Posted on 09/12/2009 11:20:17 PM PDT by Pontiac
Dawkins
Now, there is a certain class of sophisticated modern theologian who will say something like this: "Good heavens, of course we are not so naive or simplistic as to care whether God exists.
Existence is such a 19th-century preoccupation! It doesn't matter whether God exists in a scientific sense. What matters is whether he exists for you or for me. If God is real for you, who cares whether science has made him redundant? Such arrogance! Such elitism."
Well, if that's what floats your canoe, you'll be paddling it up a very lonely creek.
The mainstream belief of the world's peoples is very clear. They believe in God, and that means they believe he exists in objective reality, just as surely as the Rock of Gibraltar exists.
If sophisticated theologians or postmodern relativists think they are rescuing God from the redundancy scrap-heap by downplaying the importance of existence, they should think again.
Tell the congregation of a church or mosque that existence is too vulgar an attribute to fasten onto their God, and they will brand you an atheist. They'll be right.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
In the ancient world, a cosmology was not regarded as factual but was primarily therapeutic; it was recited when people needed an infusion of that mysterious power that hadsomehowbrought something out of primal nothingness: at a sickbed, a coronation or during a political crisis.
Some cosmologies taught people how to unlock their own creativity, others made them aware of the struggle required to maintain social and political order. The Genesis creation hymn, written during the Israelites' exile in Babylonia in the 6th century BC, was a gentle polemic against Babylonian religion.
Its vision of an ordered universe where everything had its place was probably consoling to a displaced people, thoughas we can see in the Biblesome of the exiles preferred a more aggressive cosmology. Most cultures believed that there were two recognized ways of arriving at truth. The Greeks called them mythos and logos. Both were essential and neither was superior to the other; they were not in conflict but complementary, each with its own sphere of competence.
Logos ("reason") was the pragmatic mode of thought that enabled us to function effectively in the world and had, therefore, to correspond accurately to external reality. But it could not assuage human grief or find ultimate meaning in life's struggle.
For that people turned to mythos, stories that made no pretensions to historical accuracy but should rather be seen as an early form of psychology; if translated into ritual or ethical action, a good myth showed you how to cope with mortality, discover an inner source of strength, and endure pain and sorrow with serenity.
Pontiac
Dawkins has made a career out of writing about something he does not believe in. He has made a religion out of anti-religion.
Armstrong is writing in defense of God here is not the strongest champion I could have hoped for. She seems to me to view God and religion in the same fashion as Lenin did; an opiate of the people, helping them deal with their pain.
Benjamin Franklin was frequently consulted by Thomas Paine for advice and suggestions regarding his political writings, and Franklin assisted Paine with some of his famous essays. This letter 1 is Franklin’s response to a manuscript Paine sent him(Age of Reason)that advocated against the concept of a providential God.
TO THOMAS PAINE.
[Date uncertain.]
DEAR SIR,
I have read your manuscript with some attention. By the argument it contains against a particular Providence, though you allow a general Providence, you strike at the foundations of all religion. For without the belief of a Providence, that takes cognizance of, guards, and guides, and may favor particular persons, there is no motive to worship a Deity, to fear his displeasure, or to pray for his protection. I will not enter into any discussion of your principles, though you seem to desire it. At present I shall only give you my opinion, that, though your reasonings are subtile and may prevail with some readers, you will not succeed so as to change the general sentiments of mankind on that subject, and the consequence of printing this piece will be, a great deal of odium drawn upon yourself, mischief to you, and no benefit to others. He that spits against the wind, spits in his own face.
But, were you to succeed, do you imagine any good would be done by it? You yourself may find it easy to live a virtuous life, without the assistance afforded by religion; you having a clear perception of the advantages of virtue, and the disadvantages of vice, and possessing a strength of resolution sufficient to enable you to resist common temptations. But think how great a portion of mankind consists of weak and ignorant men and women, and of inexperienced, inconsiderate youth of both sexes, who have need of the motives of religion to restrain them from vice, to support their virtue, and retain them in the practice of it till it becomes habitual, which is the great point for its security. And perhaps you are indebted to her originally, that is, to your religious education, for the habits of virtue upon which you now justly value yourself. You might easily display your excellent talents of reasoning upon a less hazardous subject, and thereby obtain a rank with our most distinguished authors. For among us it is not necessary, as among the Hottentots, that a youth, to be raised into the company of men, should prove his manhood by beating his mother.
I would advise you, therefore, not to attempt unchaining the tiger, but to burn this piece before it is seen by any other person; whereby you will save yourself a great deal of mortification by the enemies it may raise against you, and perhaps a good deal of regret and repentance. If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it. I intend this letter itself as a proof of my friendship, and therefore add no professions to it; but subscribe simply yours,
B. Franklin
This bit really shows Franklin's true insight in to the soul of men
If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it.
It has been said that even if God did not exist man would have to invent him anyway.
Karen Armstrong believes man invented God, not the other way around. She may not admit to being an atheist, but she is one.
I have no problem with atheist. I just dont understand their aggressive proselytizing.
Who are they saving and from what?
If I were an atheist I would see religion as a persons choice of entertainment. If a believer should ask me to a church service it would be the same as asking me to join him in going to a boxing match. A simple no thank you should suffice.
If you read the entire essay she does make good points in favor of religion from a non-believer point of view.
She points out the religion does provide comfort to those in emotional pain and calms the mind of those troubled.
But as you say she does not come off as a true believer but more as some kind of philosopher or a psychologist explaining the psychological need for a god.
That's the cutting edge of the New Age approach to spirituality, which reduces all belief to pure affect. It was developed in the SF Bay Area through the exploration of applying neurolinguistic programming techniques to moral cowards on antidepressants. It consists of holding two or more contradictory ideas in mind while simultaniously expressing a fusion of nonchalance, fervered belief, anger, and complete denial.
The particular form of malleable schizophrenia which results is not only enormously useful for Leftist "life coaching," but also quite fashionable.
The “God beyond God” is in reality man writ on a large screen.
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