Posted on 01/03/2010 10:30:30 PM PST by Gamecock
Some questions Gamecock, what do you think the Presbyterian belief teachs about:
Divorce?
Contraception?
Women in the Ministry?
Homosexual conduct?
Homosexual ‘marriages’?
verdadjusticia WROTE: The dogmas of the Catholic Church are the Holy Spirit speaking through the magisterium.
Dr. Eckleburg ANSWERED:
lol. That lie has no basis in Scripture and actually permits the magisterium to usurp the role of the Holy Spirit in men’s lives and faith.
verdadjusticia RESPONDS:
The magisterium sure could usurp the role of the Holy Ghost, if it was a human fabrication. The Catholic magisterium, in it’s infallible decrees is the Holy Ghost speaking through it’s Church. If it was human it would have changed it’s doctrines or been inconsistent, or invented doctrines out of thin air that contradicted prior doctrines. THERE IS NOT ONE DOCTRINE to which that has happened.
Protestants teachings on the other hand change with the winds, proof that they are of man.
You have a choice, either follow your ever changing man made haughty self interpretations of scripture or trust what “has been believed in the Church everywhere, always”, and by all, till present unchanged, universal in time and space. In all time and all countries the same doctrines
ST. VINCENT OF LERINS [ A. D. 434 ]
[Author - Vincent shows himself also as a man of such remarkable perception that there is a certain timelessness to his writing. What he has to say of preserving the faith and of keeping to the rule of faith fits any period and all times, and might have been written yesterday.
Vincent develops the notion that our faith is based on the authority of divine Law, which must be understood and interpreted in the light of the Tradition of the Church. And this Tradition, if it need be discovered, is quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus crediturn est: what has been believed in the Church everywhere, always, and by all. Vincent’s doctrinal principle does not exclude progress and development; but it does exclude change. For Vincent, progress is a developmental growth of doctrine in its own sphere; change, however, implies a transformation into something different.
ST. VINCENT OF LERINS says:
With great zeal and closest attention, therefore, I frequently inquired of many men, eminent for their holiness and doctrine, how I might, in a concise and, so to speak, general and ordinary way, distinguish the truth of the Catholic faith from the falsehood of heretical depravity. I received almost always the same answer from all of them, that if I or anyone else wanted to expose the frauds and escape the snares of the heretics who rise up, and to remain intact and sound in a sound faith, it would be necessary, with the help of the Lord, to fortify that faith in a twofold manner: first, of course, by the authority of the divine law; and then, by the Tradition of the Catholic Church. [Here, perhaps, someone may ask: “If the canon of the Scriptures be perfect, and in itself more than suffices for everything, why is it necessary that the authority of ecclesiastical interpretation be joined to it?” Because, quite plainly, Sacred Scripture, by reason of its own depth, is not accepted by everyone as having one and the same meaning. The same passage is interpreted in one way by some, in another by others, so that it can almost appear as if there are as many opinions as there are men. Novatian explains a passage in one way, Sabellius in another, Donatus in another; Anus, Eunomius, Macedonius in another; Photinus, Apollinaris, Priscillian in another; Jovinian, Pelagius, Caelestius in another; and afterwards in still another, Nestorius. And thus, because of so many distortions of such various errors, it is highly necessary that the line of prophetic and apostolic interpretation be directed in accord with the norm of the ecclesiastical and Catholic meaning. In the Catholic Church herself every care must be taken that we may hold fast to that which has been believed everywhere, always, and by all. For this is then truly and properly Catholic. That is what the force and meaning of the name itself declares, a name that embraces all almost universally. This general rule will be correctly applied if we pursue universality, antiquity, and agreement. And we follow universality in this way, if we confess this one faith to be true, which is confessed by the whole Church throughout the whole world; antiquity, however, if we in no way depart from those interpretations which, it is clear our holy predecessors and fathers solemnized; and likewise agreement, if, in this very antiquity, we adopt the definitions and theses of all or certainly of almost all priests and teachers.
To announce, therefore, to Catholic Christians something other than that which they have received has never been permitted, is nowhere permitted, and never will be permitted. And to anathematize those who announce anything other than that which has been received once and for all has never been unnecessary, is nowhere unnecessary and never will be unnecessary.
He is a true and genuine Catholic who loves the truth of God, the Church, and the Body of Christ; who puts nothing else before divine religion and the Catholic Faith, neither the authority nor the love nor the genius nor the eloquence nor the philosophy of any man whatsoever, but, despising all that and being fixed, stable, and persevering in his faith, is determined in himself to hold and believe that only which he knows the Catholic Church has held universally and from ancient times.
“Guard” he says, “what has been committed.” What does it mean, “what has been committed”? It is what has been faithfully entrusted to you, not what has been discovered by you; what you have received, not what you have thought up; a matter not of ingenuity, but of doctrine; not of private acquisition, but of public Tradition; a matter brought to you, not put forth by you, in which you must be not the author but the guardian, not the founder but the sharer, not the leader, but the follower. “Guard,” he says, “what has been committed.”Keep the talent of the Catholic Faith inviolate and unimpaired. What has been faithfully entrusted, let it remain in your possession, let it be handed on by you. You have received gold, so give gold. For my part I do not want you to substitute one thing for mother; I do not want you impudently to put lead in place of gold, or, fraudulently brass. I do not want the appearance of gold, but the real thing. O Timothy, O priest. O interpreter, O teacher, if a divine gift has made you suitable in genius, in experience, in doctrine to be the Beseleel of the spiritual tabernacle, cut out the precious gems of divine dogma, shape them faithfully, ornament them wisely, add splendor, grace and beauty to them! By your expounding it, may that now be understood more clearly which formerly was believed even in its obscurity. May posterity, by means of you, rejoice in understanding what in times past was venerated without understanding, Nevertheless, teach the same that you have learned, so that if you say something anew, it is not something new that you say.
But perhaps someone is saying: “Will there, then, be no progress of religion in the Church of Christ?” Certainly there is, and the greatest. For who is there so envious toward men and so exceedingly hateful toward God, that he would try to prohibit progress? But it is truly progress and not a change of faith. What is meant by progress is that something is brought to an advancement within itself, by change, something is transformed from one thing into another. It is necessary, therefore, that understanding, knowledge, and wisdom grow and advance strongly and mightily as much in individuals as in the group, as much in one man as in the whole Church, and this gradually according to age and the times; and this must take place precisely within its own kind, that is, in the same teaching, in the same meaning, and in the same opinion. The progress of religion in souls is like the growth of bodies, which, in the course of years, evolve and develop, but still remain what they were. . . . For example: Our fathers of old sowed the seeds of the wheat of faith in this field which is the Church. Certainly it would be unjust and incongruous if we, their descendents, were to gather, instead of the genuine truth of wheat, the noxious error of weeds. On the contrary, it is right and logically proper that there be no discrepancy between what is first and what is last and that we reap, in the increment of wheat from the wheat of instruction, the fruit also of dogma. And thus, although in the course of time something evolved from those first seeds and has now expanded under careful cultivation, nothing of the characteristics of the seeds is changed. Granted that appearance, beauty, and distinction has been added, still, the same nature of each kind remains. May it never happen that the rose garden of the Catholic sense be turned into thistles and thorns. May it never happen, I say, that darnel and monk’s hood suddenly spring up in the spiritual paradise of shoots of cinnamon and balsam.
We must most studiously investigate and follow this ancient agreement of the holy fathers, not in all the lesser questions of the divine Law, but certainly and especially in the rule of faith. . . . But only those opinions of the fathers are to he brought forward which were expressed by those who lived, taught, and persevered wisely and constantly in the holy Catholic faith and communion, and who merited either to die faithfully in Christ or to be killed gloriously for Christ. Those men, moreover, are to be believed, in accord with the rule that only that is to be held as undoubted, certain, and valid, which either all or most of them have confirmed by receiving, holding, and handing on in one and the same sense, manifestly, frequently, and persistently, as if by a council of teachers in mutual agreement. But whatever was thought outside of or even against the opinion of all, although it be by a holy and learned man, or although by a confessor and martyr, must be removed from the authority of the common and public and general opinion, as being among his personal and peculiar and private views. In this way we shall not, as is the sacrilegious custom of heretics and schismatics, reject the ancient truth of universal dogma, to pursue, with great danger to our eternal salvation, the novel error of one man.
Still no response to these I see.
ST. VINCENT OF LERINS (CA. 400-CA. 450)
CONFESSOR OF THE CHURCH
“What then should a Catholic do if some part of the Church were to separate itself from communion with the universal Faith? What other choice can he make but to prefer to the gangrenous and corrupted member the whole of the body that is sound. And if some new contagion
were to try to poison no longer a small part of the Church, but all of the Church at the same time, then he will take the greatest care to attach himself to antiquity which, obviously, can no longer be seduced by any lying novelty.” (Commonitorium)
“he will take the greatest care to attach himself to antiquity which, obviously, can no longer be seduced by any lying novelty.”
Antiquity is what has always been taught. The infallible doctrines that NEVER can be changed.
There does not exist one original doctrine among Protestants that has not been changed to something else by other Protestants.
Yuk, it was dreadful - I'm sure they do better than that!
But then I remember in the early 70’s the Priest at school mass playing ‘you've got a Friend’. Poor man I think he thought it made him look cool. As youths we were embarrassed by his ‘I understand you’ sincerity. Last thing over here High Anglicans are held in some regard but Anglco-Catholics are looked on with serious suspicion - liberality and homosexuality in their ranks.
Passing odd.
And . . . ?
What does Catholic dogma require that the Church do about heretics?
Those who know and love Jesus as Lord are one, in Him--even if in different human organizations.
It is also a fact that all kinds of people--including important theologians--with all kinds of contradictory beliefs call themselves Roman Catholic--and have not been formally, publicly removed from the Roman Church (and yes, I know about the cop-out called latae sententiae). If you take officially stated doctrines, plus all the varied opinions of baptized Roman Catholics (Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy come to mind....)(not to mention, variations in Tradition), you have as many or more variations of belief and practice as you find amidst Protestants. Not only that, but in the USA alone, there are dozens of different groups which claim to be "Roman Catholic" who have competing claims of doctrine, and leadership, to the official Roman denomination. Mel Gibson, for example, is associated with one of these.
The Roman Church itself--since it originally consisted of only one of the 5 original principalities of the Church--broke away from the Eastern Church in AD 1054. Thereafter it only maintained its internal unity through force of law...routinely persecuting or executing those who disagreed. From the Eastern point of view it is the Latin church which was schismatic...
verdadjusticia had WRITTEN:It has not decided on an definitive answer to ONE SINGLE QUESTION! In almost 500 years it still has not even decided if Jesus Christ is God, or if you must be baptized to be saved.
I don't know of a single orthodox Protestant denomination that has not consistently maintained Jesus as God since they were begun.... All agree too, that Christians should be baptized--even as we find the precise meaning of baptism holy and mysterious. Yes, recently liberal groups have denied the essentials (just like certain individuals and professors within Roman Catholicism)...and this is why new, conservative Churches have formed--and are growing, even as mainline apostate denominations are dying. The core doctrines amidst the conservatives are the same as 100...or 500 years ago. Do we have the same teachings on say....slavery as 200 years ago? No. Does Rome? I know I for one recite (and sincerely believe) the Nicene Creed every week. Every conservative Protestant denomination I know of also subscribes to the doctrines found in the Nicene creed.
AnalogReigns ASKED: Your argument is nonsensical, as, every group claiming to be Christian also claims to have the best (or only) understanding of truth. (actually that is a statement, not a question)
verdadjusticia ANSWERS: That is not accurate, for not one Protestant organization has maintained FOREVER the same doctrines. Truth is unchangeable. Protestants do not claim absolute truth. ONLY the Catholic Church has unchanged doctrines that are absolute truth and are unalterable. There is no other religion that has servived the test of time on their so-called “truths’. they have abandoned them all.
Recognizing God's Word be absolute truth alone, is hardly abandoing "so called "truths"" Since you lump traditional Protestants in with Mormons or anyone else who claims the name "Christian" I have no idea what specific group you are criticizing. It's about as helpful as criticizing "white peoples religion..."
Truth is unchangeable, however, human beings are fallible--even humans who are popes, or who have belonged to Church councils. Therefore, except that which we KNOW is revealed from God--connected directly to the Apostles who were eye-witnesses of Jesus, that is the holy Scriptures, we cannot make (fallible, human opinions) "unchangeable" or else we become like the ancient Persian emperors--having bad laws that can never be undone--and that places fallible humans over and above God's holy Word.
AnalogReigns ASKED: to say Protestant groups haven’t agreed on everything, therefore that makes them all false, is like an atheist saying, “All religions for thousands of years have not decided on an definitive answer to ONE SINGLE QUESTION! Therefore they must ALL be false!” That’s a statement which I know you’ll agree, is ridiculous (even though that’s what your typical agnostic/atheist will say...).Once more, a statement. Discussion is impossible without the distinction between questions and statements
verdadjusticia ANSWERED: I don’t agree, there is only one religion that has decided the definitive answer to those questions which it has defined dogmatically. So, your analogy is wrong misapplied to Catholicism.
That's ridiculous. Many religions have defined dogmas. My point stands....To say that Protestant (which you seem to define as any and all groups not Roman Catholic) differ on points of doctrine, or have changed points of (minor) doctrine over time it proves they are false is the same as saying since religions in general differ, or have changed over time, they are therefore all false. That's a logical fallacy as ALL religious change to some degree over time.
AnalogReigns ASKED: Historically the only proven alternative to divided Christian groups—is a state enforced official religion (which until the 1500s was Roman Catholicism in western Europe) something which no true American lover of liberty will endorse.Once again, a STATEMENT, NOT a question...
verdadjusticia ANSWERED: the unity of doctrine of the Catholic Church has nothing to do with the populace. The Catholic Church today numbers about 1 billion people. If it was only 50,000, the unity of doctrine would still prevail. Protestants have no unity of doctrine. They actually have no defined doctrines which they have not changed.
Unity of doctrine? LIke how your average (baptized, Roman catholic) Italian believes, verses your average RC Philipino vs. your average RC American? How about what popes taught as 100 years ago...or 500 years ago, verses now? Unchanged? What dream world do you live in?
One example will suffice: Capitol punishment was not protested in principle by Rome until the last 30 years or so (correspondingly when secular Europe--home of the Vatican--also rejected capitol punishment). So somehow, the position of the Roman Church, the same institution and leaders which rejoiced in the murder of literally tens of thousands of Calvinist Protestant civilains in the 1570s, compared to today--when it protests the just execution of the worst murderers imaginable, is unchanged? Silly on its face.
The Catholic magisterium, in it’s infallible decrees is the Holy Ghost speaking through it’s Church. If it was human it would have changed it’s doctrines or been inconsistent, or invented doctrines out of thin air that contradicted prior doctrines. THERE IS NOT ONE DOCTRINE to which that has happened.Protestants teachings on the other hand change with the winds, proof that they are of man.
You have a choice, either follow your ever changing man made haughty self interpretations of scripture or trust what “has been believed in the Church everywhere, always”, and by all, till present unchanged, universal in time and space. In all time and all countries the same doctrines
Originated by heretics and condemned as heretical by two Popes in the fifth and sixth centuries, the dogma of the Assumption of Mary comes to mind.
Cordially,
“Originated by heretics and condemned as heretical by two Popes in the fifth and sixth centuries, the dogma of the Assumption of Mary comes to mind.”
A unique view. Any actual evidence to back up this claim?
How does the American Presbyterian Denominations differ from the 318 orders of the Roman Catholic Church? According to the Catholic Church they all have various rules, regulations and traditions. Seems to me the American Presbyterian Denominations is far less complicated.
Adorers (Adorers of the Blood of Christ) - A.S.C. (1834)
Adornos (Clerics Regular Minor) - C.R.M. (1563)
Adrian Dominican Sisters (1233/1853)
Albertines (1888)
Alexians - C.F.A. (1469)
Angelic Sisters of St. Paul - A.S.S.P. (1535)
Apostles of the Sacred Heart of Jesus - A.S.C.J. (1894)
Assumptionists - A.A. (1845)
Little Sisters of the Assumption (1865)
Religious of the Assumption (1839)
Atonement, Society of the (Atonement Friars/Graymoor Friars/Sisters) - S.A. (1909)
Augustinian Recollects - (Order of the Augustinians Recollects) - O.A.R. (1912)
Augustinian Sisters, Servants of Jesus and Mary - A.S.J.M. (1827)
Augustinians (Order of Saint Augustine) - O.S.A. (1244)
Augustinians of Kansas: Society of Saint Augustine - S.S.A. (1981)
Baladites (Order of Lebanese Maronite) - O.L.M. (1694)
Barnabites (Clerics Regular of Saint Paul) - B., C.R.S.P. (1530)
Benedictines (Order of St. Benedict) - O.S.B. (529)
Benedictine Oblates of St Scholastica
Benedictine Sisters of Perpetual Adoration (1874)
Bernardine Cistercian Sisters of Esquiermes
Bernardines (also see Cistercians) (1098)
Bon Secours Sisters - C.B.S. (1824)
Brigidine Sisters (1807)
Bridgettines (Order of Our Savior) - O.Ss.S. (1350)
Brotherhood of Hope - B.H. (1980)
Brothers Hospitallers of St. John of God (Order of Hospitallers) - O.H. (1572)
Brothers of Christian Instruction of St Gabriel - F.S.G. (1711)
Brothers of Mercy of Our Lady of Perpetual Help - f.m.m. (1839)
Brothers of the Christian Schools (Lasallian Brothers or Christian Brothers) - F.S.C. (1680)
Brothers of the Poor of St. Francis of Assisi (Brothers CFP located in the United States, Belgium, The Netherlands, and Brazil, Regular Third Order) (1861)
Brothers of the Sacred Heart - S.C. (1821)
FIC Brothers-FIC
Camaldolese (Camaldolese Benedictines) - O.S.B. Cam. (1200s)
Camaldolese Hermits of the Congregation of Monte Corona - Er.Cam.
Camillians (Ordo Clericorum Regolarium Ministrantium Infirmis)- M.I. (1591)
Canonesses of St. Augustine - C.R.O.S.A.
Canons Regular of Saint John Cantius - S.J.C. (2006)
Canons Regular of the Holy Cross OSC (1311)
Canons Regular Canons Regular of St. Augustine CRSA (1100)
Canons Regular of the Immaculate Conception (1871)
Canons Regular of the New Jerusalem - C.R.N.J. (2002)
Canons Regular of the Order of the Holy Cross (Crosiers) (1210)
Canons Regular of Premontre (Norbertines) (1121)
Canossians (Canossian Daughters and Sons of Charity) - F.D.D.C. (1808)
Capuchins (Order of Friars Minor Capuchin) - O.F.M. Cap. (1520)
Capuchin Poor Clares (1538)
Carmelites (Order of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel) - O.Carm., O.C.D., O.C.D.S. (1209)
Carmelites of Mary Immaculate - C.M.I. (1831)
Carmelite Daughters of the Divine Heart of Jesus - D.C.J. (1891)
Carmelite Sisters for the Aged and Infirm (1929)
Carmelite Sisters of the Most Sacred Heart of Los Angeles (1904)
Carthusians - O.Cart. (1084)
Celestines (defunct) (1244)
Cistercians (Cistercians of the Ancient Observance)- O.Cist./S.O.Cist (1098)
Claretians (Claretian Missionaries) - C.M.F. (1849)
Claretian Sisters (1876)
Comboni Missionaries (1867)
Community of Betania
Companions of the Cross - C.C. (1988)
Company of Mary Our Lady - O.D.N. (1607)
Congregatio Immaculati Cordis Mariae - C.I.C.M. (1862)
Congregation of the Blessed Sacrament - S.S.S. (1659)
Congregation of Christian Brothers (Christian Brothers of Ireland) - C.F.C. (1802)
Congregation of the Disciples of the Lord - C.D.D. (1931)
Congregation of Divine Providence - C.D.P. (1827)
Congregation of Holy Cross - C.S.C. (1837)
Congregation of Maronite Lebanese Missionaries - M.L.[kreimists.org] (1865)
Congregation of the Mission - C.M. (1624)
Congregation of the Mother Co-Redemptrix - C.M.C. (1909)
Congregation of Notre Dame - C.N.D. (1653)
Congregation of Our Lady of the Missions (1861)
Congregation of the Sisters of the Resurrection (1891)
Congregation of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary - SS.CC. (1800)
Congregation of St. Basil - C.S.B. (1822)
Congregation of St. Joseph - C.S.J. (1873)
Congregation of St. Therese of Lisieux, Cstbrothers, Kerala, India (1931)
Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy (Divine Mercy Sisters) - O.L.M. (1862)
Conventual Franciscans (Conventuals or Order of Friars Minor Conventual) - O.F.M. Conv. (1209)
Daughters of Charity - D.C. (1633)
Daughters of Divine Charity - F.D.C. (1868)
Daughters of Divine Love (1969)
Daughters of the Holy Spirit - D.H.S. (1706)
Daughters of Mary of the Immaculate Conception (1904)
Daughters of Our Lady of Compassion - D.O.L.C (1892)
Daughters of St. Francis of Assisi - Lacon, Illinois (1894)
Daughters of St. Paul - F.S.P. (1915)
Daughters of Wisdom (1707)
Dehonians (Priests of the Sacred Heart of Jesus) - S.C.J. (1878)
Discalced Augustinians - O.A.D. (1592)
Discalced Carmelites - O.C.D. (1593)
Disciples of the Lord - C.D.D. (1931)
Divine Word Missionaries - S.V.D. (1875)
Dominican Nuns of the Perpetual Rosary (1880)
Dominicans (Order of Friars Preachers) - O.P. (1216)
Dominican Sisters of the Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin (1856)
Dominican Sisters of Hawthorne (1900)
Dominican Sisters of the Immaculate Conception - O.P. (1861)
Dominican Sisters of St. Cecilia - O.P. (1860)
Dottrinari (Congregazione dei Preti della Dottrina Cristiana) - D.C. (1592)
Eudists (Congregation of Jesus and Mary) - C.I.M. (1643)
English Benedictine Congregation - O.S.B. (1216)
Fathers of Mercy - (Congregatio Presbyterorum a Misericordia) - C.P.M. (1808)
Felician Sisters (Congregation of the Sisters of St. Felix of Cantalice) - C.S.S.F. (1855)
Franciscan Apostolic Sisters - F.A.S. (1954)
Franciscan Brothers of Brooklyn - O.S.F. (1858)
Franciscan Brothers of the Eucharist - F.B.E. (2004)
Franciscan Brothers of Peace - F.B.P. (1982)
Franciscan Clarist Congregation
Franciscan Friars (Order of Friars Minor) - O.F.M. (1209)
Franciscan Friars of the Renewal - C.F.R. (1987)
Franciscan Friars of the Third Order Regular - T.O.R. (1447)Franciscan Sisters of the Family of Mary
Franciscan Handmaids of Mary (1915)
Franciscan Hospitaller Sisters of the Immaculate Conception - F.H.I.C. (1876)
Franciscan Minims of the Perpetual Help of Mary - f.m. (1942)
Franciscans of the Immaculate - F.I.
Franciscan Missionaries of the Divine Motherhood - F.M.D.M. (1887)
Franciscan Missionaries of the Eternal Word - M.F.V.A. (1987)
Franciscan Missionaries of Mary - F.M.M. (1877)
Franciscan Missionary Sisters of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (1859)
Franciscan Missionary Sisters of the Infant Jesus (1879)
Franciscan Servants of Jesus (1997)
Franciscan Sisters of Christian Charity - O.S.F. (1869)
Franciscan Sisters of the Eucharist - F.S.E. (1973)
Franciscan Sisters of the Family of Mary
Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate Conception - F.S.I.C.
Franciscan Sisters of Mary Immaculate (1893)
Franciscan Sisters of Penance of the Sorrowful Mother - T.O.R. (1988)
Franciscan Sisters of Perpetual Adoration - O.S.F. (1849)
Fransalians (Missionaries of St. Francis de Sales) - M.S.F.S. (1838)
Good Shepherd Sisters - R.G.S. (1641)
Grey Nuns - G.N.S.H. (1738)
Handmaids of the Blessed Sacrament and of Charity - A.A.S.C. (1950)
Handmaids of the Precious Blood - H.P.B. (1947)
Handmaids of the Sacred Heart of Jesus - A.A.S.C. (1877)
Handmaids of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, Mary and Joseph (1978)
Hermits of Saint Bruno - H.S.B.
Holy Cross Fathers (Congregation of Holy Cross) - C.S.C. (1837)
Holy Spirit Adoration Sisters (Pink Sisters) - S.Sp.S.A.P. (1896)
Hospital Sisters of the Mercy of Jesus (1200s)
Infant Jesus Sisters (Nicolas Barre) - I.J. (1666)
Institut du Clergé Patriarcal de Bzommar - I.C.P.B. (1749)
Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest - I.C.R.S.S. (1990)
Institute of the Incarnate Word - I.V.E. (1984)
Jesuits (Society of Jesus) - S.J. (1540)
Josephite Fathers (St. Joseph’s Society of the Sacred Heart) - S.S.J. (1893)
Legion of Christ - L.C. (founded 1941, approved 1983)
Little Brothers of the Gospel - (1956)
Little Brothers of Jesus - (1933)
Little Brothers of St Francis - (1970) (l.b.s.f)
Little Flower Congregation (CST Fathers) (1931)
Little Sisters of the Assumption (1865)
Little Sisters of the Gospel - (1963)
Little Sisters of Jesus - (1933)
Little Sisters of Jesus and Mary (1974)
Little Sisters of the Poor - L.S.P. (ca. 1700s)
Lovers of the Holy Cross (1670)
Loreto Sisters (Institute of the Blessed Virgin Mary) - I.B.V.M. (1609)
Marian Fathers - M.I.C. (1673)
Marian Sisters (Marian Sisters of the Diocese of Lincoln) - M.S. (1952)
Marianists (Society of Mary) - S.M. (1817)
Marianist Sisters (Daughters of Mary Immaculate) - F.M.I. (1817)
Marianites of Holy Cross - M.S.C. (1841)
Marist Brothers - F.M.S. (1817)
Marists (Society of Mary) - S. M.(1816)
Maryknoll (Catholic Foreign Mission Society of America) - M.M. (1911)
Mercedarians (Order of Our Lady of Mercy) - O. de M. (1218)
Miles Christi - M.C. (1984)
Mission Helpers of The Sacred Heart - M.H.S.H. (1890)
Missionaries of Charity - M.C. (1950)
Missionaries of La Salette - M.S. (1852)
Missionaries of Mary - (2007)
Missionaries of St. Charles Borromeo) - C.S. (1887)
Missionaries of the Gospel of Life (2005)
Missionaries of the Poor - M.O.P. (1981)
Missionaries of the Precious Blood (Precious Blood Fathers) - C.PP.S. (1815)
Missionaries of the Sacred Heart - M.S.C. (1854)
Missionaries of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary (1836)
Missionary Congregation for the Blessed Sacrament
Missionary Society of St. Columban Columbans - S.S.C. (1916)
Monastic Fraternities of Jerusalem (1975)
Montfort Missionaries (Company of Mary) - S.M.M. (1705)
Norbertines or Premonstratensians (Canons Regular of Prémontré) - C.R.P., O.Praem. (1120)
Oblate Apostles of the Two Hearts - O.A.T.H. (1995)
Oblate Sisters of Providence - O.S.P. (1829)
Oblates Of Mary Immaculate - O.M.I. (1816)
Oblates of St. Joseph - O.S.J. (1878)
Oblates Of The Virgin Mary - O.M.V. (1827)
Olivetans (Order of Our Lady of Mount Olivet) (1313)
Oratorians (Oratory of St. Philip Neri) - C.O., Cong. Orat. (1500s)
Order of the Imitation of Christ - O.I.C. (1930)
Order of Sempringham (Gilbertines) - (1148-1538)
Order of St. Elisabeth O.S.E. (1622)
Pallottines (Society of the Catholic Apostolate) - S.A.C. (1835)
Paris Foreign Missions Society (Missions Etrangères de Paris) - M.E.P. (1658)
Passionists (Congregation of the Passion) - C.P. (1720)
Passionist Sisters (1850s)
Patrician Brothers - F.S.P. (1808)
Pauline Fathers (Order of Saint Paul the First Hermit) - O.S.P.P.E. (1250)
Paulist Fathers (Missionary Society of Saint Paul the Apostle) - C.S.P. (1858)
Piarists (Clerics Regulars Poors of the Mother of God of the Pious Schools) - Sch.P. (1617)
Pious Disciples of the Divine Master - P.D.D.M. (1924)
Pontifical Congregation of the Benedictine Sisters of the Reparation of the Holy Face (1950)
Poor Clares (Nuns of the Order of St. Clare/(Order of Poor Ladies) - O.S.C. (1212)
Poor Clare Nuns - Joliet, Ill.
Poor Clares of Santa Barbara - Santa Barbara, Calif.
Poor Clare Nuns of Perpetual Adoration (1854)
Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon - Pauperes commilitones Christi Templique Solomonici (1129-1312)
Sisters of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary - P.B.V.M. (1775)
Presentation Brothers - F.P.M. (1802)
Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter - F.S.S.P. (1988)
Putra Puteri Carmel
Racine Dominican Sisters (1862)
Redemptorists (Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer) - C.Ss.R. (1732)
Les Religieuses de Notre-Dame-du-Sacre-Coeur (Dieppe, New Brunswick, Canada) (1924)
Religious of the Assumption - R.A. (1839)
Religious of the Sacred Heart of Mary - R.S.H.M. (1849)
Religious Sisters of Mercy of Alma, Michigan - R.S.M.
Religious Sisters of Charity (1815)
Resurrectionists - C.R. (1836)
Rogationists of the Heart of Jesus - R.C.J. (1897)
Rosminians (Institute of Charity) - I.C. (1828)
Salesians of St. John Bosco - S.D.B. (1857)
Salesian Sisters (Daughters of Mary Help of Christian) - F.M.A. (1872)
Salvatorians (Society of the Divine Savior) - S.D.S. (1881)
Salvatorians (Basilian Salvatorian Order - A Melkite Community) - bso (1724) (Always Lower-Cased)
School Sisters of Christ the King (1976)
School Sisters of Notre Dame - S.S.N.D. (1833)
School Sisters of the Third Order of St Francis (1873)
Servites (Order of Friars, Servants of Mary) - O.S.M. (1233)
Sinsinawa Dominican Sisters (1847)
Sister Adorers of the Precious Blood - R.P.G. (1861)
Sisters Adorers of the Royal Heart of Jesus Christ Sovereign Priest (2004)
Sisters of Adoration, Slaves of the Blessed Sacrament and of Charity (1850)
Sisters of the Apostolic Carmel (1870)
Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament (1891)
Sisters of the Cenacle - r.c. (1826)
Sisters of Charity - S.C. (1633)
Sisters of Charity of Saints Bartolomaea Capitanio & Vincenza Gerosa, Milan, Itlay - SCCG (1832)
Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati (1829)
Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth (1858)
Sisters of Charity of New York (1846)
Sisters of Charity of the Blessed Virgin Mary - B.V.M. (1831)
Sisters of Charity of the Immaculate Conception (St. John, New Brunswick, Canada) (1854)
Sisters of Charity of the Incarnate Word (1866)
Sisters of Charity of Jesus and Mary (1803)
Sisters of Charity of Our Lady of Mercy (South Carolina) (1829)
Sisters of Charity of Providence - SP (1844)
Sisters of Charity of Saint Elizabeth (1859)
Sisters of Charity Federation in the Vincentian-Setonian Tradition
Sisters of Charity of Saint Vincent de Paul - Halifax (Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada) (1849)
Vincentian Sisters of Charity (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) (1902)
Sisters of the Destitute (Kerala, India) (1927)
Sisters of the Divine Compassion (1886)
Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill (Pennsylvania) (1870)
Sisters of the Holy Cross - C.S.C. (1837)
Sisters of the Holy Family (1837)
Sisters of the Holy Family of Nazareth (1875)
Sisters of the Holy Names of Jesus and Mary - S.N.J.M. (1844)
Sisters of the Immaculate Conception of Castres
Sisters of Jesus, Our Hope
Sisters of Life - S.V. (1991)
Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist - O.P. (1997)
Sisters of Mercy - R.S.M. (1831)
Sisters of Notre Dame de Namur - S.N.D., S.N.D. de N. (1803)
Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy (1862)
Sisters of Providence of St. Vincent de Paul (Kingston) - SP
Sisters of La Retraite
Sisters of Saint Agnes (1858)
Sisters of Saint Dorothy
Sisters of Saint Elizabeth (1842)
Sisters of St. Francis of Assisi (1849)
Sisters of St Francis of the Martyr St George - F.S.G.M. (1869)
Sisters of St. Francis of Penance and Christian Charity (1835)
Sisters of Saint Francis of Rochester, Minnesota (1877)
Sisters of St Joseph (AKA Sisters of Saint Joseph of Medaille) - C.S.J. (1650)
Sisters of Saint Joseph of Bourg or S.S.J. (1650)
Sisters of St. Joseph of Chambéry (1812)
Sisters of St. Joseph of Peace (1884)
Sisters of St. Joseph of the Sacred Heart - S.S.J. (1866)
Sisters of St. Joseph of the Third Order of St. Francis (1901)
Sisters of Saint Martha (Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada) (1900)
Sisters of St Rita (1911)
Sisters of St Therese of the Child Jesus (St Therese Sisters - Tanzania) - S.S.Th.
Sisters of Social Service - S.S.S. (1926)
Sisters of the Visitation - Sisters of the Visitation, Toledo, Ohio (1610)
Sisters, Servants of the Immaculate Heart of Mary – I.H.M. (1845)
Sisters, Servants of the Lord and the Virgin of Matará - S.S.V.M. (1988)
Sisters, Servants of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus (Cresson, PA; Poland; Vatican City) - S.S.C.J. (1894)
Society of African Missions (Societas Missionum ad Afros) - S.M.A. (1850)
Society of the Helpers of the Holy Souls (1856)
Society of the Holy Child Jesus - S.H.C.J. (1846)
Society of Jesus - S.J.or S.I. (1534)
Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity - S.O.L.T. (1958)
Society of St. Edmund S.S.E. (1843)
Society of Saint Paul - S.S.P. (1914)
Society of the Sacred Heart - R.S.C.J. (1800)
Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta (Order of Malta) - S.M.O.M. (1099)
Spiritans or Holy Ghost Fathers (Congregation of the Holy Ghost) - C.S.Sp. (1703)
Stigmatines (Congregation of the Sacred Stigmata) - C.S.S. (1816)
Sulpician Fathers (Society of Saint Sulpice) - S.S., P.S.S. (1642)
Tertiary Sisters of St. Francis - Cameroon (1700)
Teutonic Order (1190)
Theatines (Congregation of Clerics Regular) - C.R. (1524)
Theatines Nuns (Congregation of Theatines of Immaculate Conception) - T.I.C. (1633)
Trappists (Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance) - O.C.R., O.C.S.O. (1662)
Trinitarians (Order of the Most Holy Trinity) - O.SS.T. (1194)
Ursulines (Ursuline Nuns of the Roman Union) - O.S.U. (1535)
Verbum Dei Missionary Fraternity - M.V.D.F. (1963)
Viatorians (Clerics of Saint Viator) - C.S.V. (1831)
Heralds of the Gospel ( Virgo Flos Carmeli and Regina Virginum) - E.P. (February 22, 2001)
Vincentian Congregation (VC) (1904)
Visitation Nuns - Sisters of the Visitation, Toledo, Ohio (1610)
(Visitation Nuns - Second Federation of the Visitation Order) (1610)
Vocationists (The Society of Divine Vocations) - S.D.V. (1927)
White Fathers - M.Afr. (1868)
Xaverian Brothers - C.F.X. (1839)
Xaverian Missionaries (Missionary Society of St. Francis Xavier) - S.X. (1895)
Because at the end of the day, all of those orders are equally Catholic - operating within the same system, having the same head on earth representing Christ the Head in heaven, and believing the same core of doctrines (the erroneous beliefs of individual members notwithstanding). Also, diocesan priests and the vast majority of laypeople fit into the 319th Group - none of the above - yet they are all equally Catholic.
To a degree, I suppose the same could be said about the American Presbyterian denominations, in that they all would have a great similarity in beliefs, and perhaps would even have no issue with members receiving communion in the other denominations' churches (I honestly don't know that one way or the other).
However, there must be some difference in belief or practice that is so great between those denominations that they cannot consider themselves to be one organization under one head; that is the difference.
re: Originated by heretics and condemned as heretical by two Popes in the fifth and sixth centuries, the dogma of the Assumption of Mary comes to mind.
AnalogReigns ASKED:
Unity of doctrine? Like how your average (baptized, Roman catholic) Italian believes, verses your average RC Filipino vs. your average RC American? How about what popes taught as 100 years ago...or 500 years ago, verses now? Unchanged? What dream world do you live in?
verdadjusticia ANSWERED:
All Catholics anywhere in the world have to believe the defined doctrines of the Church, or they are not Catholics. By everything that you wrote in your posting, it appears that you are not aware of what those doctrines are
Yes, Unity of doctrine! Like how your average (baptized, Roman Rite Catholic) Italian , Philipino and American, and Eastern Rite Catholic Syrian, all Catholics, have to believe the same doctrines. Yes, the popes taught as 100 years ago...or 500 years ago, same doctrines verses now, Unchanged. It is reality, not a dream world. Here are some unchanged doctrines, there are many others.
- The Holy Trinity
- Jesus Christ is God
- The Incarnation
- The Resurrection
- the Real Presence
- The pope is infallible when he declares himself as such on matters of Faith and Morals
- The Catholic Church is the final authority on Scripture.
-Purgatory
- Marriage is indissoluble
- Use of contraceptives are forbidden, and a mortal sin
- a Catholic who dies with one unconfessed mortal sin will not be saved.
- There are seven sacraments
- The Assumption
- The Immaculate Conception
AnalogReigns WROTE:
One example will suffice: Capitol punishment was not protested in principle by Rome until the last 30 years or so (correspondingly when secular Europe—home of the Vatican—also rejected capitol punishment). So somehow, the position of the Roman Church, the same institution and leaders which rejoiced in the murder of literally tens of thousands of Calvinist Protestant civilains in the 1570s, compared to today—when it protests the just execution of the worst murderers imaginable, is unchanged? Silly on its face.
verdadjusticia ANSWERS:
The Catholic Church has never had any defined infallible doctrine on the death penalty. The Calvinist were at war with the Catholic countries, what do you expect Catholics to do, let them burn down their churches and kill their priests?
We Dominicans tend to razz the Franciscans:
Franciscan (to me)(jokingly):But we're so HUMBLE!
Me: Well, you have a lot to be humble about.
But our differences are mostly and most often differences of style and of mission. But I admire the heck out of Bonaventure, and I don't know any Franciscans who don't respect Aquinas. And we all admire Carthusians and Trappists.
Diversity of members, diversity of charisms, one Spirit.
It's as if someone proposed to give a list of quadrupeds and listed, Goats, Sheep, Hair Sheep, Lincolns, Corriedales, Cats, House Cats, Barn Cats, Calico Cats, Alley Cats, Dogs, Wolves, Collies, Border Collies, Aussies, Poodles, Miniature Poodles, Teacup Poodles, Elephants....
The Church is chaotic, who could deny it? But it's not quite THAT chaotic.
You can say the exact same thing about the Presbyterians.
AnalogReigns WROTE:
It is also a fact that all kinds of people—including important theologians—with all kinds of contradictory beliefs call themselves Roman Catholic—and have not been formally, publicly removed from the Roman Church .
It is the exception of our times. They are not the rule of all times. A blip in time. Those dissenting theologinas have no authority. The popes have not declared any new doctrines from those theologinas. During the Arian heresy it is said that there were practically no Catholic bishops that had not gone Arian, it last a few decades and the Church cam out clensed of the heresy.
AnalogReigns WROTE;
If you take officially stated doctrines,
Doctrines must be adhered to under under penalty of excommunication. there are no new doctrines. You don’t know what doctrines are.
AnalogReigns WRTE:
plus all the varied opinions of baptized Roman Catholics (Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy come to mind....)(not to mention, variations in Tradition), you have as many or more variations of belief and practice as you find amidst Protestants.
verdadjusticia ANSWERS:
those individuals have no authority, they are not authorities. They are nobodies. The Protestant church authorities have changed all their doctrines over time. The pope has not changed any dogmas (defined infallible doctrines)
AnalogReigns WROTE:
The Roman Church itself—since it originally consisted of only one of the 5 original principalities of the Church—broke away from the Eastern Church in AD 1054.
verdadjusticia ANSWERS:
No credible historian aggrees with your outlandish memory of history. Read your Brittania Encyclopedia and see for yourself who broke away from who. Your comment is not even worthy of a response.
AnalogReigns WROTE: From the Eastern point of view it is the Latin church which was schismatic...
verdadjusticia ANSWERED:
If you really believe that, then you should become an Eastern Orthodox, for it is the true Church.
I got this list from wikipedia. I did inadvertantly left off the following caviot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_religious_order
I'm not exactly sure what a decree of erection is and was afraid to google it.
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