebrity status and, so, in time, embellished their story.
http://www.janishutchinson.com/threewit.html
Let us never forget the example of Sidney Rigdon, doomed to die a complete failure in Pittsburgh.
If you can't argue against the truth, attack the source, or change the subject?
Thanks for bumping the thread jimt|!
Why don’t you reply to posts to you instead of changing the subject? Folks have posted questions and replies to your posts, yet you take the tact of obfuscation and deflection.
Attack the messenger? Is this the new tactic of lds apologists?
Posted to you by an apostate, who, according to mormon teachings is “doomed to outer darkness”. Am I a bigot for questioning what I was taught and eventually learned? If so, you have a tough road to hoe pal. For there are many more like me who are beginning to speak up and out against what your religion teaches. You can’t squelch the growing rumble of “antis” now that the internet is upon you.
In regards to “hate”, folks who were lied to have a reason to feel a certain level of emotion regarding the many fallacies of lds teachings they fell for. I “hate” the fact that I was stupid and ignorant enough to be drawn into something that is totally and utterly false. I “hate” the fact that I wasted years of my life believing in something that took me down a path of futility.
I “hate” the fact that now that I know the TRUTH, I have to teach my family that same truth in order to ensure their salvation. It would of been oh so much easier had I remained a non-member and resisted the wishes of my wife in allowing our son to be raised in the church.
So, according to you, since I’m a “hater”, I guess I’m again doomed to some purgatory. If so, then I guess I’ll take my chances being judged by Jesus as opposed to Joseph Smith. I need to find a third way to end up in some type of outer darkness, I’m looking for a trifecta.
SZ
BTW, Attributing motives is against FR rules. You would do well to remember that in your judgemental posts. I guess when you're taught that you're going to be a god someday, you start learning how to judge at an early age.
I see it was Colofornian who took the high road and elected not to bring the RM into the fray.
SZ
LDS prophet = profit
from a humor blog: (THIS IS A JOKE)
At a meeting requested by Regional Representative Archibald K. Yost, the Church asked for sensitivity on the part of Postmormons when speaking of the President of the Church. Specifically, Yost stated that Mormons take umbrage to the frequent use of the pejorative, “the Profit” when speaking of the Church’s President.
Said Yost, “There is no ‘f’ in ‘Prophet’.”
PETTY?
HA HA ha!
What is it aboutMormon QUOTES that so rile certain folks?
...your postings are actually more revealing about yourself as a Religious Bigot, than damaging to the LDS church.
Time will tell...
If modern sensitivities allowed you would be in the front ranks to murder Joseph Smith anew.
Take your mindreading act on the road; Dude!
Vegas would LOVE it!!
Thee makes me mad enough to SPIT!)
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