Posted on 01/24/2010 4:54:22 PM PST by Colofornian
When the Mormon pioneers headed West under duress in 1847, they had reason to feel bitter at their treatment by the world's foremost liberal democracy. For years, Americans had chased, robbed, beaten and killed them.
Joseph Smith, seeking redress for his people, earlier had gone to Washington, D.C. The towering statesmen of the day who received him acted like, well, Washington politicians.
According to Smith, the legendary Henry Clay said, "You had better go to Oregon." The revered John C. Calhoun counseled, "It is a nice question, a critical question, but it will not do to agitate it." And the ultimate inside-the-beltway waffling came from President Martin Van Buren: "Your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you."
Following Smith's death, and encouraged by belligerent neighbors with guns, the Saints turned their wagons west. They might have turned their backs forever on the United States of Hypocrisy. Instead, they considered themselves the last Real Americans, the legitimate heirs of the pilgrims and Founding Fathers.
And, they believed, the very survival of the Constitution depended on the Saints. From Smith on, LDS leaders prophesied the Constitution would one day hang by a thread, only to be saved by Mormons.
When (LDS) U.S. Sen. Hatch recently went on (LDS) talk radio host Glenn Beck's show and said the Constitution is hanging by a thread (threatened, one supposes, by President Barack Obama's "socialist agenda" like it never had been by slavery, the Civil War, the Great Depression, McCarthyism, or a president forced to resign for criminal conduct), Hatch was speaking "code" to those in the know. To others it still made for a rollicking right-wing, red meat sound bite.
If the rest of the country was going to hell, then the Saints would protect its sacred heart in their mountain fastness. Brigham Young famously said he loved the Constitution, but did not love "the damn rascals who administer the government."
This love/hate would define Mormon relations with America for a generation.
Polygamy was publicly acknowledged in 1852 and Mormons threw themselves into becoming experts on the Constitution, especially on the religious freedom bits. They were that era's civil libertarians. Curiously, their arguments defending non-traditional marriage are being echoed by gay marriage advocates this very week in a California courtroom. No matter. Moral outrage was fierce toward Mormons and polygamy.
Young plaintively observed, "There is not a territory in the Union that is looked upon with so suspicious an eye as is Utah, and yet it is the only part of the nation that cares anything about the Constitution."
America wasn't buying it. It was tautological nonsense to say one loved the Constitution but hated its government and laws. The United States wanted more than lip service to its institutions -- it demanded loyalty. The screws were applied and laws stripped The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints of its property and turned its leadership into fugitives. To avoid destruction, the church finally cried, "Uncle Sam!"
The Manifesto, issued in 1890 by Wilford Woodruff, ended the practice of polygamy and paved the way for Utah's admission to the Union. Ever after, Woodruff took pains to connect the dots between love of the Constitution and fealty to its government. "We live in a government raised up by the God of heaven."
And if anyone missed the point, Woodruff prayed at the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, "Confer abundant favors upon the president, his Cabinet and Congress ... Show them that we are their friends, that we love liberty ... and give unto us and our children an increased disposition to always be loyal."
However, old habits die hard. Recent polling found Mormons to be the most conservative of the conservative; the strictest of the strict constructionists. Inflexible in their devotion to the Constitution, apt to quote Young's hate of "the damn rascals who administer the government."
Another Young quote:
"The signers of the Declaration of Independence and the framers of the Constitution were inspired from on high to do that work. But was that which was given to them perfect, not admitting of any addition whatever? No; for if men know anything, they must know that the Almighty has never yet found a man in mortality that was capable, at the first intimation, at the first impulse, to receive anything in a state of entire perfection. They laid the foundation, and it was for after generations to rear the superstructure upon it. It is a progressive -- a gradual work."
Pat Bagley is The Salt Lake Tribune's political cartoonist.
oh, gag.
http://atlah.org/
ATLAH World Ministries (”All Jesus, All The Time”)
seems like a typical ‘non-traditional Christian’ site.
“We worship on Saturday at 11 A.M. EST. We are Sabbath worshippers!”
“[The area] Formerly known Harlem has been renamed: ATLAH”
“ATLAH means, the land where the people shall walk barefoot, because the land is holy ground.”
“Given to Pastor James David Manning, by Almighty God, 14 September 1991”
Godzilla, do not make this thread "about" individual posters. That is also a form of "making it personal."
Lets see,
A guy claims to receive revelation...
sets up a “holy city” (a Zion)...
And milks money out of followers...
what next? is he going to claim to have received new “scripture” found on brass plates under the Statue of Liberty?
It really boils down to this, if you don't have a personal relationship with Jesus, it really doesn't matter what else you believe or what religion you are, Christian or otherwise. Lots of Christians go to church but, don't know Jesus. I had no clue, no one ever told me, that I had to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, that was all that mattered. I just thought, I called myself a Christian so I was ok. That change in 1975, when I gave my life to Christ.
The best book I ever read on cults was, Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin. Excellent book!!!
hehe, that’s what i was wondering...
the site is even kookier than it seems at first glance
it’s almost as funny as the FR Religion Forum!
My relative also got to this country in the 1620’s and married my other relatives who were already here. I think you call the Indians.
Good point! Mormons before there were mormons. How did they manage that?
My first were Dutch Walloons, 1623..
I dont think I have any Native Americans in my direct line...
But their brothers married into the New York tribes...
LOL
The mormon mindset...
Lots of Christians go to church but, don’t know Jesus. I just thought, I called myself a Christian so I was ok.
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that was me too. That is part of how I got sucked into the Mormon Church. I became a Christian 6 months after I went “inactive” in the LDS church.
That is a good book, especially for general overviews.
it’s almost as funny as the FR Religion Forum!
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LOL. I wouldn’t go THAT far...FR RF is in a class of of its own. ;)
Baptsim for the dead, before they were born.
Hey, it makes as much sense at JS’s “first vision”
Baptsim for the dead, before they were born.
____________________________________________
YOURE KIDDING !!!!!
Baptism for the dead?! How can the dead be baptized? That seems to me to be crazy.
my intent wasn’t personal, but I see where I could have used other words to alert you to the issue. Noted for future occurances.
yeah.
Baptism for the dead?! How can the dead be baptized? That seems to me to be crazy.
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They can’t. However the LDS take one verse of 1 Corinthians (15:29) out of context (Paul is discussing the Resurrection not baptism), and READ INTO IT a doctrine that is not Biblical yet becomes the foundation for much of their faith.
The LDS believe that non-mormons, when the die, go to “spirit prison” (similar to Purgatory) where they wait for Mormons here on earth to have them baptized (by proxy) into the Mormon faith. Only really good, ‘worthy’, Mormons can go back into the presence of God, everyone else goes to ‘lesser’ kingdoms, except for apostates or “sons of perdition” who go to “outer darkness” instead of Hell. “Outer Darkness” is the ultimate deep-freeze.
After this, a Mormon will also go through one of their temples doing other Mormons rites on their behalf that Mormons consider necessary to get into heaven:
...ordaining them to the LDS priesthood - men only,
... Endowments - where they learn the secret handshakes and make oaths to the Mormon Church which is required to get into Heaven.
...Temple Marriage which the believe still holds in heaven AKA Marriage for Eternity (which is also unbiblical).
..and a few others but those are the biggies.
The worst part about their work for the dead is the disrespect it shows the non-mormon descendants or their own wishes or faith.
For example, I know a man who was LDS, he was married to a Catholic woman and she stated to him several times she did not want to be baptized LDS after she died. A few years later, she and their son were killed in a car crash. The husband respected her wishes BUT HIS parents, KNOWING SHE DIDN”T WANT IT, went ahead and had “temple work” done for her and the son against their OWN LDS son’s wishes as well.
The whole practice strikes me as rather selfish, although that is the last thing the LDS claim it to be.
Hope this helps and yes it is crazy.
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