Posted on 10/01/2009 9:30:54 PM PDT by Tai_Chung
MIAMI – Hundreds of congregants have left a pioneering megachurch in Florida to form their own congregation because they were unhappy with leadership at the church that's seen as a bedrock of the religious right. The action by the unhappy members at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church was the culmination of a feud between loyalists to an evangelical luminary, the Rev. D. James Kennedy, and his replacement as pastor, the Rev. Tullian Tchividjian, a grandson of the Rev. Billy Graham.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
another day, another protestant non-denomination.
You will find the most telling in the last two paragraphs.
church splitting is inter mural sports in evangelical circles
they can’t pronounce his name and, embarrassed, would rather leave than learn?
The Roman Catholic church has has split tons of times. Some of the biggest splits involved Eastern Orthodox, Western Orthodox, and Lutherans.
Just ‘cause you keep the name “Roman Catholic” doesn’t mean you didn’t split! Coral Ridge is keeping the name “Coral Ridge,” too.
According to the article, spiky hair, a tan and sometimes a scruffy beard.
Kennedy was robed, starched and pedantic.
IOW, Tullian is what Billy would have been today, if he were a late 20’s evangelist on the scene, a la 1949.
Well I miss Dr. D. James Kennedy’s messages. He was great at connecting the current issues and problems of modern society to Biblical references and his knowledge of history was excellent too.
The tendency toward schism in the Church goes back to apostolic times. Still we can claims to have a continuous organization link to those times. But the splits in the Protestant churches are continuous.
“The tendency toward schism in the Church goes back to apostolic times. Still we can claims to have a continuous organization link to those times. But the splits in the Protestant churches are continuous.”
I understand that that is your perspective, and I mean no insult. However, be aware that protestants believe that, to one degree or another, the RC church abandoned biblical teachings and so the Protestants are the one continuous church, the remnant, if you will.
I don’t mean to start an argument over this doctrine or that in this thread; merely to point out that there is another perspective on schism.
Certainly schism does go back to apostolic times. The church was already dividing before the epistles were written, what did Paul say, some were saying “I am of Paul” and “I am of Apollos” and “I am of Jesus?” The tone of his letter seems to display some measure of disgust, something like, “I thank God I baptized none of you!”
(goes off to get Concordance and Bible)
Oh well, you inspired me to get out my Bible, always a good thing, so here it is:
“For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius. . .”
1 Co 1:11-14
I am simply pointing out that the Catholic church has maintained organizational integrity well enough to claim, for instance, allegiance to a line of popes extending to the First Century. The Reformers never agreed exactly what the true alternative to Catholicism, except that there ought to be one. The result has been an endemic sectarianism. Roman Catholicism has never been as unified as it sometimes pretended, but the organization integrity has been preserved.
“the Catholic church has maintained organizational integrity well enough to claim, for instance, allegiance to a line of popes extending to the First Century.”
True, agreed.
“The Reformers never agreed exactly what the true alternative to Catholicism (should be), except that there ought to be one.”
I think that would depend on who you consider to be “The Reformers.”
I believe that the one true church consists of every true believer in Jesus. Ultimately of course only God knows who we are. He warns us that there are wolves in sheep’s clothing out there. So, we are supposed to listen to His voice (My sheep know my voice, etc.)
The Protestants would largely argue that His voice is being or has been ignored in certain areas within the RC church. The RCs of course point out their continuity.
I don’t think a division at Coral Ridge should be rejoiced over. I could sort of understand if several hundred left to join the RC church, because you view yourselves as the one true church. But Coral Ridge and the RC church have very similar values, particularly on issues of the day, despite some essential doctrinal differences.
I should stop myself, though, we probably all know the doctrinal differences between RCs and Protestants, and I didn’t mean to hijack the thread in order to debate them.
The chief breach of the reformation came with the abandonment of the mass, or the Eucharist, and the denial of the authority of the priesthood to teach true doctrine. The Orthodox churches haven’t done this. only have broken with Rome on jurisdiction. Few Catholics doubt that many in the evangelical churches are true Christians. In deed, Catholics have left the Church because they feel that many priests, inspired by false notions of the “Spirit of Vatican II, have begun teaching a false version of the faith. But the doctrinal fluidity of the megachurches and their dependence on charismatic personalities, seems to me a grave weakness. Look what happened after Luther’s death. Look at what happens after Dr. Kennedy’s death. A very great preacher, BTW.
I’d bet it’s the music. DJK maintained strong adherence to the old hymns that Proestants have sung for centuries, mixing in a few new hymns every decade. Rick Warren et al have thrown out everything not deriving from the entertainment industry. It has de-democratized the performance of music in church from “please everyone, come out and join the choir, there’s a place for you,” to a select few with rock background, while everyone else stand at their seats until the old folks’ backs hurt.
It is always VERY difficult to come in and replace a pastor/teacher (successful or not) who has been at the same church for a very long time where the position has become open because they finally died or because they retired from old age. The problem is often this: congregants either turn on the new replacement pastor:
1) Because they expect him to BE the former pastor! When he fails to live up to their expectations to BE the former pastor they either rebel and split the church or they find an excuse to kick him out the door: "We weren't being fed", "he was not as good a preacher as our beloved former pastor", etc...
2) Another reason this happens is this: by the time the old pastor retired after "hanging on" to his position for years and years (for any number of reasons) his ministry had become stale and unchallenging. The congregation is used to sitting back, putting their feet up on the pew in front of them and not being convicted or challenged to faithfully undertake the ministries God has for them. This has gone on for Y E A R S. Then the new, young, enthusiastic, gung-ho, "Let's ALL get involved and get things done for Jesus" replacement pastor comes in and the congregation is challenged and faithfully preached to on a weekly basis. As a result, many of these "comfortable, complacent 'Christians;" are convicted and challenged to repent, arise from their sleep and to move forward in their faith. Instead of responding to the tug of God's Holy Spirit working through their new minister, they FIRE HIM so that they can pull up the covers, roll over and go back to sleep.
I always advise my seminary and undergraduate students to beware of taking a position where they are replacing a minister who has been at the same church for a very long time and who has finally retired or stayed at the same location until he died. While not impossible to successfully follow and take up the mantle in such a situation (with God all things are possible), the odds are often against the replacement pastor having a successful ministry there and it usually ends badly. Sadly these churches often go through/chew up two or three fine, dedicated evangelical pastors before they finally get to the place where enough time has lapsed between the departure of their former beloved pastor and the "new guy" where they will finally accept the pastor who fills the position.
I hope the above helps to put things into perspective
By me (as one who holds to a somewhat nonstandard politics ("pessimist with libertarian sympathies") who grits his teeth and shuts up when it comes up at church) that's a good thing.
You wrote:
“The Roman Catholic church has has split tons of times.”
The Catholic Church has never once split nor is such a thing possible. People have left the Catholci Church and formed their own churches or bishops have left the obedience of the Catholic Church, but the Catholic Church has never once split.
“Some of the biggest splits involved Eastern Orthodox, Western Orthodox, and Lutherans.”
The Eastern Orthodox LEFT the Catholic Church. The Catholic Chruch did not split. The Western Orthodox - so-called - never existed until the 19th or 20th century and are former Protestants by and large who became Eatern Orthodox buy use Western liturgies. Lutherans left the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church did not split.
“Just ‘cause you keep the name “Roman Catholic” doesn’t mean you didn’t split!”
We don’t even have the name “Roman Catholic”. That was a term invented by Protestants in the 16th century to rationalize their leaving the Catholic Church. If you don’t believe me, look it up in the full edition of the Oxford English Dictionary.
“Coral Ridge is keeping the name “Coral Ridge,” too.”
Yep, and which denomination now will be the real Coral Ridge sect? After all, the one keeping the name, will not be the one teaching like the Coral Ridge of just a few years ago!!!
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