Posted on 01/21/2010 2:05:00 PM PST by Colofornian
It is urgent to witness to Mormons because they worship a false god. To many Christians this sounds like an extreme position; after all Mormons profess faith in Jesus Christ and have incorporated his name into the name of their church. Yet the majority of LDS doctrine contradicts the truth of the Bible. There are few simple comparisons of doctrine that illustrate the great gulf between Mormonism and Christianity more clearly than the LDS doctrine of godhood. This doctrine states that the LDS god was once a man and that if a Mormon is faithful to the LDS church he or she will become a god.
The title of this article is taken from Doctrine and Covenants 132:20-21 “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.” This passage refers to the LDS doctrine that those who fulfill all the demands of Mormonism will become a god and rule over their own world.
A more complete explanation of the doctrine can be found in the 76th chapter of Doctrine and Covenants. This doctrine is dovetailed with the doctrine that the god of this world was once a man on another world who fulfilled all the demands of Mormonism and was given this world to rule. The LDS prophet Lorenzo Snow is credited with coining a catch phrase to summarize these doctrines “As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.”
Many people believe this doctrine is one of the “old school” beliefs of the LDS church, no longer part of today’s LDS church. This is due to a number of different factors:
How the LDS church markets its form of religion. You will not find the doctrines concerning godhood prominent in their TV commercials or on the web site designed to promote their beliefs to non-Mormons, mormon.org.
How Mormons themselves react concerning the doctrine. Most Mormons when asked about their personal pursuit of godhood and whether they really see themselves at some time in the future as a god, down play the thought. It seems as though most Mormons are embarrassed by the thought of becoming a god and that this ultimate result of their faith is relegated to “out of sight, out of mind”.
How godhood is covered using other terms. The subject of godhood is discussed via a variety of more commonly used equivalent phrases; ‘exaltation’, ‘eternal life’ and ‘having an eternal family’
Modern Mormon official church literature ensures that this doctrine remains one of the church’s foundations and is to be the desired outcome of every Mormon’s walk of faith and works. In Gospel Principles on page 302 is a list of the blessings of exaltation. Number 2 is “They will become gods.” The list also includes “live eternally” and “have their righteous family members with them." The D&C Student Manual on page 358 has this quote of prophet Spencer Kimball: "Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe."
Most discussion of godhood in the official church magazine “Ensign” is discussed using the subjects of eternal life, exaltation, and eternal family; however godhood still makes the occasional appearance:
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught of a much simpler and more sensible relationship: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! January 2005 Ensign, page 48
“We are in the mortal life to get an experience, a training, that we couldn’t get any other way. And in order [for us] to become gods, it is necessary for us to know something about pain, about sickness, and about the other things that we partake of in this school of mortality.” January 2006 Ensign, page 52
While the doctrine that man can become a god is very troubling to Christians, it is actually the other part of the doctrine that clearly shows the urgency of witnessing to Mormons. The implications in the claim that their god was once a man has many far-reaching consequences. Among them are:
This god is not eternal. He was procreated spiritually by two other gods and born physically to mortal, sinful parents.
This god was not always perfect. He worked his way up from being a sinful being.
This god is not unique. There are countless other gods.
This god is not all powerful. He is just one cog in a much larger machine.
This god created Christ. The son of this god, also called Jesus Christ, did not exist until this god procreated him spiritually with another god and physically with Mary.
Once Christians understand the magnitude of the differences between the Mormon god and their own God, they can then see the urgency of witnessing to Mormons. They can see the futility of Mormonism in the worship of a created being.
Obama prove that all you have to do to become a god is vote “present.”
People will go to many lengths to believe in a god other than the Trinitarian God of the Bible. It’s very appealing, though, to believe that you can become your own god. Almost as appealing as the Reformed beliefs in the limo ride to heaven for the elect.
Indeed...look at the high-minded claims of that Lds “scriptural” statement: “Then shall they be gods...then shall they be above all...
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Hmmm....where have we heard THAT before...
2 Thessalonians 2:4 (Today’s New International Version)
4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Every political breakfast I go to, I ask who the Mormons are so I don’t have to be seated next to one. You know, because the Mormon Derangement Sewing Circle has convinced me to be unevenly yolked.
Or something like that....
That is actually funny.
I suppose, Larry, if you don't like the smoky atmosphere here as we're BBQ'd alive by the Mormon world-wide contingent, you could always grab a Mormon shovel and try to bury us yet again in that one gigantic spiritual graveyard Joe Smith tried to dig for us back yonder...
...the problem's been that we just won't stay "dead..."
...ya see, Larry, the reality of our spiritual existence causes a rather, how shall I say this, "grave" problem for the average contemporary Mormon...
...you see, if they acknowledge that we & our ancestors are indeed true Christians, then why did the world ever "need" a Mormon "restoration" to come along???
If nothing was completely lost, if all Christians weren't buried away in some graveyard, then no restorer was needed...
...and if no restorer was needed, then Joe Smith's existence as what the Mormon Times has called the "first student of the church" was all unnecessary/superflous!
So, the Mormons just can't have all these Christians bouncing up out of their designated coffins. Elsewise the restoration was irrelevant: No dead Christian church, no dead Christians across the board, the so-called "restoration" itself then dies.
So the Mormons declare us dead everywhere they can...missionary-prompted doorbells & porches; the Lds official Web site; Lds curricula; its official Ensign mag; its historical books, etc. (They try to couch it using subtle language like "universal apostasy," but we know who "universal" is...kind of like when Obama talks about "universal healthcare"...we know who Obama has in mind for that, too!!!)
I am tempted to write a long post on the differences between theosis, apotheosis, and Apocolocyntosis, but it shall have to wait until morning.
Suffice it to say, there is no Biblical, nor historical viewpoint among Christian supporting the idea that we (as creations of God) shall ever become Gods ourselves.
In fact, the entire idea is a very gross blasphemy. But considering Joseph Smith’s delusions of grandeur...what can we expect?
That's what happens when you can have women at a whim...Smith even nabbed 11-12 wives of already-married women! He began collecting them like a hobby in serious earnest in those last few years of his life...1842...1843...the remaining months of his life in 1844...Why only a "god" could have this kind of power...hence it wasn't til he almost died that he took off preaching his multiple god theory @ the King Follett funeral...
And ya gotta realize that the verses highlighting Mormons becoming gods -- D&C 132:20-21... was written in a broader context for two OTHER purposes...both dealing with "polypartnering":
(a) Convince Joseph's first wife Emma that it 'twas God's idea -- not Joseph's -- that Joseph pick up this multiple-wife "sideline activity"...D&C 132:34-35 is just a sort of preamble to what the real targeted purpose ... Joseph wrote D&C 132 initially just for his first wife!!!
We see this quite plainly in D&C 132:52-53: And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God. 53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things;
Ah...see where the "polygamy" justification fits in nicely with the Mormon doctrine of "Then they shall be gods?" See, Joseph says, "He'...ll be made ruler over many things" -- and obviously big-shot divine rulers need a lot of wives!!!
Oh, and purpose (b) tied to polypartnering? Why, that's covered in the next D&C verse -- D&C 132:54: And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
Do all you Lds & non-Lds lurkers get this picture now? Can you imagine what strife was going on in the Smith household at the time? Emma finally had some "bounceback" during one of those Smith arguments. She came up with a "what's-good-for-the-gander-is-good-for-the-goose" argument! She threatened to find her an extra husband or two or three.
Why just imagine that. Emma Smith pondering bedding down with other hubbies. If for no other reason than spite.
Well, a "prophet" can't have his wife sleep around e'en though he's adding another bedroom every month for a new wife! (That's what averaged the last two years of his life).
So, there ya have it. The origins of Mormons-R-goods was rooted in (a) polygamy; and (b) anti-Emma polygamy; and Smith took a funeral sermon of all places, to further expound upon future godhood.
True.
Very succint. I like that and totally agree with your assessment.
SZ
It may be LDS doctrine but it is not Christian doctrine and it is not the truth.
I expect to see plenty of Catholics, as well as E. Orthodox, Anglican, baptists, lutherians, methodists, etc. TBMs may well be by far under represented unless they have become born again and God honor that while still living in ignorance in lds inc.
How about you wwfb - would you like to become born again too?
Waiting for the usual crowd to show up and attack you personally. I’m interested to see if they have the guts to defend this doctrine.
Bt of course Hillary and Sara, if they were LDS, wouldn’t be able to claim that they believe they will be gods, because only the menfolk get to be gods. Their many wives are eternal breeders. Or at least that’s my understanding.
I certainly agree with that!
OK, I have a very heavy question.
I am a born-again Christian, and my hope, indeed my commission, is to try to bring as many people as possible to Christ. Here are my reasons:
1)I am so in love with Jesus; He brings me such joy! I want that for everybody!
2) I am commanded by God to evangelize all. I wish to obey God, who has been so gracious and loving to me.
3) Everyone who becomes a fellow Christian will instantly become my brother and sister, adopted by God. We will spend eternity enjoying each other and worshipping God together forever.
So, what’s in it for the Mormons? Why do they give a fig if anyone other than their family becomes Mormon too? It seems they are all in it for themselves, for what they can get out of it. They become gods and populate their own planets. Why would they care about Joe Schmoe down the street?
This is a serious question. Is it just one of their works? They do it for “points’?
Well, your question may actually draw a slew of responses/answers from some Lds FReepers & ex-Lds Freepers like Reaganaut, Szonian, Colorcountry and Greyfoxx. But notice those plural words (responses/answers). I don’t think it’s possible to narrow down your Q to simply 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 “right answers” because (a) people, including from one Mormon to another, are so different; and (b) your Q is really all about motives.
What motivates Mormons to act on behalf of “Joe Schmoe?” My immediate response is to warn, “Hey, let’s not generalize or stereotype Lds and project what we think as applicable to every Mormon. Motivations involve things internal – hearts we cannot see, much less judge.”
But, still, Mormons themselves have done us a favor in identifying the motives they see all around them. So, while we can’t get into “mind reading” of individual fellow Mormon FReepers, some of them – and other Lds, have conveyed in their own words what their motives are or what they’ve observed in those around them.
Therefore, the best way I could answer your specific Q is to allow Mormons to speak for themselves. I looked thru some Mormon publications to see what they had to say about what motivated them – or how they see people as being motivated. So, below are their words—some of which I leave uncommented…others I’ll comment upon..I’ll start with what I thought were the most positive motives given as encouragement to others…and then I’ll finish with what I believe are off-kilter motives – such as falling into the category of working for eternal life, etc. [Treating God as a “Teacher” who is “grading us”]
Sample of generally positive motives given by Lds writers attempting to encourage others to consider these as prime motivations:
One day, while thumbing through my files, I found a fundamental key to motivation in a quote by President David O. McKay. He said, “What you sincerely in your heart think of Christ will determine what you are, will largely determine what your acts will be.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1951, p. 93.) In other words, what people do or don’t do in a situation will depend on the understanding they have of the reality and role of Christ and upon the degree of loyalty and love they have for him. (C. Max Caldwell, Ensign Magazine, Feb. 1984)
President Hinckley said it this way: “When [an individual] is motivated by great and powerful convictions of truth, then he disciplines himself, not because of demands made by the Church but because of the knowledge within his heart.” Are we sufficiently motivated by “great and powerful convictions of truth”? (Neil L. Andersen, Ensign Magazine, May 2007)
Another Lds writer talked about being in awe of the atonement as motivation enough. Ballard, below, mentions love, testimony, gratitude, a new gospel:
Our love for the Lord and appreciation for the Restoration of the gospel are all the motivation we need to share what gives us much joy and happiness. If you are truly motivated by love and testimony and gratitude, you will quite naturally do all that you can to assist the Lord in “[bringing] to pass the immortality and eternal life” (Moses 1:39) of our Father’s children. (M. Russell Ballard, Ensign Magazine, May 2006, “Creating a Gospel-Sharing Home”)
Ballard mentions Moses 1:39, so let me quote it: For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. (Moses 1:39) [Note: By the Way, I would hope that every Mormon notes that this verse emphasizes that it’s GOD who does the work to yield eternal life in people – not us. It’s HIS glory (not ours) -- and therefore disqualifies ANYBODY seeking godhood glory for themselves.]
Also, sometimes a desire by a given Mormon could be to do what Ballard says – “assist the Lord in ‘bringing to pass…eternal life’” to another…yet strays too far, like Lds “prophet” John Taylor talking about how Mormons are the “saviours of the world.”
One Lds writer cited this as a reason: “Therefore, O ye that embark in the service of God, see that ye serve him with all your heart, might, mind and strength, that ye may stand blameless before God at the last day.” (D&C 4:2.) [Note: On the one hand, it sounds like a “works-based” answer, seeking blamelessness only in ourselves…and I suppose it could be, yet I recognize some Biblical passages which talk about presenting others blameless before God]
Types/categories of motivations recognized by Lds writers (Fear, including fear of punishment; duty/expectations; love for God/Christ; etc.)
My institute teacher once said that there are three primary motivations for obedience. The lowest of these—the telestial motivation, if you will—is fear. We are afraid of the Lord’s punishment for disobedience. This isn’t always compelling because we frequently overlook the consequences of our actions. The terrestrial motivation is duty. We do it because obedience is expected of us by our parents, spouse, friends, or church leaders. This too doesn’t always work because so often selfishness intrudes into our good intentions. The celestial, or purest, motivation is love for Heavenly Father and his Son, Jesus Christ. Now it is only this highest motivation which is compelling enough to keep us totally committed and submissive to the Lord’s will. (Betty Curry Jan. 1988 Ensign Magazine, “Missionary Focus: Assorted Assyrians”)
Motive to succeed; motive to avoid failure: Each member of the Lord’s church should ask himself why he lives God’s commandments and what motivates him to seek the spiritual goals he has set for himself. Remember that fear of punishment, a spiritual motive to avoid failure, is not bad. It is better to obey the commandments because of fear of punishment than to not obey the commandments at all. We will surely be happier if we obey God’s commandments than if we do not, but that happiness will likely be increased if we are motivated to do so by love of virtue rather than by fear of punishment. We will likely find more joy in the achievement of our spiritual goals if we seek them because we want to rather than because we ought to. … Why do we strive to achieve spiritual goals? Why do we try to live God’s commandments? The behavior of many people suggests that the motive to succeed and the motive to avoid failure have their counterparts in the spiritual realm. A person with a high spiritual motive to succeed may be characterized by a love of righteousness, a positive force attracting him toward exaltation. He seeks to attain a spiritual standard of excellence. He strives to achieve spiritual goals because he loves the Lord and his commandments. A person with a high spiritual motive to avoid failure may also have a desire to live the commandments. However, he is motivated more by a negative force repelling him away from the punishments of hell than he is by the positive attraction of the rewards of heaven. If he lives the Lord’s commandments, it is because he feels he ought to rather than because he really wants to. (One-time BYU professor of pyschology Kenneth L. Higbee, “Achieving Spiritual Goals … Why?,” Ensign Magazine, November 1971)
External Motivations: Truth in Love to Mormons Ministries points out that Lds cannot turn down callings very easily. Hence, there is among many Mormons this overwhelming sense of obligation where the motivation is primarily externally based [Caution: Don’t try to guess-pinpoint which Lds this includes…you’d be fishing in most cases] Here, let me give you an example by citing one-time Managing Director of Stake Missions Paul H. Dunn. “President Dunn” was a proven Lds “liar for the Lord” – I’ll mention specifics re: that in my next post …go to this article to see what I mean Mormon Leader Fabricates; Reporter Fired: The Story of Elder Paul H. Dunn … anyway, Dunn, I believe, was telling the truth when he wrote: The Church provides the motivation, encouragement, and information to assist the members in doing what the Lord has asked. Organization comes at the stake level with the coordination of full-time and stake missionary work. (Paul H. Dunn and Hartman Rector Jr., “Sharing the Gospel Today: A Conversation with Presidents Paul H. Dunn and Hartman Rector, Jr.,” Ensign Magazine, April 1973)
How external motivations – demands of the church, for example, often interact with works-righteousness – works that boomerang back to us to make us look better or look good: (Example, Lds general authority Dallin Oaks): I learned this lesson as a young man. I was assigned to visit a less-active member, a successful professional many years older than I. Looking back on my actions, I realize that I had very little loving concern for the man I visited. I acted out of duty, with a desire to report 100 percent on my home teaching. One evening, close to the end of a month, I phoned to ask if my companion and I could come right over and visit him. His chastening reply taught me an unforgettable lesson. “No, I don’t believe I want you to come over this evening,” he said. “I’m tired. I’ve already dressed for bed. I am reading, and I am just not willing to be interrupted so that you can report 100 percent on your home teaching this month.” That reply still stings me because I knew he had sensed my selfish motivation. (Dallin Oak, Liahona, January 2002, “Sharing the Gospel”)
The worst answer: Works-based or glory-based reasons:
The scriptures have a word for gospel service “for the sake of riches and honor”; it is “priestcraft.” (Alma 1:16.) Nephi said, “Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.” (2 Ne. 26:29.). In these latter days, we are commanded to “seek to bring forth and establish the cause of Zion.” (D&C 6:6.) Unfortunately, not all who accomplish works under that heading are really intending to build up Zion or strengthen the faith of the people of God. Other motives can be at work…Although those who serve out of fear of punishment or out of a sense of duty undoubtedly qualify for the blessings of heaven, there are still higher reasons for service. One such higher reason for service is the hope of an eternal reward. This hope—the expectation of enjoying the fruits of our labors—is one of the most powerful sources of motivation. As a reason for service, it necessarily involves faith in God and in the fulfillment of his prophecies. The scriptures are rich in promises of eternal rewards. For example, in a revelation given through the Prophet Joseph Smith in June 1829, the Lord said: “If you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.” (D&C 14:7.) (Dallin H. Oaks, “Why Do We Serve?,” Ensign, Nov 1984)
Note: Although Jesus indeed does talk about “reward,” wages are what we earn on Earth…and the apostle Paul says the wages we earn are death due to our sin (Rom. 6:23). Hence, sadly Oaks reinforces the boomerang view of some “hope of an eternal reward” based upon “commandment keeping” (D&C 14:7). Oaks sadly even concludes: Although those who serve out of fear of punishment or out of a sense of duty undoubtedly qualify for the blessings of heaven… -- I’m sorry, Mr. Oaks, but Jesus Christ qualifies us for heaven – NOT our service!!!
As you read the following, keep in mind that to a Mormon, “exaltation” = highest level of glory & becoming a god: A person with a high spiritual motive to succeed may be characterized by a love of righteousness, a positive force attracting him toward exaltation. He seeks to attain a spiritual standard of excellence. He strives to achieve spiritual goals because he loves the Lord and his commandments. A person with a high spiritual motive to avoid failure may also have a desire to live the commandments. However, he is motivated more by a negative force repelling him away from the punishments of hell than he is by the positive attraction of the rewards of heaven. If he lives the Lord’s commandments, it is because he feels he ought to rather than because he really wants to. The apostle Paul wrote, “For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Rom. 6:23.) The person with a high motive to avoid failure is motivated primarily by the first part of Paul’s statement, while the person with the high motive to succeed is motivated more by the second part of the statement. Both of these types of people may hate sin and desire to live the Lord’s commandments, but the former hates sin through fear of punishment, whereas the latter hates sin through love of virtue. Although both kinds of people may desire to live the Lord’s commandments, we might expect that they would be more receptive to different types of commandments. The person with a high motive to succeed would be concerned with knowing the things he should do, so that he can do those things to prepare himself for exaltation. (One-time BYU professor of pyschology Kenneth L. Higbee, “Achieving Spiritual Goals … Why?,” Ensign Magazine, November 1971)
Do you see the utter disconnect here? This one-time BYU psych professor cites Rom. 6:23 about eternal life being utterly a “gift” of God…but then twice within the same article talks about commandment-keeping and checklist keeping ”so that he can do those things to prepare himself for exaltation.” (Exaltation in Mormonism is NEVER a free gift; it's pure earned "worthiness" for the Mormon...so it's all about Mormon ritualism & Mormon checklist commandment-keeping)
It's on this note, then, that unfortunately, theologically upside-down passages like 2 Nephi 25:23 & Helaman 12:24 can have a spiritually fatal effect upon internal motivations.
Examples:
The LDS church's media relations manager in Salt Lake City issued a statement to an Idaho newspaper earlier this month that stated: "We must work to our limit and then rely upon the merits, mercy and grace of the Holy One of Israel..." IOW, the LDS church expects YOU to do EVERYTHING (the "limit") "before" God kicks in? (Notice the "and then" transition in the statement above). Lds derive this statement from 2 Nephi 25:23:
...ye are saved by grace, AFTER ALL YOU CAN DO." (2 Nephi 25:23) [Mormon, have you done ALL you can do? All YOU can do emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc.??? 'Cause this verse says free grace doesn't kick in UNTIL you do -- that's what the plain meaning of the words "AFTER all" equals.]
Likewise, look at Helaman 12:24 in the Book of Mormon: "...may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace, according to their WORKS." (Helaman 12:24) [In other words, the Book of Mormon right there teaches that free grace isn't so free after all, because men have to earn it "according to their works." -- and if men want free grace, they have to earn it...Boy, how that turns the word "grace" on its head & may tend to motivate somebody to do a work to earn something that by definition is beyond laboring for!!!]
My challenge to all, Lds & non-Lds alike: Let us examine our own motivations. Do we do anything because we expect eternal kickbacks? Do we pass Jesus' "test" in Luke 17:10 when He said: So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.'"
A servant receives no special "worthiness" accommodation for simply responding with what he's supposed to be doing already! There's no celestial glory in that! There's no godhood-earning in that! A key motivation of a servant is to serve our Lord because a Lord has sovereign oversight of us & others! And a grand motive for us to serve Jesus Christ is because, we the Church, are the eternal Bride of Christ, the Bridegroom whom we love! The family that is forever is this one!!!
28. Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29. Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
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