OK, I have a very heavy question.
I am a born-again Christian, and my hope, indeed my commission, is to try to bring as many people as possible to Christ. Here are my reasons:
1)I am so in love with Jesus; He brings me such joy! I want that for everybody!
2) I am commanded by God to evangelize all. I wish to obey God, who has been so gracious and loving to me.
3) Everyone who becomes a fellow Christian will instantly become my brother and sister, adopted by God. We will spend eternity enjoying each other and worshipping God together forever.
So, what’s in it for the Mormons? Why do they give a fig if anyone other than their family becomes Mormon too? It seems they are all in it for themselves, for what they can get out of it. They become gods and populate their own planets. Why would they care about Joe Schmoe down the street?
This is a serious question. Is it just one of their works? They do it for “points’?
Well, your question may actually draw a slew of responses/answers from some Lds FReepers & ex-Lds Freepers like Reaganaut, Szonian, Colorcountry and Greyfoxx. But notice those plural words (responses/answers). I don’t think it’s possible to narrow down your Q to simply 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 “right answers” because (a) people, including from one Mormon to another, are so different; and (b) your Q is really all about motives.
What motivates Mormons to act on behalf of “Joe Schmoe?” My immediate response is to warn, “Hey, let’s not generalize or stereotype Lds and project what we think as applicable to every Mormon. Motivations involve things internal – hearts we cannot see, much less judge.”
But, still, Mormons themselves have done us a favor in identifying the motives they see all around them. So, while we can’t get into “mind reading” of individual fellow Mormon FReepers, some of them – and other Lds, have conveyed in their own words what their motives are or what they’ve observed in those around them.
Therefore, the best way I could answer your specific Q is to allow Mormons to speak for themselves. I looked thru some Mormon publications to see what they had to say about what motivated them – or how they see people as being motivated. So, below are their words—some of which I leave uncommented…others I’ll comment upon..I’ll start with what I thought were the most positive motives given as encouragement to others…and then I’ll finish with what I believe are off-kilter motives – such as falling into the category of working for eternal life, etc. [Treating God as a “Teacher” who is “grading us”]
Sample of generally positive motives given by Lds writers attempting to encourage others to consider these as prime motivations:
One day, while thumbing through my files, I found a fundamental key to motivation in a quote by President David O. McKay. He said, “What you sincerely in your heart think of Christ will determine what you are, will largely determine what your acts will be.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1951, p. 93.) In other words, what people do or don’t do in a situation will depend on the understanding they have of the reality and role of Christ and upon the degree of loyalty and love they have for him. (C. Max Caldwell, Ensign Magazine, Feb. 1984)
President Hinckley said it this way: “When [an individual] is motivated by great and powerful convictions of truth, then he disciplines himself, not because of demands made by the Church but because of the knowledge within his heart.” Are we sufficiently motivated by “great and powerful convictions of truth”? (Neil L. Andersen, Ensign Magazine, May 2007)
Another Lds writer talked about being in awe of the atonement as motivation enough. Ballard, below, mentions love, testimony, gratitude, a new gospel:
Our love for the Lord and appreciation for the Restoration of the gospel are all the motivation we need to share what gives us much joy and happiness. If you are truly motivated by love and testimony and gratitude, you will quite naturally do all that you can to assist the Lord in “[bringing] to pass the immortality and eternal life” (Moses 1:39) of our Father’s children. (M. Russell Ballard, Ensign Magazine, May 2006, “Creating a Gospel-Sharing Home”)
Ballard mentions Moses 1:39, so let me quote it: For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. (Moses 1:39) [Note: By the Way, I would hope that every Mormon notes that this verse emphasizes that it’s GOD who does the work to yield eternal life in people – not us. It’s HIS glory (not ours) -- and therefore disqualifies ANYBODY seeking godhood glory for themselves.]
Also, sometimes a desire by a given Mormon could be to do what Ballard says – “assist the Lord in ‘bringing to pass…eternal life’” to another…yet strays too far, like Lds “prophet” John Taylor talking about how Mormons are the “saviours of the world.”
One Lds writer cited this as a reason: “Therefore, O ye that embark in the service of God, see that ye serve him with all your heart, might, mind and strength, that ye may stand blameless before God at the last day.” (D&C 4:2.) [Note: On the one hand, it sounds like a “works-based” answer, seeking blamelessness only in ourselves…and I suppose it could be, yet I recognize some Biblical passages which talk about presenting others blameless before God]
Types/categories of motivations recognized by Lds writers (Fear, including fear of punishment; duty/expectations; love for God/Christ; etc.)
My institute teacher once said that there are three primary motivations for obedience. The lowest of these—the telestial motivation, if you will—is fear. We are afraid of the Lord’s punishment for disobedience. This isn’t always compelling because we frequently overlook the consequences of our actions. The terrestrial motivation is duty. We do it because obedience is expected of us by our parents, spouse, friends, or church leaders. This too doesn’t always work because so often selfishness intrudes into our good intentions. The celestial, or purest, motivation is love for Heavenly Father and his Son, Jesus Christ. Now it is only this highest motivation which is compelling enough to keep us totally committed and submissive to the Lord’s will. (Betty Curry Jan. 1988 Ensign Magazine, “Missionary Focus: Assorted Assyrians”)
Motive to succeed; motive to avoid failure: Each member of the Lord’s church should ask himself why he lives God’s commandments and what motivates him to seek the spiritual goals he has set for himself. Remember that fear of punishment, a spiritual motive to avoid failure, is not bad. It is better to obey the commandments because of fear of punishment than to not obey the commandments at all. We will surely be happier if we obey God’s commandments than if we do not, but that happiness will likely be increased if we are motivated to do so by love of virtue rather than by fear of punishment. We will likely find more joy in the achievement of our spiritual goals if we seek them because we want to rather than because we ought to. … Why do we strive to achieve spiritual goals? Why do we try to live God’s commandments? The behavior of many people suggests that the motive to succeed and the motive to avoid failure have their counterparts in the spiritual realm. A person with a high spiritual motive to succeed may be characterized by a love of righteousness, a positive force attracting him toward exaltation. He seeks to attain a spiritual standard of excellence. He strives to achieve spiritual goals because he loves the Lord and his commandments. A person with a high spiritual motive to avoid failure may also have a desire to live the commandments. However, he is motivated more by a negative force repelling him away from the punishments of hell than he is by the positive attraction of the rewards of heaven. If he lives the Lord’s commandments, it is because he feels he ought to rather than because he really wants to. (One-time BYU professor of pyschology Kenneth L. Higbee, “Achieving Spiritual Goals … Why?,” Ensign Magazine, November 1971)
External Motivations: Truth in Love to Mormons Ministries points out that Lds cannot turn down callings very easily. Hence, there is among many Mormons this overwhelming sense of obligation where the motivation is primarily externally based [Caution: Don’t try to guess-pinpoint which Lds this includes…you’d be fishing in most cases] Here, let me give you an example by citing one-time Managing Director of Stake Missions Paul H. Dunn. “President Dunn” was a proven Lds “liar for the Lord” – I’ll mention specifics re: that in my next post …go to this article to see what I mean Mormon Leader Fabricates; Reporter Fired: The Story of Elder Paul H. Dunn … anyway, Dunn, I believe, was telling the truth when he wrote: The Church provides the motivation, encouragement, and information to assist the members in doing what the Lord has asked. Organization comes at the stake level with the coordination of full-time and stake missionary work. (Paul H. Dunn and Hartman Rector Jr., “Sharing the Gospel Today: A Conversation with Presidents Paul H. Dunn and Hartman Rector, Jr.,” Ensign Magazine, April 1973)
How external motivations – demands of the church, for example, often interact with works-righteousness – works that boomerang back to us to make us look better or look good: (Example, Lds general authority Dallin Oaks): I learned this lesson as a young man. I was assigned to visit a less-active member, a successful professional many years older than I. Looking back on my actions, I realize that I had very little loving concern for the man I visited. I acted out of duty, with a desire to report 100 percent on my home teaching. One evening, close to the end of a month, I phoned to ask if my companion and I could come right over and visit him. His chastening reply taught me an unforgettable lesson. “No, I don’t believe I want you to come over this evening,” he said. “I’m tired. I’ve already dressed for bed. I am reading, and I am just not willing to be interrupted so that you can report 100 percent on your home teaching this month.” That reply still stings me because I knew he had sensed my selfish motivation. (Dallin Oak, Liahona, January 2002, “Sharing the Gospel”)
The worst answer: Works-based or glory-based reasons:
The scriptures have a word for gospel service “for the sake of riches and honor”; it is “priestcraft.” (Alma 1:16.) Nephi said, “Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.” (2 Ne. 26:29.). In these latter days, we are commanded to “seek to bring forth and establish the cause of Zion.” (D&C 6:6.) Unfortunately, not all who accomplish works under that heading are really intending to build up Zion or strengthen the faith of the people of God. Other motives can be at work…Although those who serve out of fear of punishment or out of a sense of duty undoubtedly qualify for the blessings of heaven, there are still higher reasons for service. One such higher reason for service is the hope of an eternal reward. This hope—the expectation of enjoying the fruits of our labors—is one of the most powerful sources of motivation. As a reason for service, it necessarily involves faith in God and in the fulfillment of his prophecies. The scriptures are rich in promises of eternal rewards. For example, in a revelation given through the Prophet Joseph Smith in June 1829, the Lord said: “If you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.” (D&C 14:7.) (Dallin H. Oaks, “Why Do We Serve?,” Ensign, Nov 1984)
Note: Although Jesus indeed does talk about “reward,” wages are what we earn on Earth…and the apostle Paul says the wages we earn are death due to our sin (Rom. 6:23). Hence, sadly Oaks reinforces the boomerang view of some “hope of an eternal reward” based upon “commandment keeping” (D&C 14:7). Oaks sadly even concludes: Although those who serve out of fear of punishment or out of a sense of duty undoubtedly qualify for the blessings of heaven… -- I’m sorry, Mr. Oaks, but Jesus Christ qualifies us for heaven – NOT our service!!!
As you read the following, keep in mind that to a Mormon, “exaltation” = highest level of glory & becoming a god: A person with a high spiritual motive to succeed may be characterized by a love of righteousness, a positive force attracting him toward exaltation. He seeks to attain a spiritual standard of excellence. He strives to achieve spiritual goals because he loves the Lord and his commandments. A person with a high spiritual motive to avoid failure may also have a desire to live the commandments. However, he is motivated more by a negative force repelling him away from the punishments of hell than he is by the positive attraction of the rewards of heaven. If he lives the Lord’s commandments, it is because he feels he ought to rather than because he really wants to. The apostle Paul wrote, “For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Rom. 6:23.) The person with a high motive to avoid failure is motivated primarily by the first part of Paul’s statement, while the person with the high motive to succeed is motivated more by the second part of the statement. Both of these types of people may hate sin and desire to live the Lord’s commandments, but the former hates sin through fear of punishment, whereas the latter hates sin through love of virtue. Although both kinds of people may desire to live the Lord’s commandments, we might expect that they would be more receptive to different types of commandments. The person with a high motive to succeed would be concerned with knowing the things he should do, so that he can do those things to prepare himself for exaltation. (One-time BYU professor of pyschology Kenneth L. Higbee, “Achieving Spiritual Goals … Why?,” Ensign Magazine, November 1971)
Do you see the utter disconnect here? This one-time BYU psych professor cites Rom. 6:23 about eternal life being utterly a “gift” of God…but then twice within the same article talks about commandment-keeping and checklist keeping ”so that he can do those things to prepare himself for exaltation.” (Exaltation in Mormonism is NEVER a free gift; it's pure earned "worthiness" for the Mormon...so it's all about Mormon ritualism & Mormon checklist commandment-keeping)
It's on this note, then, that unfortunately, theologically upside-down passages like 2 Nephi 25:23 & Helaman 12:24 can have a spiritually fatal effect upon internal motivations.
Examples:
The LDS church's media relations manager in Salt Lake City issued a statement to an Idaho newspaper earlier this month that stated: "We must work to our limit and then rely upon the merits, mercy and grace of the Holy One of Israel..." IOW, the LDS church expects YOU to do EVERYTHING (the "limit") "before" God kicks in? (Notice the "and then" transition in the statement above). Lds derive this statement from 2 Nephi 25:23:
...ye are saved by grace, AFTER ALL YOU CAN DO." (2 Nephi 25:23) [Mormon, have you done ALL you can do? All YOU can do emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc.??? 'Cause this verse says free grace doesn't kick in UNTIL you do -- that's what the plain meaning of the words "AFTER all" equals.]
Likewise, look at Helaman 12:24 in the Book of Mormon: "...may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for grace, according to their WORKS." (Helaman 12:24) [In other words, the Book of Mormon right there teaches that free grace isn't so free after all, because men have to earn it "according to their works." -- and if men want free grace, they have to earn it...Boy, how that turns the word "grace" on its head & may tend to motivate somebody to do a work to earn something that by definition is beyond laboring for!!!]
My challenge to all, Lds & non-Lds alike: Let us examine our own motivations. Do we do anything because we expect eternal kickbacks? Do we pass Jesus' "test" in Luke 17:10 when He said: So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.'"
A servant receives no special "worthiness" accommodation for simply responding with what he's supposed to be doing already! There's no celestial glory in that! There's no godhood-earning in that! A key motivation of a servant is to serve our Lord because a Lord has sovereign oversight of us & others! And a grand motive for us to serve Jesus Christ is because, we the Church, are the eternal Bride of Christ, the Bridegroom whom we love! The family that is forever is this one!!!
“Every member a missionary.” That is church teaching.
Some, maybe most, like you want to spread their “joy”. They truly believe that without the lds religion a person is lost.
Low attendance at ward and branch meetings puts alot of pressure on the financial end of things. Each ward/branch gets an allocation of money based on attendance each year. Low numbers equals low dollars.
The low attendance thing again, motivates them to bring in new members to help out with all of the “callings”. There are a LOT of jobs within each ward that consume a lot of time and resources. If you have one of those callings and don’t have enough bodies to do the work, well then, you’re going to be motivated to bring in more bodies to help spread the workload.
One that I had heard, though very few spoke of was that those who had not been baptized in the church or were apostates would become servants to those who were worthy and live in the celestial, telestial or terrestial kingdom with their harem of wives. I can’t couch it in exact terms and some of the “kingdoms” may not qualify for servants, but I do remember that being a topic of discussion at one of the priesthood meetings I attended before I quit.
Those are just a few off the top of my head. I’m sure there are many more.
So in other words, the lds can assign a myriad of rationales as to why they need to bring in new members. Not all of those new members will become a god though, they will be servants to those who have qualified to become a god.
SZ
So, what’s in it for the Mormons? Why do they give a fig if anyone other than their family becomes Mormon too? It seems they are all in it for themselves, for what they can get out of it. They become gods and populate their own planets. Why would they care about Joe Schmoe down the street?
This is a serious question. Is it just one of their works? They do it for “points’?
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Colofornian is right, motives vary from one to another, so I will give you my reasons/experience.
There are usually a multitude of reasons why the LDS prostletize.
1) They feel sorry for non-Mormons, especially Born Again Christians. There is this idea that non-Mormons are basically unhappy, they just don’t know it yet. They would be “so much happier” having the truth of Mormonism.
2) There is a lot of pressure to go on a formal LDS mission, RM’s (returned missionaries) are more respected and for women who are not married by their 21st birthday, makes them more desirable to be married and married in the temple. On the mission itself, there is a VERY HUGE emphasis on numbers.
3)There is also a lot of pressure put on members by the leadership. A common phrase is “every member a missionary” and numbers are a big deal.
4) Finally, I was taught that every convert you bring into the church adds to your own glory. Kinda related to the “becoming a God” thing. If you bring in (”save”) several converts then you will “progress” to godhood faster or have more power.
5) As far as obedience, it is, IMO, more obedience to “the church” than to God. Missionary work is one of the “works” expected by members.