Posted on 09/08/2009 1:04:14 PM PDT by Colofornian
In his commencement speech at Brigham Young University Thursday, Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints urged Latter-day Saints to...avoid being defensive.
“In our interactions with others are we expecting always to have to defend ourselves? If so, I think we need to make a course correction.” Elder Ballard said. “It is inconsistent with where we are today..."
Elder Ballard referred to recent research that suggested Mormons can sometimes appear defensive to those who are not members of the Church. The study said that when Mormons are explaining their beliefs, they couch their language in terms that suggest they are expecting criticism.
Among the reasons for this type of reaction is the long history of persecution that Mormons faced during the early days of the Church, which included an extermination order from the governor of Missouri in the 19th century.
“...it's not 1830...there aren’t just six of us anymore. Could part of the defensiveness that others sometimes see in us suggest that we still expect to be treated as a disliked minority, forced to flee to the West?”
SNIP
He also explained that too often Mormons allow others to set the conversational agenda, and subjects such as the long-discontinued practice of polygamy become the focus.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsroom.lds.org ...
Well, some beliefs, like "I'm on my way to godhood," naturally trigger a response of ducking.
From the press release: "Could part of the defensiveness that others sometimes see in us suggest that we still expect to be treated as a disliked minority, forced to flee to the West?”
Translation: "We have a persecution complex. Get over it. And get over your thin skin."
From the press release: He also explained that too often Mormons allow others to set the conversational agenda, and subjects such as the long-discontinued practice of polygamy become the focus.
You know, Mormons could sure help "clarify" plenty for us if they would just call a playing card spade a spade and actually dismantle supposed false prophecies made by their leaders.
Example:
Lds apostle Bruce R. McConkie
--in a "Mormon Doctrine" book approved by their First Presidency
--(which includes their "prophet" -- in fact, a then "soon-to-be" "prophet" was McConkie's "mentor" for the revision of that book)
--told us that the Mormon jesus would re-start up earthly polygamy when he returned.
Now, if polygamy was only a yesteryear concept dead & buried & gone forever, these Mormon leaders sure know how to confuse us mere "gentiles." Why, if they'd just speak with one consistent voice -- and label Lds apostles like McConkie as a false prophet on this matter -- we'd be less confused.
Of course they don't have much to work with in that regard.
Some cards really don't help when laid out on the table..
I wonder why Elder Ballard doesn’t tell his followers to just tell the truth.
Why worry about defensiveness - just tell the truth. Quit trying to couch anything. That would be a start in the right direction.
Instead of constantly rising to the defense of the LDS doctrine, I would much rather see my Church practice what they preach by becoming more proactive politically. I truly feel that it is not possible to be a Christian and support the Democrat agenda but sadly there are LDS that do, and Church leaders too timid or unwilling to become involved in calling a spade a spade (no pun intended).
Translation: "We have a persecution complex. Get over it. And get over your thin skin."
I dunno, the revocation of the Edict of Nantes got my ancestor booted from France....... Wait a minute, that's something I can be thankful for!
Apostle Urges Mormons to Speak Up, Avoid Defensiveness
__________________________________________________
Oh, yeah, those shy little mormons...
They need to speak up...
the revocation of the Edict of Nantes got my ancestor booted from France.......
____________________________________________
My French Huguenot ancestors didnt wait to be booted...
They fled for their lives...
To England and then to here...
And I too am thankful they did
:)
Well, so much for that ‘spirit of contention’ thing.
Well, I'm thankful to hear a voice from inside the Lds church who is actually willing to be a little bit of a catalyst for reformation. I think that's what I often find missing among Lds FR voices. We hear it occasionally from Logophile...but not too many others.
Church leaders too timid or unwilling to become involved in calling a spade a spade (no pun intended)
I think a key reason that this is the case is that Lds leaders -- both at the local bishop level & then @ the general authority level -- are for the most part, pure & simple businessmen. And businessmen tend to think in terms of "Public Relations." They don't want to stir the controversial pot -- especially when they know that the founding vision of their church & its for-the-most part 19th century practicies already handed them plenty of controversial ingredients.
Now mind you, Christian church leaders often have the same problems -- not wanting to become more proactive socially & politically -- but it's usually for different reasons...such as not wanting to become a lightning rod...or, not wanting to offend a certain portion of their church membership, etc.
There are two reasons why Mormons appear defensive: (1) most of them don’t know that much about Mormonism. (2) those that do know what Mormons believe also know how wacky their beliefs sound to Christians.
Well, did you notice the timing of this message? Elder Ballard gave this message just 5-7 days immediately following FAIR's event held Aug 6-8 (Elder Ballard spoke Aug. 13). And FAIR is all about "trying to couch" answers to truth queries that are currently eroding away the faith of many Mormons.
The problem from the Mormon hierarchy, is that this always leads into playing defense about Mormon 19th century problems...like...
...polygamy (which FAIR had a speaker on)...
...the Book of Abraham, started in 1835 (which FAIR had a speaker on -- see TheLargerIssue )...
...Brigham Young's 25+-year teaching that Adam was god...
...(which FAIR had a speaker on -- and then FAIR apparently may have become so nervous about what this speaker commented on -- it has yet to produce a transcript)
And, if you look at some of the questions posted by some of the attendees @ the FAIR conference (three FAIR partial transcripts were posted here on FR on Labor Day see: TheReliabilityofMormonHistoryProducedbytheLdsChurch and 'UhOh!to'AhHah!'inApologetics ), many were critical of the church's less-than-forthcoming manner of the way it addresses these controversial topics in its manuals & church curricula.
I mean -- look at even the title Ron Barney gave his FAIR presentation: "The Reliability of Mormon History Produced by the Lds Church" -- since when is history primarily about "producing" for packaging? (I thought history was more for "unpackaging" and "reviewing" from a past tense perspective -- vs. "producing" as if it was primarily a present tense construction).
Elder Ballard represents the Lds general authority view -- which would rather put to bed much of what went on in 19th-century Mormonism. Especially in an internet era.
And so, that's the current tug-of-war: Embarrassing quotes & practices from 19th century leaders are posted & re-posted on the Internet. One of the FAIR conference speakers said, then, that even mainstream Mormons were surprised to discover...
...that Joseph Smith had so many wives...
...that Smith married a 14 yo...
...that Smith did most of his Book of Mormon "translation" using a rock in a hat -- NOT pouring over gold-plated language -- as many Lds publication paintings erroneously continue to show.
So this in turn creates additional doubts among the Lds faithful. They turn to the Lds leadership for answers. But they won't even intentionally deal with these problems. So they turn to FAIR, which does. But then FAIR, as it deals with these embarrassing controversial issues, just raises what Lds leadership prefers would remain in the closet.
And so, the catch-22 cycle, never allows for escape.
INDEED!
We nevefr USED to defend ANYTHING!!
We left that up to our victims.GThey were the ones who wasted their time on defense while we aggressivly went on our way.
Whyu should WE defend all the stupid things our past Leaders and teachers have done and said?
--MormonDupe(I believe what our Living Prophet® says - even when it contradicts what a PAST LP has said.)
Good point!
'cause the doctrine is, basically, indefensible.
To England and then to here...
It was the same with mine, England and then to Virginia with a land grant from the king.
So we are both a couple of Huguenuts Huguenots.
That's because MORMONism is NOT Christianity. [elsie]
Certainly, ifearforthechildren, perhaps you can understand we Christians who want to delineate between the historic Christian faith and Mormonism -- for even Mormons don't consider themselves the same Christianity that was alive 2-3 centuries post-Christ's obvious Presence. This is the same kind of distinction Lds want to make when they are compared to the flds.
I think ex-Lds Reaganaut said it best Sunday in her brief FR testimony to a Mormon: I do put my conservatism in second place to helping lead the lost to Jesus. The Jesus of the Bible, not the “elder brother, good example, loan shark” Jesus of Mormonism. Saving souls is WAY more important than politics.
And so while I applaud your political acumen in wishing for political proactivism in Lds circles, I have to agree with Reaganaut -- and by extension, Elsie's raising of this point: It is, as always, Christ first.
The jesus christ of Mormonism is NOT the same as the historic Jesus Christ. If somebody twisted & distorted your identity & mission in life, I don't think, 2,000 years later were you able to comment, that you would say anything other than: "No, that's not me. It's only a caricature of me."
It is on this basis -- the same one that the apostle Paul operated under when he thought about religious Jews (Romans 9:1-3) -- that: ifearforthemormon
Alas, pray directly to the true Jesus that we Christians become more like Paul. Pray that we would say & really mean: "If only we could go to outer darkness & be condemned there in order that Mormons would have 100% assurance of eternal life now & forever -- minus their false hope of godhood."
"sadly", so do many Catholics and Protestants (support Obama), and even more sadly many of them are out-rightly his promoters.
Is that supposed to tell us something about Catholics and Protestants???
(Yes, it is...but not anything different than knowing, say, there's many "Catholics" and some Protestants in the Caribbean which mix Voodoo practitioning w/embracing -- to some degree -- a Jesus on the cross...many religionists seemingly want both an earthly "savior" -- be it an occultic one like voodoo or a political one like Obama + have their mainstream religious practice on the side).
So does that tell us anything about “Catholics” in the Caribbean, or “Protestants” in the Caribbean, in ANY general sense?
NO, it does not, any more than it tells us anything, in a general sense about “Catholics” or “Protestants” anywhere;
except that no matter what religious faith we are talking about, some people practice the social and obligatory acts of a religious faith but do not in fact live-out the religious tenants of that faith.
How does that place the LDS members differently, in that regard?
It doesn’t. Therefore what was the meaning of your original point? Nothing, it was pointless.
Apostle Urges Mormons to Speak Up, Avoid Defensiveness
Then your complaint needs to go to the AUTHOR; that his ARTICLE was pointless. HE is the one making the generalized statements.
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