Mark Shea: Mariology From A-Z

Zenit ^ | 7/17/09 | Annamarie Adkins

[bdeaner]

One would think it impossible to spill any more ink about the Blessed Virgin Mary, judging from the number of Marian titles on the shelf at a local Catholic bookstore.

But when popular Catholic author Mark Shea was considering entering the Church, there were no comprehensive titles where he could address his concerns as an evangelical Protestant about Catholic Marian doctrine and devotion.

Twenty years later, that book was still missing from the shelves, so Shea set out to write it.

The result is Mary, Mother of the Son, a three-volume apologetics tool published by Catholic Answers.

Shea is senior content editor at Catholic Exchange and a regular columnist for both Inside Catholic and the National Catholic Register.

In Part 1 of this interview, he shares with ZENIT why almost everything non-Catholics think they "know" about Mary is wrong.

ZENIT: Why did you write a book about the Mother of God? Where does your trilogy fit on the already crowded shelf of books and treatises about Mary?

Shea: I wrote this book because it's the book I wish somebody had written when I was coming into the Church.

I waited around for 20 years, hoping somebody else would do it, but when nobody did, I decided I'd take on the project (which is only fair since I'm the only one who really knows what questions and doubts I had and what would constitute a satisfactory reply to them).

As to where the trilogy fits on the bookshelf, I suppose I'd say "Anywhere."

That is to say, part of the reason I wrote it is because there simply wasn't any book I could find that did what this book does. For instance, the books on Marian dogma didn't deal with questions about apparitions. Devotional literature didn’t answer questions about where the Church was getting all this stuff about Mary. Books tracing the development of doctrine didn't talk about the rosary. In short, the literature was out there, but most people don't have time to locate all the resources for the host of questions they have about Mary. So I created Mary, Mother of the Son to be a sort of "one-stop shopping" resource for virtually every issue a non-Catholic (or uncatechized Catholic) might have concerning Marian doctrine and devotion.

It tackles everything from the sources of Marian belief and practice (a huge issue since oodles of non-Catholics simply assume the whole thing is a data dump from paganism) to the Catholic approach to Scripture to the four Marian dogmas to the broad spectrum of Marian devotion to private revelations and apparitions to possible ways forward in Catholic/Evangelical conversations about the Blessed Virgin.

When it comes to Marian Willies, I've run the gamut in my own life and had to deal with pretty much every difficulty and problem with Mary to which non-Catholic flesh is heir, so it's a book that comes from my heart (and gut) as well as my head.

Nothing in it is new (God willing) and the whole thing is ultimately a restatement of the Tradition. But it's a restatement that tries to run the gamut of Catholic teaching on Mary, not simply focus in on one specialized area. And it's written in order to be intelligible to the non-specialist.

ZENIT: You discuss in your books why most of what people think they know about both Mary and the Catholic Church is really pseudo-knowledge. Can you describe this phenomenon and why there is so much pseudo-knowledge lurking in the culture about the Church?

Shea: Pseudo-knowledge is the stuff that "everybody knows," not because it's true, but because somebody with "important hair" said it on TV, or because your favorite magazine said so, or because a beloved character in a movie stated it as fact and lots of other people repeated it around millions of water coolers.

Pseudo-knowledge is why "everybody knows" Humphrey Bogart said, "Play it again, Sam" (except he didn't). It's why "everybody knows" the US Constitution speaks of a "wall of separation" between Church and State (except it doesn't). And it's why "everybody knows" medieval Europeans all believed the world was flat (except they didn't).

Pseudo-knowledge causes people to go around talking as though they're certain that at one time or other they must have read the Federalist Papers, or boned up on the meteorological data for global warming from the latest scientific studies, or committed to memory the documents of the Council of Trent, when they cannot, in fact, quote five words from any of these things.

What they really know is what that resonant, well-modulated voice on TV or their own circle of friends (or both) told them was "common knowledge" concerning government or science or the Catholic Church.

And, of course, it's why "everybody knows" that "the Catholic Mary" is really just a warmed-over pagan goddess. It's a modern myth that has circulated around for so long that nobody even thinks to question it. And when you do, you discover there's no there there. Nothing. Not a scrap of actual historical support for the claim.

Like many of the myths about the Catholic Church, it arises from a superficial acquaintance with the Church (she's hard to avoid completely and people often judge by fragmentary impressions) and from the fact that many non-Catholics listen only to other non-Catholics circulating baseless junk as "fact".

ZENIT: What is the most important role Mary has played in the history of the Church and its mission of evangelizing the nations?

Shea: Being who she is. Mary is the "type of the Church" in the words of St. Ambrose. Her mission has been the same ever since Jesus gave her to us with the words "Behold your mother." As the model disciple, the Mother of God, the Ever-Virgin, Immaculate and Assumed into Heaven, she has constantly been interceding for us and has, on occasion, even been entrusted with critically needed calls to repentance and grace (as at Fatima and other places).

ZENIT: Why, in your opinion, does Mary keep appearing to people all over the globe? Is there a common theme in the various apparitions of the Virgin?

Shea: Essentially her mission has always been the same: to say to the world "Do whatever Jesus tells you."

As I point out in Mary, Mother of the Son, Mary's life is the most profoundly referred life any mortal has ever lived. All true private revelations have one thing in common: they point us right back to the public revelation of Jesus Christ and to the apostolic tradition of the Church. Mary's message is radically not new: Be good. Go to Mass. Trust Jesus. Little boys should tell the truth. That sort of thing.

If you are living a serious Catholic life of trust in Jesus, obedience to Holy Church, the practice of virtue, and frequent reception of the sacraments, you are doing everything that all those visions, miraculous healings, and dancing suns were wrought by God to say to the human race.

ZENIT: Why do so many important Church documents -- from conciliar statements (Lumen Gentium) to papal encyclicals (Caritas in Veritate) -- seem to always conclude with a paean and exhortation to seek the intercession of the Blessed Mother?

Shea: Because it is good and fitting (and smart) to do so.

God has given her primacy among all creatures and we are to accord her hyperdulia: the highest honor due a mere creature. But "creature" is such a cold word, isn't it? Like something out of a science fiction movie. You wouldn't give your Mom a Mother's Day card and address it "Dear Exalted Creature". You would give her a card that says, "Dear Mom: I love you and I appreciate all you've done and sacrificed for me." The Church says the same to our Mother.

Some will complain that speaking of Mary's "sacrifices" is taking away honor due to Jesus alone. I reply: Imagine a church service for the parents of a son killed in Iraq in which the pastor points to the grieving parents and says, "God was the one Who gave these parents their child and it was He Who sent their son to die for the freedom of the Iraqi people. They didn't sacrifice anything. They merely assented to be a part in God's plan."

Nobody talks that way at any time about any sacrifice that any ordinary person ever makes. All the rest of the time, we can grasp the fact that, while God is the Author of all things, our sacrifices and choices really matter too -- by the grace of God.

The only time people talk this way is when Evangelicals who are weirded out by Mary dehumanize her and dismiss the sword that pierced her heart so they can talk as though she was utterly irrelevant to the Incarnation and Passion of Christ, instead of the one who was, in fact, more intimately bound up with Him than any person who ever lived. No mortal suffered and lost more in the Passion than Our Lady did. If we can spare words of thanks to the parents of a fallen soldier, how much more gratitude should we have for her who gave, just as God did, her only Son.

So it's only fitting that the Church honor (and ask the intercession of) the Blessed Virgin. God didn't go to all the trouble of perfecting her in his holiness, love and power just to throw all that away. For 2000 years, it has been her joy to intercede for her children -- because she is more like Christ than anyone who ever lived and it his joy to do exactly the same thing.

Even though the early Protestant Reformers praised the Virgin Mary -- some even had a great devotion to her -- Catholic Marian doctrine has become a stumbling block for many Protestants and divided Christians for over four centuries.

Now, however, some Protestants are rediscovering the Blessed Mother, reinvigorating conversations between Catholics and Protestants about her role in the life and faith of the Church.

ZENIT: Why is Mary such a stumbling block to Christian unity? Shouldn't all Christians at least be able to unite around their Mother?

Shea: They should, but they haven't for roughly four centuries. There's hope in that number however, because it means that hostility to and fear of Mary is, historically speaking, a very recent phenomenon and one that really only took off well after the Reformation began.

Many of the Reformers had a profound devotion to Mary and, in fact, accepted much of Catholic teaching about her. However, as Protestantism became more remote from Catholic teaching (and as, in English-speaking countries, Elizabeth I found it very convenient to supplant the cult of the Virgin with a political cult of the Virgin Queen), that connection failed and was eventually broken.

Along with that went the loss of a sense of the sacramental, of the senses of Scripture, and of an appreciation for the feminine in the life of the Church. Mary came to be seen almost exclusively as a sort of pagan goddess and an actual threat to genuine Christian devotion: a perception that would have been absolutely foreign to the mind of any Christian in the first 16 centuries of the Church.

ZENIT: You note that attacks on the Church's Mariology are really attacks on its Christology. How and why is this the case?

Shea: The thing about Mary is that the thing is never about Mary.

Take the Virgin Birth. One of the earliest slurs uttered against Jesus was that he was a bastard, the product of a liaison between Mary and a Roman soldier named Pantera (probably a corruption of "parthenos" which is Greek for "virgin").

Is the point of the slur to attack Mary? Of course not! The point is to attack Jesus as a mere common bastard and to deny that he is the Son of God or of any divine origin.

Likewise, when the heretic Nestorius demanded that Christians no longer hail Mary as "Theotokos" or "God bearer", his attack was directed not at Mary, but at the notion that the Man Jesus and the Second Person of the Trinity were a unity.

Similarly, the question, "Where is the Assumption of Mary in the Bible?" is not really about Mary. It's a question about the validity of Christ's sacred Tradition and the authority of Christ's Church.

"Why should I pray to Mary?" is not a question about Mary. It's a question about the relationship of the living and the dead in Christ.

"Do Catholics worship Mary?" is not a question about Mary. It's a question about whether Catholics really worship Christ.

In short, Evangelical jitters about Mary both pay homage to and yet overlook the central truth about Mary that the Catholic Church wants us to see: that Mary's life, in its entirety, is a referred life.

Attacks on Christ and his gospel virtually always are made via his Body, the Church. We saw this, for instance, with The Da Vinci Code. The message, as usual, was “I have the highest respect for Jesus, it’s just that the Church has totally perverted what he really came to say (which was, by a strange coincidence, what I am saying).” And since Mary is the type of the Church, it is fitting that she stands as a sort of hedge of protection around the truth of the Faith.

ZENIT: Should Protestants and others be concerned about Catholic Marian devotions? Is the poorly catechized Catholic who clings to her Rosary and prays in front of her makeshift shrine to Our Lady of Perpetual Help really in spiritual danger?

Shea: When it comes to Mary, the average Evangelical Protestant is in a position analogous to that of a teetotaler terrified that a sip of wine at communion will transform him into a raging drunken libertine.

Rather than be hyper-focused on the question of whether Catholics honor Mary "too much" and are just about to bow down to Astarte and Isis, the Evangelical would find much more spiritual benefit asking the question "How is it we Evangelicals honor her ‘just enough'?"

When honestly considered (especially against the backdrop of historic Christianity and the practice of the apostolic Church), what he will discover is that it is Evangelicalism that is peculiarly fearful of the woman whom Scripture declares all generations shall called blessed.

Aside from pulling her out of the closet to sing "Round yon virgin, mother and child" she is basically never spoken of among Evangelicals—except to say that Catholics are way overboard about her.

But the reality is that the most Marian Catholics (think John Paul II or Mother Teresa) also tend to be the most Christocentric ones. That's because all real Marian devotion refers us to Christ.

Is that to say it's absolutely impossible for a Catholic to make an idol of Mary? Certainly not.

Human ingenuity in sin is never asleep and we can make an idol out of any creature. On very rare occasions, Mariolatry can happen. But it is to say that Protestant fears on this score are as much in touch with reality as a cradle Catholic of bygone generations who feared that reading the Bible on his own will lead directly to snake handling.

Catholics have, by and large, entered the twenty-first century when it comes to that superstition. But there are still millions of Protestants who subscribe to a grossly superstitious fear of Marian devotion that is a relic of the late nineteenth century. I’ve traveled from Australia to Ireland and have never met a soul who mistook Mary for God. The real blunder about Mary to which some Catholics (the sort who are fascinated with visions, apparitions and private revelations) are prone is this: some mistake her not for another God, but for another Pope, insisting that the bishops have to do this or that because Mary told them to.

For both Mary-wary Protestants and Catholics who imagine the Church should navigate by making Marian Apparitions into a sort of One Woman Magisterium, It's time to move on (or rather back, to the practice of the early Church fathers and a clear understanding of the Church’s magisterial office).

ZENIT: Is there too much attention paid to Mary in today's Church, or too little?

Shea: There's too little attention paid to the Faith, period. So ignorance and apathy about Mary are part of that, I reckon.

ZENIT: Your book is praised by a number of prominent evangelical-Protestant theologians. Is there a growing interest in the figure of Mary among Protestants? Why?

Shea: Starvation makes you hungry. Jesus knew what he was doing when he gave Mary to the Church as our mother. The human soul needs her and Protestantism has been starved of her for going on four centuries.

So there is, in the Providence of God, a growing interest in her, especially among the rising generation of Evangelicals (sometimes referred to as the "Emergent Church").

People are taking a fresh look at the ancient reverence of her in the apostolic Churches and asking "Where is the harm in that?" It's a good question, especially since Mary is, in every healthy expression of Christian spirituality, always immediately pointing us to Jesus.

And, of course, through Mary's unique gifts in Christ, God can minister to hurts in the human soul that are unreachable by other forms of Christian piety.

Evangelicals, for instance, who have lost a child, have found themselves turning to Mary for consolation since she too knows what it is to watch her Son die. That's a mighty powerful bond of compassion and it can overcome the fears of Mary which typically prevail in Evangelical culture.

ZENIT: Archbishop Fulton Sheen once wrote in an essay about the apparitions at Fatima that Mary was the key to bringing Christ to the Islamic world. What do you think of this proposal?

Shea: I think he's on to something.

I have no idea how it will all play out, but I was struck by a conversation I once had with a man from Turkey who emailed me asking for more information about the Catholic Church. He was raised Muslim but was drawn to Christ.

Looking over the vast menu of Christianities available on the web he was very quick to pare it all down to the Catholic Church. Why? "Because you honor Mary as we are taught to do in Islam."

I think there's something mighty important going on in that, just as I have noticed that, among the various folks I have met who have become Catholic from a Jewish background, virtually all of them have had some sort of mystical encounter with Mary.

I'm not sure what that means, but it has always felt significant to me.

She seems to be getting busier as we draw ever closer to That Day.

[Mr Rogers]

"I would be delighted to see Protestants defending Mary and the Virgin Birth!"

Mary was a wonderful woman. The Virgin Birth happened. Deal with it!

And this from John Calvin:

"It is said that Joseph knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born son: but this is limited to that very time. What took place afterwards, the historian does not inform us. Such is well known to have been the practice of the inspired writers. Certainly, no man will ever raise a question on this subject, except from curiosity; and no man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation."

[Mr Rogers]

"There is nothing in the Bible saying that Mary had other children..."

"Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?"" -- Mark 6

[Petronski]

It is said that Joseph knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born son: but this is limited to that very time.

Yet another error of Calvin.

[Ann Archy]

I'm a Catholic and no real Catholic WORSHIPS MARY! We REVERE her as the Mother of God. Why that is so hard to understand is beyond me. Maybe some evil force won't let that get thru to people that aren't Catholic.

The HOLY SPIRIT is how Mary came to be pregnant with Jesus.....what "god" are you talking about? The TRINITY....GOD the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit...EVER ONE! It takes FAITH to believ in The TRINITY and faith to believe in ALL the miracles that they have done.

[Petronski]

Did you know that Hebrew has no words for distant cousins, so that when the Septuagint was translated into Greek, the words brothers and sisters were used?

Did you know that the writers of the New Testament honored this convention?

[Mr Rogers]

...There are obviously passages that mention the bothers and sisters of Jesus...

Another terrible translation.

---

The words used mean brother and sister. They did not use the words for cousins. Frankly, any translation other than ‘brother’ and ‘sister’ would have been completely unacceptable.

[MarkBsnr]

***There is already a lot of misconceptions about Catholic teaching on Mary.

That’s why I posted what I did. There are tens of millions of Catholics with a very strong, even fundamental, belief in Mary’s divinity.***

Really? Name some of them.

***And I have often wondered if this tendency was not derived from some level of fundamental spiritual understanding outside of Catholic, or even Christian, teachings. For it does not seem to be a phenomenon that is going away, but rather growing all over the world.***

Do you have some sort of evidence for this?

[Mr Rogers]

The Gospels were not written in Hebrew. They were written in Greek. The word used was translated brother or brethren 346 of 346 times.

The word used for sister is translated sister 24 out of 24 times.

And no, I do not believe the writers of the New Testament used brother and sister rather than cousin in honor of the Septuagint.

[MarkBsnr]

***You, and people like you, are why millions have walked away from Catholicism. But keep it up - insult, threaten, libel and suppress ever harder. ***

The only ex Catholics that I have ever met are the theologically lazy. The Protestants that have embraced the Faith (our current Pastor is one) have done so because of the theology. This gentleman was a Baptist preacher, graduate of a Baptist seminary. He wound up in the Army side by side with the Catholic religious education officer. The Catholic was reassigned and as a result, he took over the Catholic religious education as well as the Protestant.

It took less than four years for him to convert himself.

***After all, Catholics need to know their place, and raw power to forbid thought on pain of hell has worked for centuries. So why change a good thing?***

Our only place is our recognition as a Creature of God Almighty; and our only duty is to worship Him with all of our hearts and minds and strength, and to love our neighbour as ourselves. That is the good thing that Christ told us to do.

[bdeaner]

I see prayer to a person, and veneration of a person, and giving God’s attributes (sinlessness, omniscience) to a person as worship.

It is not worship. The proper terms is hyperdulia -- a special veneration, or honor, that places her above all creatures as a creature herself, but that does not make her into an idol or a god. We are also asked to honor our mother and father in the 4th commandment. When we honor our mother and father, we do not worship them. Likewise with Mary, honoring or venerating her, is not worshipping her, any more than honor or venerating a parent at a funeral, for example, is worship of the deceased parent.

Also "praying to" Mary is actually asking for her intercession, in the same way we might ask a friend to pray for us. Mary does not answer our prayers --only God can do that--, but like any other human, she can intercede for us with prayers on our behalf, and since she is the Mother of Our Lord, her intercessions are very powerful and effective, as many can testify, including myself.

The Church does not claim Mary has omniscience, so I'm not sure why you say that, but we do claim she was without sin, but not on her own accord, but rather by the special, singular grace of Our Lord so that Christ, as the Word made flesh, would have a spotless vessel, a new Ark of the Convenent, to carry Him.

[stfassisi]

“”The only verse I’ve been told of used to show she was sinless is, “28And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”””

There much more ,dear friend. Our Blessed Mother is written all over the Old Testament and revealed in the New Testament as typology points out.

Luke 1:28 was distorted and mistranslated in protestant Bible’s-She is “Kecharitomene”-Full of Grace -not just highly favored.

Here is a re-post of mine that covers this and describes much much more about The Blessed Mother...

Typology of Old Testament Ark “verses” New Testament Mary who is the “Immaculate” Ark of the NEW COVENANT

A cloud of glory covered the Tabernacle and Ark (Exodus 40:34-35; Numbers 9:15) = Type is
“And the angel said to her: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you’” (Luke 1:35)

Ark spent three months in the house of Obededom the Gittite (2 Samuel 6:11) = Type is
Mary spent three months in the house of Zechariah and Elizabeth (Luke 1:26, 40)

King David asked “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” (2 Samuel 6:9) = Type is
Elizabeth asked Mary, “Why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” (Luke 1:43)

David Leaped and danced before the Lord when the Ark arrived in Jerusalem (2 Samuel 6:14 - 16) = Type is
John the Baptist leaped for joy in Elizabeth’s womb when Mary arrived (Luke 1:44)

Even the Early Christians saw this.

Some examples....

Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296–373) was the main defender of the deity of Christ against the second-century heretics. He wrote: “O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O [Ark of the] Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides” (Homily of the Papyrus of Turin).

Gregory the Wonder Worker (c. 213–c. 270) wrote: “Let us chant the melody that has been taught us by the inspired harp of David, and say, ‘Arise, O Lord, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy sanctuary.’ For the Holy Virgin is in truth an ark, wrought with gold both within and without, that has received the whole treasury of the sanctuary” (Homily on the Annunciation to the Holy Virgin Mary).

Mary is the Daughter of Zion .

The important thing point out is that in the OT (esp. Isiah, Zephaniah, Zechariah, etc..) there are Messianic prophecies known as the Daughter Zion prophecies which tend to have a similar form. They begin with something like, “rejoice, O Daughter of Zion, for the Lord your God is in your midst..” and continue on with Messianic prophecy. The form of Gabriel’s Annuniciation to Mary matches the form of the Daughter Zion prophecies. This indicates on the one hand that these prophesies are fulfilled with the words of Gabriel which announce the Messianic expectation as being fulfilled at that time.

The prophets words were a foreshadowing of the Annuniciation. Gabriel called Mary Kecharitomene, which I believe captures the essence of Daughter of Zion and points beyond it. Basically Mary is being presented in Luke I & II as representing not just the perfect embodiment of the virtues of what it means to be Israel, she is presented as a certain personification of Israel. She stands in as Israel proper, and the language used throughout the narrative suggests the concept of “corporate personality” which is part of Hebrew thought. There are allusions and types in Luke I & II which further support this (themes and structure in the Magnificat, allusions to Abraham to which this concept of corporate personality applies, Simeon, Judith, etc..). Also, this understanding of what Luke I & II presents about Our Lady is an interpretive key to understanding certain passages in a deeper way (for example Simeon’s prophecy).

It also ties in with themes in John’s writings and sheds light upon them. The thematic parallels between John-Rev & Luke-Acts are many so it’s no surprise that this aspect of Luke I & II would mesh well with John.

The Importance of Kecharitomene

Kecharitomene (Luke 1:28), is Mary,s purpose ,it is Her essence and being in the divine supernatural order, the virgin from Nazareth is the “woman” of the Father. As the spouse of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:20), in the divine supernatural order, the virgin from Nazareth is the “woman” of the Holy Spirit. As the mother of the Son (Luke 1:31), in the divine supernatural order, the virgin from Nazareth is the ‘woman’ of the Son. The virgin from Nazareth, clearly then, is “woman” to all the three divine Persons who is GOD. She is aptly the ‘blessed among women’ (Luke 1:42). The Blessed Virgin Mary is the “woman” of GOD. The Son of Man never called her “mother”, not even once while He interacted with humans, because it will not be in keeping with His divinity or with the Oneness and Indivisibility of the Holy Trinity. The virgin from Nazareth is not the mother of the Holy Spirit and she, obviously, is not the mother of the Father

Luke 1:28 Uses the word “Kecharitomene: to describe Mary,s function,essence and being

The original Greek was kecharitomene, the perfect passive participle of charis, grace. St. Jerome translated it into Latin as gratia plena, “full of grace.” In Greek the perfect stem denotes a completed action with a permanent result. Kecharitomene means completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace. The Protestant Revised Standard Version translates Lk 1:28 as “highly favored daughter.” This is no mere difference of opinion but a conscious effort to distort St. Luke’s original Greek text. Had Mary been no more than “highly favored,” she would have been indistinguishable from Sarah the wife of Abraham, Anna the mother of Samuel, or Elizabeth the mother of John the Baptist, all of whom were long childless and “highly favored” because God acceded to their pleas to bear children. But neither Sarah nor Anna is described as kecharitomene in the Septuagint, a translation by Jewish scholars of the Hebrew Scriptures for Greek-speaking Jews in Egypt. Nor does Luke use it to describe Elizabeth. Kecharitomene in this usage is reserved for Mary of Nazareth.

The word “kecharitomene” is a perfect passive participle of the verb “charitoo.”

Some have argued that this says nothing unique about Mary since Saint Stephen, just before he is martyred for the faith, is said to be full of grace in Acts 6:8. However a different word form is used to describe Saint Stephen. In the Greek the conjugated form of “charitoo” that is used to describe him is “charitos” not “kecharitomene” that is used in reference to Mary.

Saint Luke does not use Mary as her name in Luke 1:28 He Changes it to “Kecharitomene” this is a new name , and we all know that name changes in Scripture are significant - Abram (Hebrew “father”) to Abraham (”father of multitudes), Jacob to Israel, Saul to Paul, Simon to Peter, etc.
This describes her very essence and being.
Mary, is named “kecharitomene” - because she is full of grace-full of perfection

Mary was chosen to be the Mother of God, because she was perfect in obeying the will of God. She would not betray her divine husband for the sake of a man. The marriage between Joseph and Mary took place in the divine plan in order to protect the publicity of the holy virgin announced in the Holy Scriptures who would give birth to Emanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14)
Joseph was a chaste man, who respected Mary highly since he was given revelations about Mary and Jesus by the angel of God (Matthew 1:20), he accepted the special holy mission to help the promised Messiah and his mother.

Mary is the New Eve-More typology

Old Testament Eve- Verses New Testament Mary

Created without original sin, Gen 2:22-25 = Created without original sin, Luke 1:28,42

There was a virgin, Gen 2:22-25 = There is a virgin, Luke 1:27-34

There was a tree, Gen 2:16-17 = There was a cross made from a tree, Matt 27:31-35

There was a fallen angel, Gen 3:1-13 = There was a loyal angel, Luke 1:26-38

A satanic serpent tempted her, Gen 3:4-6 = A satanic dragon threatened her, Rev 12:4-6,13-17

There was pride, Gen 3:4-7 = There was humility, Luke 1:38

There was disobedience, Gen 3:4-7 = There was obedience, Luke 1:38

There was a fall, Gen 3:16-20 = There was redemption, John 19:34

Death came through Eve, Gen 3:17-19 = Life Himself came through Mary, John 10:28

She was mentioned in Genesis 3:2-22 = She was mentioned in Genesis 3:15

Could not approach the tree of life Gen 3:24 = Approached the “Tree of Life”, John 19:25

An angel kept her out of Eden, Gen 3:24 = An angel protected her, Rev 12:7-9

Prophecy of the coming of Christ, Gen 3:15 = The Incarnation of Christ, Luke 2:7

Firstborn was a man child, Gen 4:1 = Firstborn was a man child, Luke 2:7, Rev 12:5

Firstborn became a sinner, Gen 4:1-8 = Firstborn was the Savior, Luke 2:34

The mother of all the living, Gen 3:20 = The spiritual mother of all the living, John 19:27

The Early Christians saw this very clear...

“He became man by the Virgin, in order that the disobedience which proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her: wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me according to thy word.’ And by her has He been born, to whom we have proved so many Scriptures refer, and by whom God destroys both the serpent and those angels and men who are like him; but works deliverance from death to those who repent of their wickedness and believe upon Him.” Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 100 (A.D. 155)

“In accordance with this design, Mary the Virgin is found obedient, saying, ‘Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.’ But Eve was disobedient; for she did not obey when as yet she was a virgin. And even as she, having indeed a husband, Adam, but being nevertheless as yet a virgin (for in Paradise ‘they were both naked, and were not ashamed,’ inasmuch as they, having been created a short time previously, had no understanding of the procreation of children: for it was necessary that they should first come to adult age, and then multiply from that time onward), having become disobedient, was made the cause of death, both to herself and to the entire human race; so also did Mary, having a man betrothed [to her], and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, become the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race. And on this account does the law term a woman betrothed to a man, the wife of him who had betrothed her, although she was as yet a virgin; thus indicating the back-reference from Mary to Eve, because what is joined together could not otherwise be put asunder than by inversion of the process by which these bonds of union had arisen; s so that the former ties be cancelled by the latter, that the latter may set the former again at liberty Wherefore also Luke, commencing the genealogy with the Lord, carried it back to Adam, indicating that it was He who regenerated them into the Gospel of life, and not they Him. And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:22 (A.D. 180).

“For as Eve was seduced by the word of an angel to flee from God, having rebelled against His Word, so Mary by the word of an angel received the glad tidings that she would bear God by obeying his Word. The former was seduced to disobey God, but the latter was persuaded to obey God, so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. As the human race was subjected to death through [the act of] a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:19,1 (A.D. 180).
Mary was PRESERVED from all stain of original sin at her creation so that she would be a “New Creation”, the “New Eve”

Lastly,It is NOT fitting that the Mother of God should bring shame to Her divine son.Therefor.God preserved Mary from any personal sin,whether mortal or venial.Through the Grace of God,which was infused into her soul at the moment of her conception,at the very instant He created her soul and united it to her body. He did it in virtue of the merits of Christ.

No descendant of Adam receives the Grace of God except through the merits of Christ.The Mother of Christ was no exception to this law of Grace.Like every other human being who is descended of carnal generation from Adam,the blessed virgin Mary need to be redeemed by the blood of Christ,But wheras every other human being needs to be cleansed from the stain of original sin-which has contracted by way of carnal generation from Adam-the Virgin Mary did NOT need to be cleansed from original sin.Through the Grace of Christ she was preserved from the stain of sin.

Mary is closer to Christ than any other human being,because He took flesh from her and dwelt in her womb.
The closer one is to Christ,the source of all Grace,the greater degree of Grace one receives from Christ. Mary,therefor,received from Christ a fullness of Grace not granted to any other creature.Her Immaculate Conception made her worthy to be Mother of God

[MarkBsnr]

***...There are obviously passages that mention the bothers and sisters of Jesus...

Another terrible translation.

---

The words used mean brother and sister.***

The Greek means brother and sister. The Hebrew thought of the author means closely related (such as cousins). If you like, I can call in some of our Orthodox friends who understand the original Greek and its translation.

[Elsiejay]

I believe that Mary is not a person of the triune divinity (i.e. Godhead), because the Holy Scriptures in and from which we learn what has been revealed about God’s plan do not teach that she is that. What the Roman Catholic scholars may choose to believe and teach regarding Mary may be quite another matter.

[bdeaner]

I can see your point with the analogy between the Bible and the Constitution, but the analogy does not hold when examined more closely.

First of all, the 'right to an abortion' really cannot be derived from the Constitution with any validity based in evidence and logic, if one starts with the premise that a fetus is a human being. If the fetus is a human being--which undeniably, according to natural law, she is--then the fetus has all of the rights attributed to it in the Constitution, and the rights of the mother cannot be placed above them without undermining the basis of the natural law conception of rights that are at the root of the Bill of Rights. A pro-choice philosophy ends up completely undermining the conceptual ground of the Constitution, as has been demonstrated very eloquently and thoroughly by Robert Spitzer in Healing the Culture--highly recommended for anyone interested in pro-life ethics.

In contrast, the purity of the Virgin Mary is a doctrine that, like the Trinity, can be shown to be implicit when the Sciptures are read as a whole, such that her status as the Mother of God, the New Eve, and the Ark of the Convenent integrate OT and NT Scriptures in ways that has great theological depth and infinite significance, once grasped through the many teachings of the Magisterium on Mariology as it is revealed through the Scriptures.

It's just not possible to point to a single verse in the Bible in order to demonstrate the depth and bredth of Catholic Mariology. It's something that takes time to demonstrate, moving from Genesis all the way through Revelations, as I am sure is the case in Shea's new book (which I have not yet read, but will be reading soon). But I do highly recommend Hail, Holy Queen by Catholic convert and former Presbyterian minister, Scott Hahn, which I found very helpful for grasping the very important role of Mary in salvation history, as taught by the Catholic Church. It was a very moving experience that really clinched by decision to enter into full communion with the Church by converting to Catholicism. There is an internal logic such that the puzzle of many Biblical mysteries come to light with a clarity that would simply be lacking were it not for the premise of Mary's role in salvation history, including her status as within sin, through which, using typology as a hermeneutic strategy, Mary can be understood as the New Eve, the Ark, etc.

[Tennessee Nana]

The HOLY SPIRIT is how Mary came to be pregnant with Jesus.....

The TRINITY....GOD the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit...EVER ONE! It takes FAITH to believ in The TRINITY and faith to believe in ALL the miracles that they have done.
___________________________________

No argument here...

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Matthew 1:18

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you: therefore also that Holy thing which shall be born of you shall be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35

I’ve been called a “Triniterian” in the Religion Forum as though it were the N word...

Had never heard that term before...

But yes I believe in the Trinity..I was taught the Trinity as a child..

The Trinity makes more sense than the lack of it..

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

[Mr Rogers]

Since I don't know Greek, I'll post this for your consideration:

"Karl Keating, at least attempted a fuller discussion in his book, Catholicism and Fundamentalism. In speaking of the Greek term, kecaritomene, he alleged:

The newer translations leave out something the Greek conveys, something the older translation conveys, which is that this grace (and the core of the word kecharitomene is charis, after all) is at once permanent and of a singular kind. The Greek indicates a perfection of grace. A perfection must be perfect not only intensively, but extensively. The grace Mary enjoyed must not only have been as "full" or strong or complete as possible at any given time, but it must have extended over the whole of her life, from conception. That is, she must have been in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence to have been called "full of grace" or to have been filled with divine favor in a singular way. This is just what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception holds... (p. 269).

...However, if we look at Mr. Keating's presentation, it seems clear that he is basing his interpretation not primarily upon the lexical meaning of the word caritow, but upon the form it takes in Luke 1:28, that being the perfect passive participle, kecaritomene. Note that Keating alleges that the "Greek indicates a perfection of grace." He seems to be playing on the perfect tense of the participle. But, as anyone trained in Greek is aware, there is no way to jump from the perfect tense of a participle to the idea that the Greek "indicates a perfection of grace." First, participles primarily derive their tense aspect from the main verb of the sentence. In this case, however, we have a vocative participle, and no main verb in what is in actuality simply a greeting. (The fact that the Roman Catholic Church has to attempt to build such a complex theology on the form of a participle in a greeting should say a great deal in and of itself.) What are we to do with the perfect tense of the participle, then? We might take it as an intensive perfect, one that emphatically states that something *is* (see Dana and Mantey, A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament pg. 202), but most likely it is simply emphasizing the certainty of the favor given, just as the perfect passive participle in Matthew 25:34 ("Come, you who are blessed by my Father..."), 1 Thessalonians 1:4 ("For we know, brothers loved by God..."), and 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ("But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord...") emphasizes the completedness of the action as well. No one would argue that in Matthew 25:34, Jesus means to tell us that the righteous have a "perfection of blessedness that indicates that they had this perfection throughout their life, for a perfection must be perfect not only intensively, but extensively" (to borrow from Mr. Keating's presentation). The application of Keating's thoughts to any of the above passages results in foolishness. Hence, it is obvious that when Keating says that the Greek indicates that Mary "must have been in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence to have been called `full of grace' or to have been filled with divine favor in a singular way," he is, in point of fact, not deriving this from the Greek at all, but from his own theology, which he then reads back into the text. There is simply nothing in the Greek to support the pretentious interpretation put forward by Keating and Madrid. Therefore, Madrid's statement, "This is a recognition of her sinless state," falls for lack of support. The angel addressed Mary as "highly favored," for, as he himself said, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God."

[Alex Murphy]

I'm a Catholic and no real Catholic WORSHIPS MARY!

Cardinal Antonio Bacci would like to have a word with you....

....The literature of the Saints is a practical complement to the Gospel, because it shows us how the Gospel should be lived.

The worship of the Saints is an act of veneration (dulia), not of adoration (latria), which can be given only to God. It is wrong to imagine, as many Protestants do, that by praying to and venerating the Saints we subtract something from the homage we owe to God. The veneration of the Saints and the adoration of God are entirely distinct activities. Moreover, the Saints are the faithful servants of God and intercede with Him on our behalf. By venerating and invoking them, we honour the Giver of all holiness. If anyone, on the other hand, were to disregard the worship of God in favour of devotion to the Saints, he would be making a serious mistake. A person who goes into a church and rushes over to a statue of the Blessed Virgin or of one of the Saints, without giving a thought to the living and real presence of Jesus in the Blessed Eucharist, is developing a false and sentimental piety.

[Tax-chick]

Right. Jesus is the Son of Mary. It doesn’t say who are the parents of the other parties.

[Iscool]

There is nothing in the Bible saying that Mary had other children, unless one interprets the phrases about the children of the “woman clothed with the sun” of Revelation to refer to natural-born children of Mary, Mother of Jesus. Which would be weird.

You are mistaken...

Psa 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.

This is Jesus speaking in the book of Psalms...And it coincides with the other verses in the NT that talk about the siblings of Jesus...

[bdeaner]

FYI, the term "pray" literally means 'to ask, beg.' It has the Old English root, fricgan, 'to ask.' It does not imply worship. To 'pray to' Mary is to ask for her intercession. Worship is reserved (or should be reserved) for the Lord, not any creature, no matter how venerated she may be.

Also, asking for saints to intercede for us, through prayer, can be found in Scripture. Here is a good explanation from this website:

As Catholics, we believe in the communion of saints. That means that those Christians who have died are still in communion with Christians still here on earth. They still care about our needs from heaven just as they did while here with us. The Bible gives us clear examples of believers who have left this life still caring for, and interceding for, other believers.

In the Old Testament we read of Judas Maccabeus who related a vision that God had given to him concerning deceased believers. “What he saw was this: Onias, the former high priest…was praying with outstretched arms for the whole Jewish community. Then in the same way another man appeared…Onias then said of him, ‘This is God’s prophet Jeremiah, who loves his brethren and fervently prays for his people and their holy city’” (2 Maccabees 15:12-14). So here we have evidence of deceased believers, a high priest and a great prophet, continuing their intercession for God’s people even after their deaths.

Also in the Old Testament which did not have the full revelation of God (see Hebrews 1:1-2) we find an understanding that one may pray for another. “If a man sins against another man, one can intercede for him with the LORD” (1 Samuel 2:25).

Jesus informs us that the faithful that have left this life are still alive to God. “Moses in the passage about the bush…called the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. All are alive to Him” (Luke 20: 37-38). Jesus graphically demonstrated this truth on the Mount of Transfiguration where he spoke to Elijah and Moses (Matthew 17:3). Elijah may never have died since he was taken up to heaven while apparently still alive (2 Kings 2:11). Moses, however, had certainly died long ago (Deuteronomy 34:5-8). In the New Testament we read of Christians in heaven interceding for those on earth. “Along with their harps, the elders were holding vessels of gold filled with aromatic spices which were the prayers of God’s holy people” (Revelation 5:8).

Catholics believe that the Bible would not so strongly recommend and show the practice of intercessory prayer if it were not of great benefit to us. One such benefit is that the strong faith of the saints can serve to support our weaknesses. The saints can supply what is so lacking in our own faith. Jesus illustrated this by helping someone based on the faith of others. Examples of this can be found in Matthew 8:5-13; 15:22-28; Mark 2:1-5; 9:17-29; Luke 8:41-42, 49-55.

Catholics reason that if we are to pray for one another while here on earth (I Timothy 2:11), and our brothers and sisters who have left this life are alive before God (Mark 9:4), and if the prayers of a holy person are very powerful (James 5:16), and if those Christians in heaven have been made perfect (Hebrews 12:22-23; Revelation 21:27), then it follows that the prayers of the saints in heaven must be infinitely more powerful than the prayers of the sinners here on earth. Therefore, we rightly and wisely seek the intercession of the saints.

Catholics see Mary as the “Queen of the Saints”. She is the greatest of the saints. This is so not just because she is the only mother of the only God, but because of her great faithful obedience to the will of God. “I am the servant of the Lord. Let it be done to me according to your word” (Luke 1:38). She is the humble servant that God has exalted. “For He has looked upon His servant in her lowliness; all ages to come shall call me blessed” (Luke 1:48). Catholics view the Virgin Mary as the most powerful intercessor of all the saints. We believe that she sits at her Son’s right hand (the place of honor, cf. Luke 22:69; Acts 7:56; Hebrews 8:1; 10:12) in heaven and from there makes intercession for her other children (Revelation 12:17; cf. John 19:26-27).

While this belief is not explicitly taught in the New Testament we do have strong support for it in Old Testament typology. Bible scholars agree that the kingdom of David was a type of the heavenly kingdom. The king was a type of Christ. The kingdom of David always had a queen mother who possessed power and authority only second to her son, the king. The queen mother was a type of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In 1 Kings 2:19-20 we read how the queen mother was honored above all others by her son. The king bowed to her in a show of great respect. He commanded that a throne be set up at his right for the queen mother. From there she would intercede for the people of the kingdom with her son. So we can logically expect that Mary as the king of kings’ mother to be in heaven at her Son’s right hand interceding with unique power for her other children, the people of God. We can also expect that her Son will say, “Ask it, my mother, for I will not refuse you.”

Mary’s intercessory powers are graphically shown in John 2:1-11. Here we see Mary intercede for the groom at a wedding feast when the wine ran out. She gives us, what could be the most important advice in the Bible, “Do whatever he tells you” (v. 5). Even though his hour has not yet come (v. 4), Jesus cannot refuse his mother’s request (v. 7f). Our Lord’s statement in v. 4 indicates that when his hour does come his mother can intercede with great power.