Posted on 12/28/2009 11:26:45 AM PST by urroner
For the sake of a discussion, let's assume that I am a brand new neighbor of yours. We have only met each other in passing. You play the part of the Christian and I will play the part of the agnostic. (BTW, none of the below is true about me. Upfront, I am Mormon, but I have tried to get into this discussion on this forum for some time, but haven't been able to do so.)
(I also realize that there are some of you who are more than eager to post anti-Mormon material on this thread and I request that you don't do so. I don't even want Mormonism mentioned in this thread beyond this point.)
Let's assume that I'm out trimming the hedges between your house and mine and that you are working in a garden close to the hedges.
My wife and three kids, ages 3, 8, and 13, are all out with me. My wife keeps telling me I need to paint the house before it gets colder, my younger children are throwing little rocks at me to get my attention and laughing and giggling, and the oldest is pestering me about buying her a cellphone and about the promise I made a year ago about letting her pierce her ears for earrings.
In a calm moment, my wife and I get into a neighborly chat, well would be my wife, I'm a science/math teacher at the local community college and it's very hard for me to just sit down and chitchat and you tell us you are Christian.
My wife tells you she is a Christian also, but doesn't go to any denomination and hasn't been to church in several years, since marrying me, but that I am always peppering her with questions that she doesn't know the answers to. She says that one of the reasons she has stopped going to church is because she likes to spend Sundays with me since we don't get a lot of lone time together. I spend a lot of time helping students at the college and when I'm home, I have to spend a lot of time with the kids. We do have a date night every week, but that's just not enough.
She also says that she is also tired of seeing so much hypocrisy among the church members and the preacher is always asking for money, that she had decided to stop going. She says that her preacher, when she was little, told her she was saved as did her parents, so her salvation was guaranteed.
You see me roll my eyes when my wife says that.
I tell you that I really don't go to any denomination, but I have read the Bible, the Koran, the Tao Te Ching, the Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, some of the writings of Marx, and some New Age books. I tell you that I don't know what the right way is or even if there is a right way?
I tell you that I tend toward Uniterianism, but Buddhism has some attraction to me also, but it's a little too esoteric for me. I tell you that I also have some problems with life after death, reincarnation, or any supernatural miracles.
I tell you my parents were Catholics before they died, but they died when I was very young and I have been to church only a couple of times since their funeral, but the people who adopted me were strong agnostics and never directed me to follow any particular path. I'm thinking about going back to the RCC, but haven't made any decision yet.
You realize that I am fairly knowledgeable of the Bible when it comes to knowing where what is, but you realize that I don't interpret them at all as you do. In fact, I have a very shallow understanding of them. I think the Bible is good literature and can help a person do a lot of good in this life, but I don't know anything about being saved and what that means.
I ask you what you believe and how I can find the happiness and joy you have in your life.
What are you going to say or do?
Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.
I’m not trying to convert my neighbor. In this storyline, I found out my neighbor is a Christian, doesn’t matter which denomination, and I asked my neighbor for advice. I am not very happy with life right now and I am hoping that find the best philosophy/religion possible would help.
My neighbor will probably make some sincere suggestions and then, being the logical type, I would ask some very sincere questions.
Once again, I’m not trying to convert my neighbor, and if my neighbor asked me to church on Sunday or whenever, I would probably even go a couple of times.
The irony of a Mormon demanding truth, or even feigning the search for it, especially to the point you have on this thread amuses me...
I would do that.
I would be more than willing to listen to you and even pray with you. Being agnostic, I wouldn’t expect an answer, but I would do it.
Let’s see, first I would say “What?”
Next I would direct you the Romans Road and the Apostles creed.
What is your question anyway? If I am getting ready to leave for some engagement I might just say “See you later”.
God created man in his own image. Man (Adam) had the right to choose and for a while, walked daily with God in the garden. Perhaps those are metaphors, perhaps a hint of truth but the moral lesson is that Adam had fellow ship with God. But Man chose poorly and entered into sin.
Your starting assumption that God chooses who goes to Heaven or Hell is incorrect. Man chooses his own path out of his own free will. Man chooses to sin and the result of that choice is the separation from God.... separation from all that is good (joy, love, hope, peace, etc). And once you are separated from that, all you are left with is bad (hate, pain, strife, suffering, etc). So bad is that separation that the scriptures can only describe the emotional pain in terms of the most extreme physical pain - burning.
God’s purpose is wisdom so far above our own understanding that we can only guess and most likely, that guess would only be foolishness.
God desires fellowship with Man. Love grows only when it is shared.
Not following your comment “What is the purpose of life if it’s not necessary for it for God to decide whether we go to Heaven or to Hell?”
Why do we love an marry someone when we know that person will disappoint us at some time? When we know that person will eventually die, perhaps before us? We desire love and to share love.
Again, God does not punish us. Man chooses to separate himself from God. Man is given a span of time to make that choice. When man exhausts that time and has not chosen God, he is separated from God because God is perfection, has made provision for man to choose God and take advantage of the atonement that God has made to make atonement for man’s sin. If you do not accept what is offered, is it right to blame the person who offered it for your failure to accept the gift?
If God is good and perfection AND IS THE ONLY THING AROUND, then there is no CHOICE. Man is not free to choose God because he has no other choice. That is not free will. Man kind tends to think of sin/evil as being specific acts. But the truth is that sin/evil is choosing not to follow God’s will .... to choose imperfection rather than perfection.
“Paint the house” LOL
Mormon one minute, agnostic the next. Is that an improvement or a side ways move?
Just because I can’t see my brain is proof enough of God’s existence. That could be evidence, but couldn’t a Muslim, a Hindu, or even a Taoist use that same type of logic for their beliefs?
BTW, I did have brain surgery years ago and I was conscious during part of it. The doctors told me why I had never had a head cold before nor will ever in the future, diseases can’t exist in vacuums.
why did you anwser Eternal life? It isn’t the subject of the quote.
The one true God, Jesus Christ is.
He wants you to ask him because he is your FATHER. But sometimes a FATHER tells his child "no" for many, many reasons that aren't apparent at the time. We still love our earthly father's even when we don't get what we ask for, don't we?
Think of a relationship between you and your OWN father. Your Father most likely knew what you wanted, but waited for you ask. Same thing.
BTW, faith is believing in something even if you can't see it. It's not complicated.
The most compelling evidence for a deity is man’s eternal search for Him. You were apparently raised by agnostics - who could not give you answers. You were confused by Christians whose answers you could not accept. Your confusion is evidenced by your convoluted essay.
Rather than ask questions of mere mortal FReepers - ask them of the Creator. You will likely become a Deist. One who accepts the miracle of all creation - and is too humbled to reject Him, but too skeptical to accept Him as God.
Agnostics prayer: We are what we eat.
Are you serious? There are plenty of historical references to Biblical events.
Look up Josephus.
Check it out yourself. If it does not square with scripture, don't believe it. Don't believe me or anyone else just because they say it....check it out yourself. Many freepers will help you, but check it out for yourself.
Texas Songwriter.
I thought it was funny as all get out not to mention true. Didn't even rate a response back degnabbit.
I may be remembering this wrong, but I seem to think you identified yourself as a follower or Joseph Smith at one time? Was that you?
You nailed it.
OK, I see where you do say you are a mormonite.
Why post a thread like this? You have made it clear you don’t want the truth on previous mormonite threads.
BTW, mormonism is clearly both a heresy and a cult -
oh, no wait. Strike that. You said you don’t want to
talk about the truth of mormonism.
Never mind.
You realize that I am fairly knowledgeable of the Bible
___________________________________________________
And yet you’re a mormon ???
How did that happen ???
Ask you as a Morman about “Bleeding the beast”.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.